Custom-built Computer

[Roland]

I am the proud builder of this massive beast of computing machinery. I just had to share. :D

Lian-Li PC-61 USB 12-Bay Aluminum Case - $99
Thermaltake Jungle512 LGA775 CPU Cooler - $40
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 560W PSU w/ PFC - $106
Gigabyte GA-8ANXP-D LGA775 Motherboard - $249
Intel LGA775 Pentium 4 550 (3.4 GHz) CPU - $315
Corsair DDR2 533 PC2-4200 1GB RAM (x4) - $305 apiece, $1220 total
Connect3D Ati Radeon X800 XT 256MB vid card - $580
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy ES sound card - $44
Innocom V.92 56Kbps Fax / Data / Voice modem - $8
Onboard LAN via the motherboard
Hitachi HDS722525 Serial ATA 250GB HD (x3) - $168 apiece, $504 total
Mitsumi 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy drive - $12
Lite-On 16x DVD 48xCD-ROM drive - 28
Plextor 12x DVD+/-RW Black drive - $155
Logitech Elite Keyboard - $27
Logitech Marble Mouse Optical Trackball - $18
ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD FLatpanel Monitor - $570
Windows XP Professional - $141
Office 2003 Professional Edition (Academic Price) - $162
Norton Drive Image 7.0 - $65
Norton Partition Magic 8.0 - $62
Photoshop CS 8.0 (Academic Price) - $314

Grand total - $4810, plus $112 for shipping ($92 for shipping, plus $20 FedEx Overnight charge).

I expect the parts to arrive either tomorrow (Tuesday) or Wednesday. The computer will be up and running the same day all the parts arrive. It's gonna be a blast setting this baby up.

I just had to share. Now if only I had the cash to build a new rig for myself! :D

[Yrrek]

wow.

[Taeme]

Wow ... I'm really amazed at how baddly you got them ripped off.

My computer will be half the price of that one and be just as fast. That's almost scary. Where did you order it from? It can't be newegg, the plextor would have been $20 cheaper at least.

Like I ... Just wow. That's just horrific. Like looking at a car crash.

Edit : serioously this hurts my brain

[Roland]

As of last night. I'm surprised you'd call that ripping them off. An equally-equipped Dell would have cost well over $5k. I saved them a boatload, and I give them free 24/7 tech support. That, and the fact that I can configure their box just the way they want it, with no added BS, AND the fact that they get the actual software CDs instead of the usual preconfigured setup, is why they went with me instead of Dell.

How, exactly, did I rip them off? Those are all stock prices from NewEgg.com, the only place I shop.

Edit:
Regarding the Plextor:

Part #N82E16827131329
Price: $159

That's $4 MORE than what I payed last night. Not $20 less. I can give you a full list of all the part numbers, and you can check the prices yourself, if you like.

N82E16811112025
N82E16835106046
N82E16817153015
N82E16813128246
N82E16819116182
N82E16820145525 x4
N82E16814142029
N82E16829102166
N82E16825100101
N82E16822145071 x3
N82E16821104101
N82E16827131118
N82E16827131329
N82E16823126114
N82E16826104108
N82E16824116194
N82E16837102143
N82E16837116137
N82E16832108165
N82E16832108166

Check for yourself. Grand total was around $4500, plus shipping, plus the $314 for Photoshop from MassBay Wellesley, rather than the $557.50 (as of this writing) for it on NewEgg.com. Whenever possible, I always get student-discounted software. It's just not worth spending the extra dough on the exact same thing.

[Taeme]

It's just not worth spending the extra dough on the exact same thing.

Right. Exactly.

I'm confused as to what this machine is intended for. At it's specs, it looks designed for either high end photoshop work, or video encoding. And more towards the latter. It also looks like they're on dial up, and the HDDs look kinda slow. I'm shocked at the lack of WD Raptors, or hell, just going to the wall with a SCSI drive, which makes me feel this isn't for encoding.

So what's it for?

