Boners

[Lelorinel]

Maybe this has already been done, maybe it hasn't. I'll do it anyways.


Well, Softcore finally got boring, so I went to HC.

In loving memory of King Zen, for those of you who might remember him, I (though somewhat unwisely), chose a boner as my first char.

*heh, oh yeah*

Before I go any further, I think I should explain myself; A boner is a necromancer who uses the bone skills(teeth, bone wall, bone prison, bone spear, bone spirit, bone armor) and only the bone skills.



So, also in loving memory of the vampire lord fluffy(A Modest Destiny webcomic) I named my new necro AMD_Fluffy, a hardcore, ladder, east character.

Now a few deaths later, I'm pretty sure I've got this guy figured out statwise.

The stat breakdown would go as follows.

20 Teeth
1 Bone Armor(don't worry about it, there are plenty of +Skills items to take care of you)
1 Corpse Explosion(a prereq)
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone spear
20 Bone Prison
20 Bone Spirit
=102 Skill points used out of 111, so you get 9 points to do whatever you want with(golem, more bone armor, a few curses)

Now some of you may ask, why max out these crappy bone walls and prisons? All that matters is bone spear and spirit!

But of course, we then have synergies!
For example, bone spirit gets +6% damage/slvl of teeth, bone spear, bone wall, and bone prison. So with 20 points into each of those, that equals +480% damage!

Now if a level 20 Bone spirit does 380-413(taken from the arreat summit) then it would deal(after synergies) 1824-1982.4

While bone spear has lower damage, only dealing 205-218 at level 20, it gets 7% instead of 6% per point, gaining +560% damage with full synergies for a total of 1148-1220.8

Now teeth really shines here, getting a whopping 15% extra damage per point, getting in grand total +1200% damage! Now if they do 23-31 base(boo!) they deal 276-372 per tooth, firing 21 teeth at level 20, it makes a nice tool for crowd control.

Note this is all before +Skills items, and the project in still in progress, but so far AMD_Fluffy is dead and Fluffy_Reborn is at level 16, doing quite well for himself in act 2.

I'll keep you guys posted

-Lel

[adeyke]

=102 Skill points used out of 111, so you get 9 points to do whatever you want with(golem, more bone armor, a few curses)

There are only 110 skill points possible. I don't think it's really meaningful to assume your character will be slvl 99 and to consider those remaining skill points "extra." Also, if you did go with a golem or curses, you'd be breaking your self-imposed restriction of only bone skills.

Now if a level 20 Bone spirit does 380-413(taken from the arreat summit) then it would deal(after synergies) 1824-1982.4

The AS already includes 1 point in all pre-req synergies. The actual damage for level 20 bone spirit is 340-369.

Your calculations are also wrong even if the 380-413 was correct. The synergies give +480, so it'd be 5.8 times the base damage, not 4.8 times it.

So if it was 380-413 damage, it'd be 2204-2395 with the synergies. In reality, it's 1972-2140.

While bone spear has lower damage, only dealing 205-218 at level 20, it gets 7% instead of 6% per point, gaining +560% damage with full synergies for a total of 1148-1220.8

Skipping explanations, your bone spear would really do 1267-1346.

Now teeth really shines here, getting a whopping 15% extra damage per point, getting in grand total +1200% damage! Now if they do 23-31 base(boo!) they deal 276-372 per tooth, firing 21 teeth at level 20, it makes a nice tool for crowd control.

299-403 damage per tooth.

[ShadowHM]

Hi

I cannot comment on the hardcore aspect of this build, but I have seen a softcore version of it in action. :D

And he is one powerful dude ! Watching him in the Hell Icy Cavern taking out those nasty bosses was a treat. :)

He ran into trouble in one aspect. He originally had a Holy Freeze mercenary but the poor guy kept dying because he all too often ended up on the wrong side of the bone walls.

So he substituted a Cold Arrow Rogue (he even went back to Normal to hire her and went through the excruciating effort to level her up to 80+) and was much happier with her.

May you have much fun.

[Assur]

Hi

I'll just say one word: Marrowwalk

good karma

[adeyke]

I'll just say two words: bug exploitation.

[Bob the Beholder]

Yeah, I've got one of those going right now, but in single player, in Nobbie's mod. (yeah, yeah--I reverted to occasional expansion play, to those of you who read my topic).

Seems interesting. Though, without warmth it seems that I'm going to have to pump a whole lot of energy. I had a sorceress with blaze and meteor get by with maybe 60 through normal, but CalciumDeficit (that's what I named him!) has almost that much, and is gulping down mana potions like crazy; he's just in Act II, also.

Man, nine points in warmth makes a huge difference. I remember just a few minutes ago, staring at CD's mana orb, wondering why it's regenerating soo... veeery... sloowlyyy...

