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I'm working late (the joy of living at work....uh, I mean, working from home) and therefore trolling the Lurkers boards, so...
I was curious who else out there is in a guild that has been scrambling to get folks that last achievement or three for their 310% mount.
We got our first 4 plagued proto's a couple of weeks ago. Then we had to repeat the Undying run (yeesh) to get a couple more, the 8 man Naxx run, And they all go down together, and finally the 6m Malygos run, which brought us to around 10.
Even tonight, while I'm working, some guildies are off trying for a Sarth+3 repeat (without me, their high TPS drake tank...eh eh eh) to get one last drake for someone that helped us along the way.
Anyone else scrambling? Any memorable moments?
I think the Malygos 6m kills have been the most exciting. Sarth+3 on 10-man was a rush, for sure, but in more of a nerve-wracking (We killed the third drake! Woot! Oh #$%&, watch that wave...don't screw it up...come on guys, its easy now...just don't screw up!) sort of way.
Malygos though....both of our achievement kills showed Deadly Boss Mods reporting exactly a 5 minute 58 second kill.....so on both kills we were anywhere from 1.1 to 1.9 seconds from missing the achievement entirely and losing the raid lock for the week.
Of course, in both kills we had someone die early in phase 3 and last night we had a feral druid that needed the achievement doing horrible cat DPS (he really doesn't DPS often, but I generate a ton more threat than him tanking, so...), but nevertheless....something about rushing to DPS hard enough that he enters phase 2 before the second vortex, DPS'ing efficiently enough that adds die fast in phase 2, and keeping from doing something stupid in phase 3 while watching the clock and judging whether to yell for the raid to all leave their vehicles to wipe before you accidentally kill him after the timer ends.....pretty freaking intense.
Jormuttar is Soo Fat...
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Quote:Anyone else scrambling?
Given how large we are, there's plenty done, plenty that don't care, and plenty still scrambling. One of our Heroic Raid groups got the meta. Pretty much anyone that seriously tried for Raid meta got it, excluding one. Priest who's group got 10 man Sarth+3 last night ... and she had released on the winning fight and didn't get credit.
Trade yourself in for the perfect one. No one needs to know that you feel you've been ruined!
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People got burned out on OS+3D alas, that's the last one I needed. No big deal though, I will push for us to try to get those achievements out of the way quicker this time. We wound up with about 6-8 or so plagued protodrakes.
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No drakes for us, thanks to having warrior & paladin MT's, as well as some rather lackluster dps all around.
~Frag:angry:
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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Quote:No drakes for us, thanks to having warrior & paladin MT's, as well as some rather lackluster dps all around.
~Frag:angry:
Were there any kills of 10-man Sarth +3 by guilds who did nothing but non-heroic content? Just curious.
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Quote:Were there any kills of 10-man Sarth +3 by guilds who did nothing but non-heroic content? Just curious.
I doubt it. Group makeup issues alone would make the fight nearly impossible for a small guild.
Delgorasha of <The Basin> on Tichondrius Un-re-retired
Delcanan of <First File> on Runetotem
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Quote:Were there any kills of 10-man Sarth +3 by guilds who did nothing but non-heroic content? Just curious.
That question is thrown out there a lot on the EJ forums when discussing tier 7 raiding, but I've never seen anyone chime in with a "Yes, my guild did 10 man content only and cleared Sarth+3 multiple times" or whatnot....not like we used to see when folks asked the same question about ZA speed runs, which were definitely doable by Karazhan + badge geared guilds.
Jormuttar is Soo Fat...
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Quote:That question is thrown out there a lot on the EJ forums when discussing tier 7 raiding, but I've never seen anyone chime in with a "Yes, my guild did 10 man content only and cleared Sarth+3 multiple times" or whatnot....not like we used to see when folks asked the same question about ZA speed runs, which were definitely doable by Karazhan + badge geared guilds.
I've wondered on that. I need to do some looking at the theorycrafting sites again but the gear difference between a fully decked out 10 man only ret pally and a decked out 25 man + 10 man ret pally was something like 400 DPS the last time I looked. That's pretty hefty. I'm not sure what other classes would see, and I've not looked too hard, but it matters.
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Quote:That question is thrown out there a lot on the EJ forums when discussing tier 7 raiding, but I've never seen anyone chime in with a "Yes, my guild did 10 man content only and cleared Sarth+3 multiple times" or whatnot....not like we used to see when folks asked the same question about ZA speed runs, which were definitely doable by Karazhan + badge geared guilds.
I kept a pretty close eye on the R&D forum and there were a few guilds who were "true 10 man guilds" who were farming +2 regularly, but all that I saw failed to make the leap to +3.
It's probably a combination of factors that makes that fight especially difficult:
gearing on tanks (for spikes)
gearing on DPS (for the two points at which DPS is completely critical)
and of course the restrictive group makeup where the entire tier of content can easily be completed with 2healer / 2 tank / 6 DPS and this at best is 2 / 3 / 5 where the 2 and 3 are interchangeable, and many have said the easiest is 3 / 3 / 4... though I'm not entirely certain 3 / 3 / 4 is doable for 10 man in 10 man gear. You probably have to stretch to 2 / 3 / 5 or 3 / 2 / 5.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Quote:I've wondered on that. I need to do some looking at the theorycrafting sites again but the gear difference between a fully decked out 10 man only ret pally and a decked out 25 man + 10 man ret pally was something like 400 DPS the last time I looked. That's pretty hefty. I'm not sure what other classes would see, and I've not looked too hard, but it matters.
