Rest State

[Cryptic]

Well, this is my last post in the thread. I am certain that no one will have their minds changed by the other side, regardless of what is said, so I will stop bothering to post my thoughts on the matter. :)

I remain convinced that the rest state will be helpful to my play experience. It won't benefit me personally, since I tend to play my game of choice 30-45 hours per week, depending on work and relationship. But it will help many of my friends who are casual players to level more quickly, and will lessen the disparity problems our groups experienced in EQ and DAoC.

But I know anyone who doesn't take a social stance will never be convinced ... so I'm not sure why I'm expending so much energy trying to show the other side of things, when no one wants to see it. Perhaps I just wish that other people could be happy for those who are benefitting, instead of angry? I'm not sure. Regardless, I have nothing more to say on the matter.

Have fun all.
B)

[TheDragoon]

If they play on the other days, they not only have to catch up, they'll need to get ahead since they'll drop to the "normal" state and not be getting experience as fast as the rest when everybody gets together on Sunday evening. If the only time they can try to get caught up is Saturday and earlier on Sunday, they are really screwed since they will probably *start* the Sunday evening game either "normal" or close to it.

I'm not sure you can really make this argument right now. Sure, you might be right, but you have just as good a chance of being wrong unless you actually start plugging in the numbers or testing it yourself. This analysis will vary depending upon the given implementation/balance design of the rest state. So unless you can plug in solid numbers into the way the rest system works or have actually tested just this case, then you're really just waving your hands right now and hoping your logic fits the way the system works.

[Bolty]

Well, this is my last post in the thread.  I am certain that no one will have their minds changed by the other side, regardless of what is said, so I will stop bothering to post my thoughts on the matter.  :)

Yeah, I'm pissing people off too, because I'm against the vocal minority :)

But it will help many of my friends who are casual players to level more quickly, and will lessen the disparity problems our groups experienced in EQ and DAoC.

I don't mean to pull you back into the conversation, but I still keep hearing this. The Rest State is not about "pulling up" others or making it easier for them to "catch up" to others. It's ludicrous - the casual gamer will never catch up to the powergamer, even with a 500% bonus. Maybe even a 1000% bonus. Because, as I'm finding, the powergamers have other advantages over the casual gamers than time - they have the knowledge of how to level up quickly, find the best loot, and get the most exp for their time spent. My chars nowadays have advance knowledge of what quests there are, where to get them, where the best places are to level, etc etc.

No, Rest State is simply about giving a casual gamer a better sense that their time in the game is productive. That they can log in for 5 hours a week and level up. That they can actually play such a short time every week and actually see that blue bar of theirs make progress. It's all really down to that. The bonus exp provided by resting allows the casual gamer to have a sense of accomplishment with their limited time.

When the game goes final, the majority of players will like the rest state system, since the majority of players will not put in 50 hours a week. But you can bet that vocal minority will howl to the moon forever, trying to get rid of it. Blizzard knows this, and will NOT remove it - in fact, I have heard that they consider it one of their top innovative features of the game. It will be tweaked. But it will not disappear.

-Bolty

[TheDragoon]

No, Rest State is simply about giving a casual gamer a better sense that their time in the game is productive. That they can log in for 5 hours a week and level up. That they can actually play such a short time every week and actually see that blue bar of theirs make progress. It's all really down to that. The bonus exp provided by resting allows the casual gamer to have a sense of accomplishment with their limited time.

Yeah, Blizzard has long said that the rest system was not designed to make it so that casual players can keep up with power gamers. Nor is it really designed to make it so that the gap between the power gamers and the casual player is reduced (though I think that's a nice side effect). Rather, just as Bolty points out, it's to just let the casual players advance more quickly so that those who enjoy seeing progress will get to have more fun via seeing more progress. :)

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm not sure you can really make this argument right now.

Sure I can. As a matter of fact, I did. Now, since you are claiming that I might be wrong (which is entirely possible, given that I am using how Blizzard thinks their game works -- a very dangerous basis for any argument), why don't you (for a change) plug in the numbers and/or test it. But, you know what. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!! Because the original argument, that the rest state will help someone catch up if they miss one week of a weekly session has been demolished. And once again, *reasoned thinking* instead of gut feel show that the rest state is a POS.

--Pete

[TheDragoon]

Now, since you are claiming that I might be wrong (which is entirely possible, given that I am using how Blizzard thinks their game works -- a very dangerous basis for any argument), why don't you (for a change) plug in the numbers and/or test it.

For a change eh? Get off your high horse. You're not the only one that is posting about these issues. Just because I don't feel the need to post a response (whether it has any actual content to it or not) to anyone who has something positive to say about the system doesn't mean I haven't been giving my input.

As for your "reasoned thinking" you really were waving your hands and so I said I didn't think you were making a compelling argument in the least. I don't think the burden is on me in this. If you want to make a mathematical argument, then give us some concrete examples rather than waving your hands and making inaccurate guestimates on how it might work.

[Nystul]

No, Rest State is simply about giving a casual gamer a better sense that their time in the game is productive.

I wonder though, how much more productive will that time actually be? Given the current implementation, if we assume the game is balanced for 150% and casual gamers are always at 200%, that's a 33% gain in experience from mobs. For every 3 kills, you get one free. But, it doesn't apply to the quest experience. I really don't know what portion of experience you'd typically get from quest rewards, but it is certainly a significant amount. Let's say about a third of your experience comes from quests, then that 33% gain is actually more like 20% of your total experience.

By the time you translate that to levels, which slow down as you get more of them, it won't amount to much. In the time he would previously need to hit level 20, he might be around 22 (maybe only 21). Of course, after months of playing at "200%", he may very well be convinced that without the rest state he would only be level 10 or 11! So yes, I suspect that the rest state will be quite popular with casual gamers, but I don't think that it will actually make the game any more fun for them.

The numbers are subject to change, of course, but I wouldn't count on Blizzard making the system much stronger. They would have to deal with that "vocal minority" that feel like they are getting penalized for playing the game. Plus, if they made the system powerful enough to be meaningful, it would really screw up game balance.

[TheDragoon]

How often have you seen people upgrade their weapons or armor for something that is 20% better. 20% can be a lot for some people. :)

[Jarulf]

I remain convinced that the rest state will be helpful to my play experience.  It won't benefit me personally, since I tend to play my game of choice 30-45 hours per week, depending on work and relationship.  But it will help many of my friends who are casual players to level more quickly, and will lessen the disparity problems our groups experienced in EQ and DAoC.

Doesn't that mean that they have to skip many things in the game since they "rush" thorugh it to keep up with you that play more quests and so on? Also, currently, they will be lacking skill points since they reach the same level faster and still be less good and so on.

If one want a system were people can always play together regardless of how much one play, the only real solution is a system were one enter ones level each time one want to play, hardly good.

The "best" in my opinion would simply be that each player set their own difficulty level or whatever, that will dictate things such as how much exp they get. That way, each one can chose how to play instead of having the game force them down a specific road that can't be affected.