[Guest]

I've played this build repeatedly. My advice is to forget Marrowwalks. The best strategy I've tried is to cast bone prison around everything in sight then use bone spear. Having to work from a charged item would be intollerable. Besides, the strength requirement on the marrowwalks is about 60 points higher than you'll need for your other gear. Better to save the points for vitality.

Another thing: Don't pump teeth early on. Save that for later--pump bone wall, bone spear and bone prison first. Bone wall and bone prison have a stupidly high synergies with bone armor, so that a 1 point bone-armor can absorb several hundred damage at full synergies.

Finally, a single point on clay golem is a life-saver. Use him to scout ahead, pause advancing hordes, and distract things while you put up bone walls/prisons. This build would be much harder without the golem.

Cheers,

Jimbowe

[ShadowHM]

These boots are one of the v1.10 Elites.

Defense: 183-204 (varies)(Base Defense: 59-67)
Required Level: 66
Required Strength: 118
Durability: 16
Assassin Kick Damage: 69-118
+170-200% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+20% Faster Run/Walk
+1-2 To Skeleton Mastery (Necromancer Only) (varies)
+10-20 To Strength (varies)
+17 To Dexterity
Regenerate Mana 10%
Heal Stamina Plus 10%
Half Freeze Duration
Level 33 Bone Prison (13 Charges)
Level 12 Life Tap (10 Charges)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.10 or later)

We know that a Necromancer wearing these boots, who has placed no points in Bone Prison, gets a whalloping bonus to all other Bone Skills.

We know that this is A GAME BUG.

Could we please stop making posts advising Necromancers to exploit this known bug?

/rant

I know full well that this is a site devoted to comprehension of game mechanics. But now that we comprehend this particular mechanism, I would like to see Lurkers take the high road and not recommend abusing it.

/plea

[Sir_Die_alot]

good karma

bad karma

[Caaroid]

Hello

Just an advice from a fellow horny player: get revives. Yes, a single point in golem is enough, but my (otherwise rather powerful) boner found, that wasting another 3 for revives makes your life a lot easier. And then you could wear your marrows proudly for the +skills, without exploiting a bug.

So yes, MARROW FOR NECROS!

besides, in ALL pvm situations, and most PVP situations, the ability to cast high-level prisons (pratically for free) are unmatched by the increased power of the destructive spells, so even if you're nasty and want to go bug exploring, do it somewhere else ;).

Final advice (especially for HC, although I play SC): sell your soul for a Guardian Angel. My necro uses it with Thundergod, Homunculus and a wizspike (too poor for a HotO), and he has not died outside PVP (and only to blizz sorces and Enigma boners within PVP). This build, with this equipment is truly, totally unstoppable by anything the game has to throw at you.

Happy hunting

[Lelorinel]

Thank you adeyke for the correction, I wasn't aware of that little detail...

I'm going to have to edit the first post a little bit.

Personally, I'd put all my *extra* skill points into bone armor, you never know...

And no, I don't plan on using marrowwalks any time soon.

[Assur]

The best strategy I've tried is to cast bone prison around everything in sight then use bone spear.  Having to work from a charged item would be intollerable.

Hi

I thought that bug exploitation was legit in PvM, since that does seem to be against the ethos of the LL: Sorry!

@Jimbowe

- I had planned on encasing the monsters in Boneprison and then hitting them with Iron Maiden since that isn't as mana hungry, is that viable? As to using charged items, I see nothing wrong with that in principle, my BF Assa enjoyed hitting everything in sight with Meteor, even though it was rather expensive. Or are you only against Marrowwalk and Carrion Wind kind of use?

good karma

[ShadowHM]

As to using charged items, I see nothing wrong with that in principle, my BF Assa enjoyed hitting everything in sight with Meteor, even though it was rather expensive. Or are you only against Marrowwalk and Carrion Wind kind of use?

Hi

Answering in lieu of Jimbowe, since it was I who posted the rant:

I don't have any problem with using charged items. :) Costly, but fun to use.

My problem is the deliberate exploitation of the bug. :angry: If you don't know about it or make the choice not to exploit it, you will pump Bone Prison or Poison Creeper respectively, in order to gain the synergies. And when you do that, the charges on the Boots/Ring will do nothing other than be available as charges.

[Bob]

er, with the new skeleton buff (there was a buff, wasn't there? I'm sure they seem a lot more powerful) couldn't you just get skels instead of revives? no limited duration, an extra 2 points to put into them (none in mages or using skel as a prereq) and it sort of fits in with the bone theme.

just a fleating thought.