The difference is pretty dramatic for a prot paladin.
My block-value (high threat, high DPS) gear is a mix of 25 man and 10 man gear and puts me over 1800 unbuffed block value, well into the 2000's raid buffed.
Last night on a few Sarth+3 attempts I sat in for I was turning over around 2400 single target DPS and around 2600-3000 overall DPS when I was tanking random blazes that I AOE taunted off the holy paladin or the first drake (we were going for a burn strat).
In 10 man gear only my DPS would be considerably lower due to not having as large a pool of gear to cherry pick block value gear from.
Jormuttar is Soo Fat...
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Quote:People got burned out on OS+3D alas, that's the last one I needed. No big deal though, I will push for us to try to get those achievements out of the way quicker this time. We wound up with about 6-8 or so plagued protodrakes.
Yep, I even wanted to try doing a cheese kill to get you, me, and Fineas done last night after Maly was taken down, but not enough interest to pull it together...and the plagued proto is best looking I've seen to date, I just like the coloration better than anything else (and wtf is with the black proto looking more brown than black, when I saw Bolty's a while back it just took me aback then).
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative.
Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain.
Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
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Quote:I kept a pretty close eye on the R&D forum and there were a few guilds who were "true 10 man guilds" who were farming +2 regularly, but all that I saw failed to make the leap to +3.
It's probably a combination of factors that makes that fight especially difficult:
gearing on tanks (for spikes)
gearing on DPS (for the two points at which DPS is completely critical)
and of course the restrictive group makeup where the entire tier of content can easily be completed with 2healer / 2 tank / 6 DPS and this at best is 2 / 3 / 5 where the 2 and 3 are interchangeable, and many have said the easiest is 3 / 3 / 4... though I'm not entirely certain 3 / 3 / 4 is doable for 10 man in 10 man gear. You probably have to stretch to 2 / 3 / 5 or 3 / 2 / 5.
In 2/3/5 you have a DPS, either Ret Pally or DK, tanking the fire adds and whelps and having AoE DPS take them out before they can really build up. The 10 man version, done properly (not the burn fight), was all about control, this is why the typical kill order was Tenebron -> Her Whelps when up -> Fire adds if more than a couple -> Vesperon -> Vesperon's Disciple (being tanked by either Shaman, a Hunter pet, a Moonkin, or Warlock Pet) -> Shadron -> Shardon's Disciple (same kind of tanking as Vesperon's Disciple) -> Sartharion.
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative.
Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain.
Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
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Quote:In 2/3/5 you have a DPS, either Ret Pally or DK, tanking the fire adds and whelps and having AoE DPS take them out before they can really build up. The 10 man version, done properly [...blah, blah...]
My point was not to discuss the strategy, but I see I didn't really make the point clearly.
The point was that because 25 man guilds doing 10 man could do 3 / 3 / 4 easier, that became the de-facto standard. Then 10 man guilds approach it that way, but with their DPSers each doing 200-400 DPS less (maybe double that in the critical bloodlust phase) maybe that is no longer the easiest composition. They waste a lot of time trying to do things that way, when, for their raid makeup it might be actually a very difficult raid composition approach.
The mixing of the content tiers potentially created an issue with the way that 10 man guilds approached the fight. That was my point. The specific strategy doesn't really have any place in the thread.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Quote:My point was not to discuss the strategy, but I see I didn't really make the point clearly.
The point was that because 25 man guilds doing 10 man could do 3 / 3 / 4 easier, that became the de-facto standard. Then 10 man guilds approach it that way, but with their DPSers each doing 200-400 DPS less (maybe double that in the critical bloodlust phase) maybe that is no longer the easiest composition. They waste a lot of time trying to do things that way, when, for their raid makeup it might be actually a very difficult raid composition approach.
The mixing of the content tiers potentially created an issue with the way that 10 man guilds approached the fight. That was my point. The specific strategy doesn't really have any place in the thread.
I disagree, the overall fight in 10 man was different in how you approach it in 25 man. 25 man was all about DPS, 10 man was all about control. The 3/3/4 composition was 25 man raiders thinking they could apply more of the 25 man tactics to a 10 man fight that was not ment to be fought the same way. It wasn't that people strictly running 10 man content had less damage output (this is not in dispute), it was that they emulated what 25 man content raiders were doing because the 25 man content raiders believed that the way to complete the fight was to treat it like the 25 man fight, that being DPS was what you needed vs. control which was what you really needed. If more of the 10 man had realized that the fight was about control, you probably would have seen a shift to 2/3/5 instead of the 3/3/4 (you still needed 3 healers for the breaths during the key phase of having Shadron and Vesperon up with their respective Disiples as well).
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative.
Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain.
Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
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Quote:My block-value (high threat, high DPS) gear is a mix of 25 man and 10 man gear and puts me over 1800 unbuffed block value, well into the 2000's raid buffed.
In 10 man gear only my DPS would be considerably lower due to not having as large a pool of gear to cherry pick block value gear from.
I have no BoP 25 man block value gear except Shadow of the Ghoul, but I do have the ilevel 213 BoE boots, but in my block value kit I only push around 1400 block value unbuffed. I am missing 2 major pieces for 10 man block value content, however, T7 helm and legs. T7 10 man content has no block value bracers, boots, or gloves. Neither tier has block value for shoulders yet.
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