On hit effects and strafe/multi/guided

[Guest]

Let's say I'm spraying multi into a mob at about 8 arrows per shot. Logically, my 5% chance to cast amp ought to be going off pretty often, but it doesn't seem to. If I switch to strafe--which fires about half as many arrows per second--it seems to go off a lot more. The same for knockback--it seems to work more often while I'm strafing or using guided than when I'm using multi.

Now, I had thought that the arrows from Strafe and Multi were identical, but what I think I'm seeing in play is that they are not.

Am I just imagining this?

Or are the on-hit effects treated differently for the different arrow types?

I suppose the answer might be different for the different kinds of on-hit effects--Chance-To-Cast, Knockback, Crushing-Blow, Freezes Target, Blind's Target, etc.

The only thing I can think of is that strafe always fires at a target, while multi fires in the general direction of my cursor--so perhaps strafe is just better at hitting, even though it's getting me less arrows per second. But I don't think that's right, because once I see amp go off multi tears down mobs faster than strafe.

:blink: :blink: :blink: (Dazed and confuzed....)

Jimbowe

[adeyke]

Multi-shot was nerfed for 1.10.

Now, only the center two arrow of a multi-shot spread are able transmit most effects. The affected effects include, but are not limited to:
knockback
CTC on striking
open wounds
crushing blow
freezes target
hit blinds target

Effects that are carried on all arrows (or don't need to be carried on arrows) include:
CTC on killing
deadly/critical strike
RIP
PMH
damage

This applies only to MS.

[Caaroid]

Thanks Adeyke, I nearly made a multizon...

[Fragbait]

Hi,

I think this issue's got something to do with the effects that can be carried by both multi and strafe. I think that while strafe arrows each can carry all special effects (chance to cast xy, exploding arrows, deadly strike etc.) multishot only carries these loads on the main arrow (and maybe the next 2 arrows to the main arrow, I don't know for sure) that you would also be shooting when using the standard attack.
This is why you experienced the effect that strafe was much better at cursing the foes with amp, but then again, multi was faster at finishing them off. It hasn't got something to do with not-hitting, it's rather not-carrying...
For a more detailed and technical explanation, just ask adeyke. He seems to know pretty much...

Greetings, Fragbait


EDIT: D'oh! I really was too slow this time - everything's already answered long before. Oh well...

[adeyke]

Exploding arrow only affects normal attack. It has no effect if you use a bow skill.

The best I can give for a technical explanation is that MS was given the property "triggered" with paramater 2. In other words, only 2 of the MS arrows can trigger various things.

[Roo]

Multi-shot was nerfed for 1.10.

True enough, but you can successfully un-nerf MS to a considerable degree by positioning and attacking monsters in any of the 4 onscreen corners.

Having the targeting gauntlet in a corner produces an extremely tight Multi Shot spread. This tight spread largely gets back to the old days of autohit Multi Shot, since you will now have multiple arrows passing through the same target. While the game limits Multi Shot to one hit per target per volley, you will get many more chances for that hit.

It's a pretty small tactical adjustment to make in game and probably violates the spirit of the "designer's balance adjustment", but it works well.

[adeyke]

I believe you only get one to-hit check regardless of how many arrows visually hit a target,

[Ruvanal]

I believe you only get one to-hit check regardless of how many arrows visually hit a target,

It should be doing the to-hit checks until there is a successful one that starts the NextHit-NextDelay effect. There is also a minimum arc spacing on the MS missiles that are fired. This in it self will limit the number of missiles that can be having hit chances on a single target.

Another point is that if your to-hit chance is low, then you will only get minimal benefit from Pierce as you need to have a successful hit for the missile to continue on. Therefore if you are trying to use this technique to offset a poor to-hit chance, most of the missles will get used up on only the first few targets. Depending on what the situation is this may not be a bad trade off, but it is sort of self balancing.

[Butch27]

I've never seen this mentioned before, and this seems to be a logical place to ask.

Does a barb's WW not trigger CTC effects? My whirler uses a Bonehew, and the bonespear never goes off, despite the 50% chance to cast. It's not a huge issue, but it would be nice, you know.

[adeyke]

No CTC effects of any kind (striking, attacking, killing, levelling, dying or getting hit) will trigger while you're in a WW animation.

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to have to ponder this for a bit to decide how to improve my strategy.

:)

Jimbowe

[Caaroid]

Ok, let's make this thread the "trigger" thread.

Do exploding arrows / freezing arrows SPLASH damage trigger effects as in the old days, or shall I forget the Delirium for my sorceress? It feels splash does not trigger anymore, is this the case?

[adeyke]

The splashes of exploding/freezing/immolation arrow don't trigger CTC effects (neither CTC on strking, nor CTC on kill). The only thing I know they do transfer is damage of the appropriate type (cold for freezing, fire for exploding/immolation). Also, RIP works with it, because it doesn't have to be carried on an arrow. It works even on sorc spells.