Lian-Li PC-61 USB 12-Bay Aluminum Case - $99
Thermaltake Jungle512 LGA775 CPU Cooler - $40

This is fine. Can't complain. I'm spending 175 or so on the the cooler / case / psu

Thermaltake Silent PurePower 560W PSU w/ PFC - $106

Ok, if you're going to blow money on a 560W PSU, I gotta ask you -- did you check the rails? Does this thing rate at any where near the power load you're expecting to hit? Or did you just buy something based on wattage? 560W is usually overkill in normal systems. A normal system - and granted, this is no normal system - can do fine on 350W.

Did you check the rails? Estimate consumption? Is this one 80% of peak estimated load?

Gigabyte GA-8ANXP-D LGA775 Motherboard - $249
Intel LGA775 Pentium 4 550 (3.4 GHz) CPU - $315

Why aren't you buying an Athlon 64? I'd expect if you're going to drop five grand on a machine, you'd at least look at the benchmarks. Are they doing video encoding? I think that's the only thing that an Athlon loses to a pentium too. And it doesn't need DDR2 ram.

Speaking of which ...

Corsair DDR2 533 PC2-4200 1GB RAM (x4) - $305 apiece, $1220 total

What justifies this level of investment when it comes to RAM? I honestly can't think of anything that is going to hurt at two gigs, at this level I'm completely confused. That's an extra $600 on RAM that doesn't even add a performance boost. (DDR2, I mean - the extra 2 gigs is, well, the extra 2 gigs?)

Connect3D Ati Radeon X800 XT 256MB vid card - $580

Well, this is top of the line, and well, that's top of line. Moving on.

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy ES sound card - $44

This actually really confuses me. What speaker setup are you using? It seems like this is a little low end for a top of the line system. I mean, maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't cutting out a gig of RAM and going for the top of the line sound card be a bit better? I mean neither are going to mean anything performancewise, but at least you could have that neat-o front bay thingie.

Innocom V.92 56Kbps Fax / Data / Voice modem - $8

They ... Need ... a ... modem ...

Onboard LAN via the motherboard

Amen. Does it have gigabit lan on chip alongside a hardware firewall? I don't pay attention to Intel's chipsets, them being over priced et al.

Hitachi HDS722525 Serial ATA 250GB HD (x3) - $168 apiece, $504 total

What's the warranties on these? I mean, uh ... Seriously is this thing for video encoding? 750 gigs seems so ... High ... Like are they really on dial up? Anyway I would have gone for three Seagate drives at 200 each, but well, actually I'm going for a WD Raptor coupled with Seagate. Only 237 gigs, but admittely, a lot faster.

Well, unless you're making a RAID 5 array? Or something?

Mitsumi 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy drive - $12

The NEC was $9 wasn't it? Oh well, maybe it was on sale before.

Lite-On 16x DVD 48xCD-ROM drive - 28
Plextor 12x DVD+/-RW Black drive - $155

I don't really get the double optical drive thing, that's cool with me, but I don't really get it. Other thing is the NEC 3500 A - which, I've been told is a better model than the plextor - is $85. But I don't think that's SATA.

Logitech Elite Keyboard - $27
Logitech Marble Mouse Optical Trackball - $18

No cordless? The MX's are supposedly awesome. As for the trackball ... I ... Trackball?

ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD FLatpanel Monitor - $570

It sure is.

Windows XP Professional - $141
Office 2003 Professional Edition (Academic Price) - $162
Norton Drive Image 7.0 - $65
Norton Partition Magic 8.0 - $62
Photoshop CS 8.0 (Academic Price) - $314

Software is software, yes. Those are well priced.

If it's for video encoding, it's perfect. Except I think they sell 3.6ghz pentiums, and well, a Raptor would have helped a lot. On the other hand, if it's not, it's about two grand more than it should be. Even Doom 3 isn't going to notice the difference between 2 and 4 gigs of RAM. I can't figure out what would.

[Roland]

I'm confused as to what this machine is intended for. At it's specs, it looks designed for either high end photoshop work, or video encoding. And more towards the latter. It also looks like they're on dial up, and the HDDs look kinda slow. I'm shocked at the lack of WD Raptors, or hell, just going to the wall with a SCSI drive, which makes me feel this isn't for encoding.

So what's it for?

