Cheating in Diablo II

[Iknowwhen]

Saw the other post about the FC werebear and want to give my 2 cents on cheating also.

Cheating could be :

1. dupes
2. bots
3. map hack
4. trade hack, PK hack, pickit and many other wellknown hacks.
5. baal run, cow run, triv run, tris run bloody run, P/M run, rune run and etc.
6. leeching and MF, see above.
7. mules.
8. D2loader, or you own 2 cd-keys and you play with 2 computers, or maybe you call your friend to enchant you when you started at lvl 1.
9. trading - I will never trade my stuff for something thats worth less to me, so am I cheating other players? I think so.
10. skip the quests and complete it later when you are in high level.

and many more maybe...

well, I am not saying dupes and bots and hacks are equal to the rest, since the rest are actually allowed by Bnet and thats basically consider "legit" by the game (well, maybe not for D2loader, not sure about this one).

But I do believe if you will use the word cheating, you have to at least consider all of the above.

And without 7-10, do you think you will miss some fun of this game which you will never tasted by only play the game straight from normal act 1 to hell act 5?

In no way I support dupes or bots or hacks, but my point is, hey, whatever fit you the best, go for it, its just a game, if the way you have played it can give you the most fun, then you have probably find the right way to play it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Chaerophon]

You should have stayed under the bridge; I think that this one's about played out.

...you own 2 cd-keys and you play with 2 computers, or maybe you call your friend to enchant you when you started at lvl 1.
9. trading - I will never trade my stuff for something thats worth less to me, so am I cheating other players? I think so.
10. skip the quests and complete it later when you are in high level.

These aren't cheating. Muling's probably not cheating either - more a matter of play style. C out.

[Munkay]

Right. No one here is saying you can't cheat. But if you want to be part of this community, then you should not cheat or support cheating. Hulk didn't want to abide by the rules we follow here and he left peacefully. There is no ill will towards him.

Definitions in general are rather ambiguous. Its a fault of language. Search too deeply and your definition becomes a bit dogmatic, or at least raises more questions than answers. We trust the admins here to use their best judgement, rather than define specifics such as 'no MF runs exceding 3 per character once a day' etc. Thank you to our forum admins for doing a stellar job.

Cheers,

Munk

[neod]

I would like to point out to all who don't realize it; there is a single player game. If you don't want to play with mules or mf runs or trading or ....

Just play in single player.

There is no leaching so you won't have to worry about that other player ruining the game for you.


My views of online gameplay are simple.

I like to make chars super fast and super often. That is what brings me joy from the game. I get sick of the same build if I play throught the game by lvl 50. I have had way too many different chars/accts/play styles to worry about if I should play through all of act 3 one more time. The only surprises left for me in the game are if a char I build turns out to be crazy to play (i.e. war cry barb or melee sorce) or if I come upon a great item which I want.

Yes, I don't like "cheaters" but for a different reason than most ppl here. I just get annoyed with bots. Other than that? They aren't affecting my gameplay, as I can tell, a whole friggin' lot.

I would go further but i dont' feal the need.

Ok so I will wait for an extremer to reply to this saying how much of a loser i am for how i think. Or how much i am ruining the game by not being an extremist. Well to those that think that way, sorry. I just wish there was a way we could all play happily together, holding hands, and sharing the love... ah man. What am i thinkin? I need some sleep.

There you go. Bash away.

-NeoD

[Munkay]

Ok so I will wait for an extremer to reply to this saying how much of a loser i am for how i think. Or how much i am ruining the game by not being an extremist. Well to those that think that way, sorry. I just wish there was a way we could all play happily together, holding hands, and sharing the love... ah man. What am i thinkin? I need some sleep.

There you go. Bash away.

-NeoD

Did I miss something? Maybe I'm lost and really on a diabloii.net or a battle.net forum, but I thought I was on the lurkerlounge.

The viciousness of the loungers appears to be more of a wimper now a days, unless its in an intellectual debate. I haven't seen flaming (true flaming) here in a long time. I think some one slipped us some sedatives, or we are all distracted by the amazing hip action to Gekko's dancing banana. I think we are more like a VFW Meeting than a den of wolves.

I want to clearify that the orignal posters list of what is 'cheating' was his own list. It is not what the lurkerlounge prescribes to persay. You won't get flamed here for skipping quests, or having mules. ;)

The point that was brought about by Hulk has been beaten to death here before. But for old times sake: We aren't trying to convert everyone on bnet into flower picking anti cheating advocates. Although that would be nice, its not our prerogative. We are rather a band of people who abide by a similar moral code, and are willing to accept any who believe in it too. Or at least can play nice enough on the forums in regard to our rules.

I need a nap too.

Cheers,

Munk

[Urza-DSF]

The viciousness of the loungers appears to be more of a wimper now a days, unless its in an intellectual debate. I haven't seen flaming (true flaming) here in a long time. I think some one slipped us some sedatives, or we are all distracted by the amazing hip action to Gekko's dancing banana. I think we are more like a VFW Meeting than a den of wolves.

Whats really gained in a long, drawn-out flame war? Just seems a bit unnessicary for anyone and everyone to add their opinions to a debate that, after 6-7+ years from D1 and however many years from D2, have *still* not had any definite and over-reaching conclusions.

