Diablo 3 Rumored

[Munkay]

@Munk and JustAGuy:  There are a few Starcraft units that made it into War3 - the Zergling and Hydralisk both got the 3D treatment (but the Hydra only got a partial soundset and the Zergling got none - I suppose it'd be pretty easy to import SC sounds, though), and the Marine and Firebat (though the Firebat is now a Fel Space Orc) also made it.  No Protoss units, though.  I would've loved to have seen a Zealot in 3D.

I do not own The Frozen Throne for Warcraft III, and instead of the add nasuem of RoC gameplay, I enjoy many of the finer play sets. Namely user created hero romps ( :P ). I would frequently chose the Zergling or the Hydra as my hero, merely for nostalgia's sake. Though I must say the zergling in 3d was a bit of a shock at first. I've always loved a fully upgraded zergling rush.

There's nothing quite like using just enough guardians to take out seige tanks and flooding a base with 150+ zerglings while they are attacking you with their fleet of cruisers. Nothing as fun as watching those slow boats of battleships truck back towards their base. In the meantime sending scourges to play 'catch up.'

:lol:

[JustAGuy]

There's nothing quite like using just enough guardians to take out seige tanks and flooding a base with 150+ zerglings while they are attacking you with their fleet of cruisers. Nothing as fun as watching those slow boats of battleships truck back towards their base. In the meantime sending scourges to play 'catch up.'

ARGH! Starcraft strategy... causing my mind to... revert... to 1998.

Good lord, I loved Starcraft. I played and defeated the campaigns and the expansion so many times. Ah, the memories... My favourite was always co-op multiplayer against the computer, but it was extremely easy unless you played 6 vs 2 on a very small map. There's nothing like fending off 4 computers rushing you at the same time. The only problem with the small map levels is that they run out of resources quickly, so it's just a matter of managing your units to kill off the pathetically passive (read: sitting in their base, waiting for death) computers. In most cases, a tank, a couple of lurkers, or templar (dark or regular) were all that was required to destroy everything with impunity at the end-game of the small maps.

I liked how you could see the decisions the A.I. made, on the small maps, right away. You knew within the first minute if you were getting a hyper aggressive rusher computer, or a conservative power house. Ah, what a game. But I digress, wasn't there supposed to be something about a Diablo prequel/sequel in this post? Hmm...

[Cryptic]

I think a fun plotline could be made using the current situation in Diablo, with the three prime evils vanquished and the worldstone destroyed.

Background: Angels and demons have complete access to the world. Huge celestial and infernal wars are fought, destroying most of civilization. One continent has fallen completely to the demons, and the people there are being twisted into horrific minions. They are trying to get enough blood sacrifices to bring the three back to their elemental forms, so that they can conquer the world.

Adventure areas: All lands are in chaos - one is a wasteland, totally devoid of life, and abandoned by both sides. A powerful necromancer here is raising his own army to fight "for" humanity; whose side he is really on is a major part of the plot. The rest of the world is a war zone, filled with ruined cities. One city is protected by the angels, and is a sanctuary (and the starting zone). Elsewhere, mortals have been forced underground, and they are finding that the arrival of their thousands of refugees does not go unopposed ...

Act I: Players begin in the shelter city. First missions involve going out into the wasteland (not too far), to save survivors; it is hoped that a few mortals will not be detected on these forays when an angel surely would. Frequent returns for angelic healing and more missions.

Act II: Survivors tell tales of a city thought to be annihilated, but the survivors went underground. Players are given the mission to make it to this city, go underground, and find a way to get everyone to safety. Travels across the wasteland, and into the ruins, with lots of fighting and running from fights that are too hot to handle.

Act III: The netherworld beneath the city is host to fiendish monsters - demons led by a lesser evil, who are independent, and don't want to be thralls to the evil overlords above. The players fight some of these clans, ally with others out of mutual necessity when the above-world demons attack.

Act IV: Refugees are saved, independent demons are being crushed; players are forced to go even deeper down to avoid the invading armies. They come to an underground, ancient city once filled with the original Hell-worshippers who freed Diablo. They don't at all like what they find there. They learn a lot, attract demonic attention, and must escape through an ancient portal that leads God-knows-where.

Act V: It turns out that the portal was used by the necromancer, who was exploring the underground city trying to find a way to banish the invaders. Players come to the land of the undead, where they must convince the necromancer to use his ever-growing armies to help fight off the demons. Unfortunately, with so many people dying, he can't control all of the undead even though he is certain he can, so the players end up leading some contingents against "renegade" ones. Along the way, they explore ancient Horadrim sites collecting the artifacts they will need to turn the tide.

Act VI: The necromancer's attack. Undead armies save many angels and mortals, the necromancer dies a heroic death. The undead under his thrall are destroyed. Meanwhile, the angels lead a desperate battle against the demons, to give the players a chance to sneak away on a crucial mission. They must go to the continent where the demons rule, for the final showdown. Players invade the high temple, trying to close the blood-sacrifice portal just as the three are being brought back into the former incarnations.

The final showdown: Inside the citadel, fighting the half-formed Diablo, Mephisto and Baal at the same time. Oh yeah.
B)

[JustAGuy]

Doc, I love your story ideas. The thought of playing in Cathan's, Isenhart's, Milabrega's, or Sigon's shoes sounds pretty cool.