Goal #1: To have a shelf-life expectancy BEYOND 2006 / 2007.
Goal #2: High-end digital photography, with potential for video.
Goal #3: Intensive use, day-in and day-out, for all sorts of work-at-home business (and schooling) needs.

I went with the Hitachi's because they were some of the fastest all-around 7200RPM drives, and because the 10k drives were too pricey for too little gain (in terms of storage) at this juncture in time / technology. Besides, I was going off a Dell setup they were looking at, so I didn't exactly flex my brain on other options. They were very specific in what they wanted in some areas, and couldn't care less about other areas, so I only had so much room to customize.

Ok, if you're going to blow money on a 560W PSU, I gotta ask you -- did you check the rails? Does this thing rate at any where near the power load you're expecting to hit? Or did you just buy something based on wattage? 560W is usually overkill in normal systems. A normal system - and granted, this is no normal system - can do fine on 350W.

Did you check the rails? Estimate consumption? Is this one 80% of peak estimated load?

I myself have a Thermaltake PSU that I bought after my old one blew up (literally). I checked the stats, and looked for one with active PFC - Thermaltake was, at the time, one of the only ones that had it. Also, these people are going to be hooking up a LOT of stuff, both internal and out. 350W would have blown instantly; 350W is what I had, and I'm running a box over 2 years old, with only average HW consumption - it literally blew up from overloading. And yes, it gets over 80% peak estimated load, IIRC. Some were higher (85%), but others were far lower (68%), so I went with what I trusted, and what I knew would give them the room to expand. 4GBs of RAM, 3 HDs, a massive processor (the new LGA775 P4's require a minimum of ~300 or 400W; 400W is the "recommended" minimum in the computing community, and as I said, these people are going to be hooking up a lot of peripherals), full-out HW, a big vid card, and loads of eternal peripherals (mouse, keyboard, USB pen drives, digital cameras, etc. are just some of the items) are a lot of drain on a PSU, so I wanted it to be safe for them to use without blowing it up.

Why aren't you buying an Athlon 64? I'd expect if you're going to drop five grand on a machine, you'd at least look at the benchmarks. Are they doing video encoding? I think that's the only thing that an Athlon loses to a pentium too. And it doesn't need DDR2 ram.

Speaking of which ...

Absolutely NO AMD chips. That was another specification. *shrugs* To each their own. I'm an Intel fanboy, myself, but even here I would have been leaning towards AMD. They said no AMD, so I said "Ok."

What justifies this level of investment when it comes to RAM? I honestly can't think of anything that is going to hurt at two gigs, at this level I'm completely confused. That's an extra $600 on RAM that doesn't even add a performance boost. (DDR2, I mean - the extra 2 gigs is, well, the extra 2 gigs?)

Funny you should mention that. I had orignally only put in 2 Gigs, as that was what they had specified. Then they decided, last night, to up it to 4 Gigs. Why is beyond me - I didn't bother asking. They wanted as much memory as humanly possible. I thought about telling them to wait, so that they could upgrade to 667 when Intel finally supports (what the hell are they dragging their hells for THIS time? Idiots.), but decided it wasn't worth arguing. They had their demands, and I was just the guy to bring them to life - little more.

This actually really confuses me. What speaker setup are you using? It seems like this is a little low end for a top of the line system. I mean, maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't cutting out a gig of RAM and going for the top of the line sound card be a bit better? I mean neither are going to mean anything performancewise, but at least you could have that neat-o front bay thingie.

Originally, they didn't care about sound - hence no speakers in the setup (they have some old cruddy ones they use). But then, again, last night things changed a little. They decided to get a decent sound card, nothing too fancy (i.e. expensive), but nothing bottom-end, either. They ALSO decided to get a 56K modem - her mother asked why she would need one, I gave her the lowdown, and she decided it would be good to have (if I could get one for under $20 - so I did). Keep in mind, they do a LOT of work at home, including vigorous use of remote desktop and VPN tunneling. I think they chose to get the modem because "Why not?", and for use with faxes, etc.

They ... Need ... a ... modem ...

See above. It was a last-minute cheap addition.

Amen. Does it have gigabit lan on chip alongside a hardware firewall? I don't pay attention to Intel's chipsets, them being over priced et al.

