Trade Skills are now "Professions"

[Bolty]

In the next patch (no ETA as of yet), most trade skills are being renamed to "professions," and the way in which players acquire and learn them is changing. You will no longer learn different professions by paying for them with skill points. You'll still learn them by speaking to the appropriate profession trainer. However, players will now be restricted to learning two professions. We decided to change the skill system to make it simpler, balanced, and more intuitive. The new system should allow everyone to participate in one to two professions, and create a much more vibrant market for goods generated from professions.
We strongly encourage players to choose the two professions (trade skills) they wish to keep before the patch goes live so as to avoid the possibility of losing a hard-earned profession. If you have more than two trade skills known on your character, two will be chosen randomly to be retained as professions. The others will be eliminated from your character. Please unlearn the skills you do not wish to keep, and make sure that you only have two trade skills left on your character. To unlearn a trade skill, open your Skills window by pressing the hotkey “K.” Select the skill you wish to unlearn and click the Unlearn button that appears to the right of the skill.


The professions are: alchemy, blacksmithing, enchanting, engineering, herbalism, mining, leatherworking, skinning, and tailoring.
The secondary skills are: cooking, fishing, and first aid.

Several old trade skills are being turned into secondary skills. These do not count toward your two-profession limit, so players can learn all three secondary skills, in addition to their two professions, without restriction. The survival skill is being removed and campfires have been folded into the cooking profession.

No More Skill Points

With the changes to trade skills, skill points (SP) will be removed from the game, and currency will be used instead to train skills formerly based on SP.

Mount trainers will now require you to have a certain level of reputation with their respective city in order to acquire a mount.

They're simplifying this system even more? Now it sounds like you can really twink up newbies with gold so they can pump their professions early.

-Bolty

[Guest]

Simply paying for skills will mean a game of twinks after 2 or 3 months live.
Even using the old standbye method of x(lvl) points for each level makes more sense.

[Lissa]

This is a bad move.

They should make the gathering skills not be professions, but instead secondary skills. Blacksmithing and Engineering both rely on Mining and making it so that you can either take Blacksmithing or Engineering and Mining is really, really silly. Blacksmithing and Engineering dovetail nicely together and as such, should have the ability to get mining.

Also, the only skill that depends on Herbalism is Alchemy since they changed the way Enchanting works.

To me, the gather skills being called Professions and being under the limit smacks of stupidity.

[lemekim]

They're simplifying this system even more?  Now it sounds like you can really twink up newbies with gold so they can pump their professions early.

-Bolty

They probably will tie recipies with character levels. If not, I can already see that too, along with the rise of blacksmith/leatherworking/alchemy mules =\

Either way I don't like this change, in part because they made mining/skinning/herbalism into professions, when they really are secondary to blacksmithing/engineering/leatherworking/alchemy. I could live with only being engineer and enchanter, or tailor/alchemist. But I don't want to be JUST an Blacksmith (because you almost HAVE to get mining as the other profession), especially when it requires so many materials from other areas.

They could make mining only count as secondary if you already have engineering or blacksmithing, to prevent people from simply picking up all gathering skills. Similarly you could go about skinning and herbalism - secondary profession to leatherworkers and alchemists, primary to everyone else.

[MongoJerry]

They should make the gathering skills not be professions, but instead secondary skills.

My thoughts exactly. Limiting a person to two professions sounds fine, but including the gathering skills as professions seems whacky. Or if they're kept as professions, let people choose three professions, then. I guess Blizzard is thinking that the gathering and finished goods skills should be decoupled. I guess this does force people to get involved in more trading with one another. However, it does also give a big advantage to tailors, who don't need to also get a gathering skill, versus leatherworkers and blacksmiths who do.

The one part of this that I like is just what Blizzard said: It creates more of a marketplace for trade goods. I am now maxed out in Mining (including all gemologies), Engineering, Herbalism, Alchemy, Enchanting, First Aid, and Fishing. I have been debating lately what my next trade skill would be -- and I'm leaning toward tailoring. The currently implemented system seems silly in that it makes it so easy to just get every trade skill in the game. So forcing some kind of limitation is probably a good idea. I'm just not sure if how Blizzard is implementing the new sysem is the right idea. I'm going to wait to see how the new system is actually implemented before I pass too much judgement. Boy, it would be tough for me to decide between Engineering, Alchemy, and Enchanting. I have really liked all three. Tailoring doesn't seem too bad, either.