The problem with open-ended play is that it robs Diablo of it's class-oriented RPG style. An open-end system means no types, and more specifically, types that Blizzard has made. Blizzard can't really control the balance when they're not in control of what the player is going to pick. Blizzard is obviously a big fan of blanace. It appears that they believe they can balance anything, even things that are inherently unbalanced and unbalanceable (just look at PvP in WoW). In open-ended play, there is no balance. There will always be characters more powerful than others, some extremely so. There will always be a most powerful build.

Starcraft was perfectly balanced three ways, but with Diablo 2 they tried to balance it 7 ways. They did a good job, but it's not balanced. With an open-ended Diablo 3, they would be throwing balance out the window, ala Morrowind.

Blizzard is also a fan of diversity. If they're going to host a server full of players, they don't want everyone wearing the same thing, with the same set of skills, running the same area over and over. When things are unbalanced, this isn't unlikely.

I tell ya, Blizzard wants to see some sort of gaming utopia where everyone is powerful and everyone has the same advantages and opportunities, but everyone is unique. They want their games to appeal to EVERYONE, even the unskilled and poor players. It's almost like Blizzard is Jekyl and Hyde; one side making huge money off of easy to play, non-skill-testing games that appeal to the masses, and the other side making the best possible game that incorporates strategy, skill and fun, not caring how long it takes to make or how many demographics it appeals to. So far, all of their games have done everything; made lots of money, required at least a modicum of skill, and were/are extremely fun.

What Blizzard really wants, but they don't know it yet, is a game that rewards player skill, instead of player time investment. All of the Diablo series has been hack-n-slash, hardly a user-controlled skill game, where all you really need to do is put the time in. The same goes for WoW; you spend enough time in there, and you'll be level 40 riding a mount. In Diablo 2, I remember being able to hit level 60 in a night (long night, but still). Time is their main gameplay element. More time = more powerful.

If they made a game that rewarded skill, rather than time investment, then it would be even more of a pick-up-and-play thing, arguably with more replay value. An RPG that allows a low level player to be powerful (not overly so, but powerful in relation to the monsters he would face) right away, just by the way he plays, doesn't sound like a bad thing to me (I'm thinking difficulty balance the likes of Ninja Gaiden for Xbox). For example, player-guided critical hits; a player with the right skill level could be able to guide his sword directly into the neck of the monster, casuing extra damage. Like a head-shot in FPSes. I would imagine it not that simple, though. It's the details that determine skill, and distinguish men from the boys, so to speak.

I'd imagine that replayability is also Blizzard's aim, after all, no one wants to make a game that you play once and say, "well, that was great. On to the next thing." Just look at Unreal 2; they added multiplayer because they realized that people were doing just that, playing once and moving on. The same goes for DOOM 3; the multiplayer is weak, but id software realized that they couldn't release DOOM 3 without it.

Allow me to present an example of great replayability: the Street Fighter series of fighting games. It's very simple, and fun, and although not a role playing game, it serves as a good model of addictive play with good balance based on user skill. Sure, there are cheese moves and some "exploits," but executing them takes good hand-eye coordination (a form of player skill). I liken the Street Fighters to hyper-chess. "Fist to chin 2? Well, I'll do sho-ryu-ken to chest 1." Chess with Hadokens...

A good example of balance is Soul Calibur (not SC 2, though. Damn Todd McFarlane and his balance breaking monster!). There are advantages to each character, but anyone can beat anyone. A very skilled player can beat every challenger, whereas moderate and poor players might only get wins by the advantages the character they've chosen has over their oppenent's character.

I think you can tell that I've never been a fan of rolling dice. Why should I leave my hits up to chance? I can see the monster's chest. Let me try and stab it myself. If he blocks, then good for him, I'll try again; eventually I'll get good at it, and I just might master it.

With time no longer the main gameplay determinant, and skill being most important, all other gameplay elements become bonuses. Candy for the player, treasure to keep him hunting. Wonderful treasure. Instead of relying on your Grandfather or Lightsabre, you could do just as well with a Bastard Sword of Strength, if you had the player skill level to wield it like a pro. Killing stuff with a Lightsabre would obviously be easier than with a Bastard Sword of Strength. Delicious candy! But in the later stages, you wouldn't NEED the Lightsabre to kill stuff.

In Diablo 2, all it was was a treasure hunt. You didn't need that much skill, just a knowledge of what skills are "best" and how to use them effectively. Diablo 3: a skill based game and a treasure hunt? That would be pretty damn addictive.

EDIT: Minor addition.

[Minionman]

Interesting idea.

Personally, I don't want to see the world overrun. I'd rather have stories of big human armies fighting against demons around wherever hell and earth meet. Maybe also some different power angels would get corrupted and you'd get to fight them. Also in the story should be uncorrupted demons or something similar, that's just something I'd like to see.

[Minionman]

Skills might be balanced with no classes by keeping people from having certain combinations. Example: if D2 trees right now were scrambled like this, one "outlawed" combination might be curses, offensive auras, and some of the combat skills. The possible combos would still be mix and match.

If they stick angels and demons in the game as playable, they would probably get skill improvements. Example, humans would probably be better with ranged skills, weather skills, animal summons, out of many. Angels would be good with holy magic, defense, lightning, out of many. Different demon types would be good with fire, death, etc. skills. Humans would get more dexterity and mana, angels better vitality and strength, demons somewhere in the middle depending on what they are.