-Bob

[Caaroid]

Hello

Well, as you no doubt guessed (correctly :), I tried to use skeletons. However, single-point skeletons (+3 to summoning skills here) do not last a second in hell. With a +2 skel mastery marrow, my revives nearly always last until they timeout, in essence saving my merc.
(This is rather silly, with 90% resall 95% light res, a beefy bone armor really nothing can touch me... it's just that I like to have a merc, and my merc dies without the revives ;))

So no, skeletons just won't do it; however you can save that 1 skill point to skeleton mastery by using marrowalk.
More power to teeth!

[patriach]

Hi,

Coincidentally, I'm also making a bone necromancer. Which mercenary is best suited for this buid?
Has anyone tried thorn + bone prison? It sounds like a good combo. I'm using a prayer mercenary but if thorn works with bone prison/wall, I might switch.

Also, the lack of life tap curse (can't even spare 2 points to learn it :ph34r:) means it is harder to keep a melee type merc alive. Is it advisable to sacrifice a few points from synergies, invest them into revive, and then hire the rouge merc? Has anyone tried to make a bone necro without any points into revive?

[Bun-Bun]

I'm trying one now with a Defiance merc. No summons in the mix at all, so I need a durable tank. Holy freeze might work as well, although I've not had as much luck with them as some folks. I'm not using the Bone Wall/Prison spells as much as I ought; if I did, Thorns might be a valid choice, but I have no experience with that.

I'm economizing on curses, as Lower Resist no longer helps the Bone spells.

[Shade]

Hi,

Coincidentally, I'm also making a bone necromancer. Which mercenary is best suited for this buid?
Has anyone tried thorn + bone prison?  It sounds like a good combo. I'm using a prayer mercenary but if thorn works with bone prison/wall, I might switch.

Nope, it wouldn't work. Bone walls/prisons considered as neutral monsters in 1.10 patch. I.e. you can not unsummon it, you can not damage it, and they are do not benefit from any friendly aura.

As for merc, I personnaly prefer rogues. Since monsters (act bosses also) spend most time trapped in Bone Prison, Act2 and Act5 merc prove ineffective to me. They just stand outside Bone Prison doin' nothing.

Also, the lack of life tap curse (can't even spare 2 points to learn it :ph34r:) means it is harder to keep a melee type merc alive. Is it advisable to sacrifice a few points from synergies, invest them into revive, and then hire the rouge merc? Has anyone tried to make a bone necro without any points into revive?

I prefer Decrepify. Life Tap is useful, but since nodoby will hit you or your merc, it wouldn't do you anything good.
Of course, Hell Ancients ignore Bone Prisons and Walls, so Revives prove useful here.
And there is no need to waste skill points on curses for this build. Find yourself non-magic wand with (for example) +to bone spear +to decrepify +to else, make DolIo runeword from this wand, and enjoy.

[Guest]

I may have been misunderstood, so let me clarify.

I rate Marrowwalks as "Intollerable" for this build for a practical reason--there just aren't enough charges on the darn things. In a typical battle I cast quite a lot of prisons, especially in outdoor areas with extra monsters deciding to come in from off screen after they see the first prison go up.

So the point I was trying to make is that for a bones-only necro, exploiting the Marrowwalk bug results in a less powerful character than just investing directly in bone prison.

I suppose that for a hybrid summoner/bone-spearer the Marrowwalk bug might look attractive (at least to those who don't see any ethical issues in exploiting a bug...) But that's a completly different build that wouldn't need to use the charges.

As for using Iron Maiden on the imprisoned foes....feel free to prove me wrong, but I suspect that would be awfully slow. I played a thorns paladin long ago--he killed slower than I wanted, and had a much higher reflected damage ratio than Iron Maiden. And back then there weren't any physical immunes.

Still, perhaps you could get a thorns merc and make a go of it. You'd need to user other means on ranged and elemental attackers. This is assuming, of course, that thorns affects bone prisons.

Cheers,

Jimbowe

[Fragbait]

Hi,

Might be a bit slow for many hell monsters:

damage:
Name Norm Night Hell
Moon Lord 15-34 40-76 74-139
Night Lord 15-33 40-61 74-111
Blood Lord 15-34 40-76 74-139
Hell Lord 17-38 41-62 75-112
Death Lord 18-40 42-63 76-115

hitpoints:
Name Norm Night Hell
Moon Lord 516-689 3309-4137 10507-17511
Night Lord 494-661 3309-4137 10507-17511
Blood Lord 516-689 3309-4137 10507-17511
Hell Lord 612-814 3472-4341 10920-18201
Death Lord 687-920 3636-4545 11128-18546

calculations:
Average damage(hell difficulty): ~90
Average hitpoints(hell difficulty): ~14300
Assuming IM slvl 9 (400%damage returned) ~360 damage returned.
Number of hits needed to kill: ~40
Assuming 2 hits/second: ~20 seconds.

resumee:
->which is quite long for only one monster. (these are one of the toughest, though)
So yep, this might be a bit slow in hell, even without taking physical resistance into consideration.


Greetings, Fragbait