Minor ? re Cursed items found on the ground

[Attika]

For the third time now while playing Ironman I've found cursed items in the Church that were lying on the ground in "special" rooms (no foes, just that item lying there).

According to Jarulf's Guide 3.8.3, the chance for said items to be UN-cursed is 100% (see below)

"Below is listed if a source can give out cursed items, and if it can, how large the chance is compared to non cursed prefixes and suffixes.

Unique monsters: No
Weapon Rack: No
Armor Rack on dlvl 5 and 13-15: No
Armor Rack on dlvl 6-9: 16.5%
Armor Rack on dlvl 10-12: 33.0%
Adria, Griswold, Pepin and Wirt: No
On the ground: No
Other: 33.0% "

According to Jarulf's then, "On the ground" should not give out cursed items.

Yet I've found the following in Church on the ground in those special rooms:

Buckler of Atrophy -5 Dex (Single Player Diablo)
Amulet of the Dark -40% Light Radius (Multiplayer Diablo)
Rags of the Pit -1 All Stats (Single Player Hellfire)

Anyone else notice this? Makes you think twice when playing IM and thinking about identifying an item found on the ground, now that it seems that they can be cursed.

Attika

PS More anecdotal evidence

Multiplayer Diablo IM game: ring in room on ground -- Ring of Trouble -8 all
Single Player Hellfire: Cloak on ground in room on Dlvl One -- Rusted Cloak

[danifilth]

are you shure you havent killed a monster and then found it on ground :rolleyes:
i never found items only lying on ground but when u say it, it will be a mistake in jarulfs guide
im shure he neither found a cursed item on ground or he was to lazy to fix it

[Smoketest]

He also states in 3.8.2 under "Is it Magical?" that the chance for items lying on the ground is likely less than 100% outside of Hell, indicating that he didn't have any hard figures. (My guess is about 50% chance.) So it's possible that he, or one of the many people who contributed to the guide, didn't find cursed items, or forgot they did, when submitting information. Even Jarulf says the guide isn't 100% accurate.

I think it's consistent that items on the ground also have a chance of having cursed affixes. I'm not sure when the last time was that I found such an item, but I won't go so far as to say I've never found a cursed item just laying on the ground. I also don't have Hellfire installed, so it could be that it modified things a little bit.

[Smoketest]

Anyone who's ever paid attention while playing will tell you that yes, items can and do spawn on the ground. This usually happens in small rooms with a single entrance. The room may be empty or have piles of gold or barrels, in addition to the item or items.

Jarulf worked hard on the guide, and many people sent information to him to help make the guide more complete. If something is missing, you can't blame him alone. He worked on the guide as long as necessary, updating it when Hellfire came out, and again when the final patch (1.09) for D1 came out. Then he moved on, as one would expect, to other things. Given the sheer size of the guide, its high level of completeness in covering nearly every topic, the number of useful tables and mathematical formulae, and the time spent writing, updating and editing the guide, one can hardly call Jarulf "lazy".

(Edited to correct a few things I'd forgotten.)

[LemmingofGlory]

Now, beyond the church, I can't recall the last time I saw a spawned item laying on the ground in the Catacombs, the Caves or in Hell. I've seen potions, elixirs and quest items, but no other items.

Floor item generation also happens in rooms in Cats, Caves, and Hell. In fact, on dlvl 15 I'm always extra careful to examine any seemingly empty room, because sometimes through the room appears empty, within there's a ring or amulet lying innocently on the floor. Most times, though, the item's less exciting than a piece of jewelry.

One time I found TFoS randomly generated on the floor of a dlvl 1 room. I believe my character already had a TFoS at the time, but I was happy all the same.

-Lemmy

[Smoketest]

Ah, I like TFoS too.

Looks like I'll have to close the curtains/crank the gamma to see better in the lower levels. Not to mention start a diet of fish to improve my memory. :D Anyway, thanks for the verification.

[Guest]

asdf

[Jarulf]

I was never 100% sure on items on ther ground and their generation since I didn't look at dungeon generation in completeness. So I might have missed special items placed on the ground (are there random items on ground on levels?).

[Smoketest]

So I might have missed special items placed on the ground (are there random items on ground on levels?).

The items that spawn are usually inside 'rooms', be they made from stone wall or wood fence. The only exceptions are some quest items that can spawn almost anywhere on a given Dlvl. Examples are the Fungal Tome, Mushroom patch (container), Slain Hero (container) and Golden Elixir. I'm guessing these follow similar placement rules as chests, but not barrels, which can be placed right next to a wall and thus, especially in caves, can be hidden from view. These quest items may have even tighter restrictions on how much open space is required for placement, to guarantee that the player will see them if he/she is in the area.

[Attika]

Jarulf, yes, in Diablo v1.09 (and earlier) items do generate on the ground and on all the levels of the dungeon except 16 (I believe).

The thing is, when these items generate inside a room (Church and Cats) or a corral (Caves) or a spikey room (Hell) they are often magical. Not always, but often. Then your guide claimed (3.8.3) that there was a 100% chance that they would NOT be cursed (see quoted reference above). I was merely pointing out, and asking for anecdotal verification, that these said items can be cursed. I've seen this in Diablo Single Player, Diablo Multiplayer, and Hellfire also.

Smoketest, Jarulf's statement: "Is it magical?" in 3.8.2 has nothing to do with what I'm asking here.

The Guide states that an item generated on the ground is NOT 100% magical. This is well-know.

I'm saying that the Guide _does_ say if the item is magical, it is non-cursed. And that is incorrect.


Attika

PS Jarulf, these items are not "special" in the sense that they are quest related or such. They simple are items generated as your Guide suggests they should be: base and magical prefixes and suffixes and all. The three items I found were Rags, an Ammy, and a Buckler, all cursed (see above).

[Smoketest]

Smoketest, Jarulf's statement: "Is it magical?" in 3.8.2 has nothing to do with what I'm asking here. 

I'm saying that the Guide _does_ say if the item is magical, it is non-cursed.  And that is incorrect.

Sorry for getting off-track. I do that sometimes when I'm trying to draw comparisons, or what have you.

It makes sense to me that if the item can be magical, it can also be cursed, since 'cursed' affixes are only possible on magic items. I doubt the game makes a special case for these items because they are spawned on the ground instead of in a chest or in a monster's inventory.

All this takes is a simple correction to my local copy of the guide. :)

[Nystul]

It makes sense to me that if the item can be magical, it can also be cursed, since 'cursed' affixes are only possible on magic items. I doubt the game makes a special case for these items because they are spawned on the ground instead of in a chest or in a monster's inventory.

The game does make a special case like this in many cases though. You will never see a cursed affix at the vendors in town, nor will you ever get a cursed item from a boss, etc. So most of the cases in the section Attika is talking about are indeed correct.

[DragOoN69]

Jarulf's Guide 3.8.3 ? where?

[Fragbait]

No Tinker

[Harlequin]

Jarulf's Guide 3.8.3 ? where?

They are referring to the chapter, not the version.