Hmmm... quick thought. I wonder if you will be able to unlearn professions and choose other ones. You could, for example, start off with mining and herbalism to pick up a bunch of raw materials and then unlearn the gathering talents and skill up in engineering and alchemy really fast. I dunno. We'll see.

[lemekim]

You have artisan first aid!? Make me some heavy mageweave bandages =P

[MongoJerry]

You have artisan first aid!? Make me some heavy mageweave bandages =P

Yep! Just got it! :lol:

[RogueMage]

No More Skill Points

With the changes to trade skills, skill points (SP) will be removed from the game, and currency will be used instead to train skills formerly based on SP.

And this is supposed to be a Beta test? Really, it sounds more like pre-Alpha to me.

[Lissa]

Here's what I posted on the thread Blizzard created:

I believe this is going the wrong way. It is taking away one of the fun aspects of the game. One of the things that is actually attracting people to WoW is the fact that the trade system is so open ended and by doing this, Blizzard is closing off that system.

If Blizzard does feel this is the way they want to go, then I suggest the following to modify the skills that will be taken up as some of the listed professions aren't really professions unless you decide to add more aspects to them. As such, I disagree with the placement of skills by Blizzard.

What I would do is the following:

Allow 2 Professions, allow 1 gathering skills, and 1 secondary abilities.

Here is the way I would break these down.

Profession: Alchemy, Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Engineering, Leatherworking, Tailoring

Gathering skills: Fishing, Herbalism, Mining, Skinning

Secondary skills: Cooking and First Aid

This still gives 4 potential crafts that a player can follow, but it doesn't limit players as much as the plan Blizzard has right now. By doing this, someone can choose to follow both Blacksmithing and Engineering since both skills dovetail so nicely, it also allows said player to be able to supply themselves if they wish to follow those skills by taking Mining as their gathering skill. Then they can choose whether cooking or first aid is more important to them as a secondary skill.

Blizzard's method, as it stands, means that you will see either Blacksmith/Miner, Engineer/Miner, Skinner/Leather worker, Alchemist/Herb gather, or some other combination. This takes away from fun for the player being forced to have just a gathering skill and their main trade skill.

By my method, the player has the ability to grab two trade skills that would dovetail with one gathering skills, so you could see something like a Leather working, Enchanting, skinner that cooks. You might also see a Tailor that mines and does engineering things on the side.

Once again, I believe the route being take leads to less fun and less interest and I think it will hurt WoW in the end, not help it as it is laid out by Blizzard.

It's slightly more limiting in that you only have 4 trade skills, but it seems silly to me that everyone can be a fisher, medic (first aid), and cook whie only allowing 2 other skills.

[lemekim]

An item wipe could also take place as well, so this is something people who will decide on what skills to keep/drop will need to keep in mind.

[Artega]

As though it needs to be simplified. I'd rather they keep the old skill point system and lower the requirements for the next tier; five points for apprentice and then seventy-five for journeyman is a bit steep.

And how would this factor into weapon proficiencies, since those require skill points? Would learning Bows now cost a gold piece instead of the absurd one-hundred skill points?

[--Pete]

Hi,

As for " The new system should allow everyone to participate in one to two professions, and create a much more vibrant market for goods generated from professions." not unless Blizzard pulls its collective head out and removes the restrictions on the use of generated items. The reason that there is so little trade in manufactured items is partially because manufactured items mostly suck compared to things sold by NPC vendors and partially because the only people who can use many of the items are the people who can make them.

--Pete

[apandapion]

Great. The door is open to "Foo" Mules. Lowered access to the casual player. What a stupid design decision.

[Jarulf]

As someone playing mostly solo, joining random groups now and then, this is not that great news. It certianly makes the game not just harder but far less enjoyable, and there really aren't that many good combinations to get. Sure, it seems silly one should be able to max most skills as one get to higher level, but a solution to that is that once you start to get more trade skills, the cost for each level increases. So, instead of paying, say 75 points for a level, you pay 150 (or whatever) if it is your 4th (or 5th or whatever) trade skill. That way one can still focus on a few and have some others as support at lower level. That is what I do and love.