I dunno...maybe we have changed, but I know that the days of me going into pubbie games and berating the cheaters is long, long gone. Once youve gotten the same response from 99.999% of the players over such a long time almost anyone will loose interest with actually trying to show these people what they're actually doing and just want to enjoy themselves.

So, things that have been said a million times before have been said again, and there is no real reason for everyone to get up in arms about it. At least thats my take on the situation.

*edited for spelling*

[Archon_Wing]

Cheating is what Blizzard defines as cheating, as in third party programs that change the way the game is played.

5,6, 7 and 9 are not cheating at all. Nor is 10. You have a choice to not commit quests O_O ^_^

[Any1]

5. baal run, cow run, triv run, tris run bloody run, P/M run, rune run and etc.

How am I supposed to level the character, if I can't run the maps where the high level critters are? :huh:

[Guest]

If Blizzard wanted us to mule stuff than they would have made it a lot easier for us. Instead they made it so items disappear after a while. -_- k guys we get the message...

[FenrisWulf]

@unrealshadow13:
Er...if Blizzard wanted us to PK people, then they would have given us a "Kill All" button in the Party screen. Instead they put a hostile button there.

Wait, that doesn't make sense at all.

[Archon_Wing]

I heard they gave you a "kill all" button if you complete all the quests in hell mode without twinking or rushing.

On the issue of muling, Blizzard even has instructions on how on the Arreat summit. They did not intend for people to stockpile items on level 1 characters, but they aren't opposed to it either.

The game creators may have had a certain vision of how the game is supposed to be played, but things change over time. They may have intended the sorc to be a caster,but you don't need to do that. And there's no point in trying to guess what the creator's intentions were; I doubt they would give a straight answer. Thus, instead of trying to read reading minds and come up with arbitary definitions of cheating, we do it based on what Blizz has put down... that TOS for b.net

[Brista]

I think one needs to be able to distinguish between cheating and cheesy to debate this kind of stuff

Cheating is against Blizzard's rules and runs the risk of a banning. Muling, act boss running etc clearly doesn't qualify

I think the Lounge is clearly anti-cheating but rather liberal with regards to cheesiness.

We admire people who choose to play the game for challenge but don't usually condemn people who use cookiecutters, twink

Using Bots Maphack etc is an instaban here and a potential ban on BNet

With regard to cheating, if you accept my distinction it's actually pretty easy to get an accurate list:
1. dupes
2. bots
3. map hack
4. trade hack, PK hack, pickit and many other wellknown hacks.
(after Ikknowwhen)

The rest is cheese which is a very personal definition and which misses a number of other cheesy tactics such as cookie-cutters and bug exploits

For my money the best approach to cheese is to be reasonably tolerant of others but strict on yourself, ymmv

[Occhidiangela]

Self muling is a trade with one's self, with the risk, when done by the "in and out of the game and hope it don't crash" method of losing the items that you last left on the ground.

If you have two PC's, or a friend who holds games open . . . it is sorta cheesey.

Trading items within a guild of greater than one is legit as can be.

Twinking is possible, though frequently considered cheesey. Some folks consider twinking cheating, or at least close enough so as to be nearly indistinguishable from cheating.

Selective twinking is a matter of style and what any group of players will put up with withing their own circle. Same with rushing.

Then there are Variant Scum, who do silly stuff that half the Diablo II community would not consider as anything but nuts.

Style.

Fun is where you find it. Just don't cheat. If you like cheese, make sure you are dining at a cafe where everyone is having cheese on their apple pie. Have a cup of coffee, and enjoy. :)

Occhi

[Guest]

I heard they gave you a "kill all" button if you complete all the quests in hell mode without twinking or rushing.

I beat Hell totally solo with a Sorc once. There is no 'kill all' button.

[Munkay]

To quote Gekko:

*SARCASM ALERT*

I heard they gave you a "kill all" button if you complete all the quests in hell mode without twinking or rushing.

*/SARCASM ALERT*

[Archon_Wing]

What are you talking about? I'm being serious. You people don't look hard enough. Season one ladder. Numerous forum posts across the net, players cowering in fear, expressing their hate on one Amazon, Archon Spirit. (*Archon_Wing) Not only would people think this one particular player was actualy crazy enough to not use cookie cutter builds to beat the game but without "teh uber h4x or ITams" But the player behind the Amazon was rewarded with the "kill all" button. And he abused it. Also wanted in four gateways for the robbery of 18 cracked sashes. However, this horror was put away, with a certain good-hearted lurker, pushed the "kill all" button before this menace could push it again, saving another group of would-be HC adventurers. Yea, he told everyone else to leave of course, challenging his opponenet to a "who can click the button faster" duel.

But the ability is still there, just waiting to waiting to be unleashed.

Maybe, just maybe, someone's using sacrasm to counter sacrasm. A stroke of genius really, but usually those things are too good to be true. Refer to my signature for more details. :)

[Brista]

Archon Wing, don't duck the question

Is Kill All cheating or cheezy?

/thrusts mike forward/

:lol: :ph34r: :blink: ;)

[Archon_Wing]

Oh yea... um. "Kill All" would probaly be cheesy since like I said you get it by furfilling certain requirements. Thus, it would not be cheating, because that button was designed into the game. (Note, precautions were taken- only the most attentive will be able to find it) However, I do admit that killing everything that stands my way with one click with little risk involved (Except that dude that beat me to the button.) But it's still a part of a game and you must deal with it. If you don't want to become a victim of this, play with trustworthy folks who won't cheese you!