By the way, when is next patch? I will be gone a week for diving and would hate it to happen then. On ther other hand, I don't want to skip skills if it still takes weeks.

[lemekim]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx...al&T=294407&P=1

No "foo" mules (or not as easy)

[JustAGuy]

I can't say that I agree with you, Lissa. The idea is good, but in practice, not necessary.

These are clearly major trade skills: Blacksmithing, Engineering, Alchemy, Enchanting, Tailoring, Leatherworking.

These are clearly gathering skills: Herbalism, Mining, Skinning.

The rest: First Aid, Cooking, Fishing

I believe that fishing can't be considered a primary gathering skill. Fishing is pretty much used for recreation, since you can't fish anything for use with trade skills other the Blackmouth and Firefin. Everything else is just for kicks (and, early on, to eat). Since what you fish isn't all that useful (you can't become a major tradeskiller using Fishing as your primary gather skill), it can't be considered a gather skill at all.

In Blizzard's system, this separation of gather vs trade skill is transparent. It is a de facto separation, intended but not declared. Having a seperate section for gathering skills takes away the illusion of choice, when really the player has no choice at all, save for his/her primary trade skill.

If you're going to be a blacksmith, you're going to also be a miner. Simple as that. If you're going to be an alchemist, you're also going to be an herbalist. The delineation is there; Blizzard is simply stopping players from becoming artisans at everything, like super-Mongo over there, because super-Mongo's play isn't what Blizzard intended. Whether Blizzard makes another special class of tradeskills, i.e. gather skills, or not doesn't matter; people, under the new system, will be very limited in what they can become, tradeskill wise, and that's how they (Blizzard) like it.

Two tradeskills and all the secondary skills; that really limits what can be done by a soloist. Tailoring/skinning, Alchemy/herbalist, Enchanting/Herbalist, Leatherworking/Skinning, Blacksmith/Mining, Engineering/Mining. That's about it. They may as well make mining, herbalism and skinning part of the primary trade skills, i.e. make "mining level 1" a skill that you buy from a blacksmith trainer, along with all the smelting and what not. That would put trade types like Tailors on par with the mineral/herb dependent classes like Engineers and Alchemists.

The only thing I'm not happy with is the mounts; now my dream of ever getting a wolf mount for my Paladin has been all but squashed. I was holding out hope of finding a friendly orc somewhere that was willing to train me in the ways of the wolf... :)

[unless]

Tailoring/Enchanting seems like it might be an interesting combination, since neither skill seems overly dependant on gathering. Would this be viable?

[Tal]

An item wipe could also take place as well, so this is something people who will decide on what skills to keep/drop will need to keep in mind.

I've heard this as well and can tell you I'm not looking forward to it in the least. Yes, I realize its Beta, but I have just gotten Sharanna (with the kindly help of Roane) reasonably well outfitted - garters and all. :rolleyes: I'd hate to have to start back at square one.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Yes. Again Blizzard takes the easy way out, the stupid way.

The trade skills have level requirements on them now, Apprentice requiring level 5, Journeyman level 10, Expert level 20 and Artisan level 35 (subject to change as we balance things).

*Level* requirements -- requirements that you have killed enough monsters so that your ability to pick flowers can go up.

A smart, innovative game company would look at character levels and say, "That's just a simplifying artifact carried over from pnp and small computer days. It makes no real sense and we can do better. We can actually make the effects depend on reasonable causes." Blizzard says, "Screw gameplay -- it's only about the graphics and sound effects anyway. Oh, and a lot of items. Every time we can't figure out how to do something right, we'll just take some more of the player's options away. We'll just force everyone to play the same way."

--Pete

[Elegantly]

The only thing I'm not happy with is the mounts; now my dream of ever getting a wolf mount for my Paladin has been all but squashed. I was holding out hope of finding a friendly orc somewhere that was willing to train me in the ways of the wolf... :)

Does Mind Control still work for getting abilities of the opposite faction?