IIRC, the Gigabyte board I had selected DID have GB LAN, in addition to 6 (yes, 6!!!) DIMM slots, and RAID 0/1/0+1 on TWO 4x SATA connections. It's a NICE board, and will certainly allow them all the expandability and shelf life they wanted.

What's the warranties on these? I mean, uh ... Seriously is this thing for video encoding? 750 gigs seems so ... High ... Like are they really on dial up? Anyway I would have gone for three Seagate drives at 200 each, but well, actually I'm going for a WD Raptor coupled with Seagate. Only 237 gigs, but admittely, a lot faster.

Well, unless you're making a RAID 5 array? Or something?

Close - RAID 1, or possibly RAID 0+1 (I'm leaning towards RAID 1; I see no reason to add striping to the mix). And the warranties are 3 years. I figure by the time they die, there'll be something bigger and better out - I personally have only ever had one HD die on me, and I use my computers 24/7. The design will be 2x 250 drives set up for a RAID 1 array, with the 3rd drive being used for backup of system images, and all-around data storage (the whole family are photo-freaks, so there's going to be LOTS of digital pictures to store, and probably digital video eventually).

The NEC was $9 wasn't it? Oh well, maybe it was on sale before.

It was and is $9. But it was white. Case is black. I'm anal, and it was a $3 difference ($30 would have been a different story). Besides, I trust Mitsumi drives. I trust NEC monitors. Not sure about the rest of their stuff. ;)

I don't really get the double optical drive thing, that's cool with me, but I don't really get it. Other thing is the NEC 3500 A - which, I've been told is a better model than the plextor - is $85. But I don't think that's SATA.

It's what they specifically asked for - one drive for reading, one for burning. Totally seperate. And the board has NO IDE attatchments whatsoever, so I had to go with SATA. The Plextor has rated high, so I chose that.

No cordless? The MX's are supposedly awesome. As for the trackball ... I ... Trackball?

MY original choice was the cordless MX Duo for $69. They didn't want cordless (I didn't ask why - I found it easier that way). As for the trackball, her mother has severe tendinitis in her right wrist, and using a mouse is literally excruciating after a day (she was already wearing a brace when I saw her last night). She insisted on a trackball, so I got her the one I would have picked (which was the same one she was thinking of). Then I just found a good keyboard to go with it. The split keyboards she finds too cumbersome to use, and actually worsen her condition, due to the nature of WHERE it is in her wrist. Or something.

If it's for video encoding, it's perfect. Except I think they sell 3.6ghz pentiums, and well, a Raptor would have helped a lot. On the other hand, if it's not, it's about two grand more than it should be. Even Doom 3 isn't going to notice the difference between 2 and 4 gigs of RAM. I can't figure out what would.

Next highest Pentium 4 chip @ NewEgg.com: $1070, roughly. And sold out. ;) It will be used for a LOT of digital photography, as well as tons of work-at-home business (i.e. completion of work outside of their usual offices). I know it's overkill, and I told them that at the get-go when they said $5k was their spending limit. But, hey, who am I to argue with the customer? They told me what they wanted, generally (and sometimes specifically), and I filled in the rest.

When a customer has VERY specific desires, it's best not to try and change them - no matter how silly they may be. ;)

[Taeme]

It sounds more now like they have very, very bizarre ideas about buying a computer and you were just taken along for the ride.

560 chips do sell, though I suppose Newegg doesn't yet carry them. They're about $500. The P4 EE are just horrible, horrible jokes. Horrible!


That video card claims to be out of stock. And NEC does make black floppy drives. I'm buying one in october / november ;) I can spell out the system I'm getting, if you'd like.

[Roland]

It sounds more now like they have very, very bizarre ideas about buying a computer and you were just taken along for the ride.

Mayhap. Like I said, they wanted something with a long shelf life. While some of their demands I felt were justified, the whole 4GBs of RAM was a little excessive, IMO. Even the .75 terrabytes of HD space was a bit much, even for me. ;) But, so it goes. I gave them what they wanted, and they won't have to upgrade for another 5+ years. I think part of it is the fact that their current computer is an old Gateway, bought about 3 years ago for ~$2k. It's such a piece of junk, I can't even begin to describe the nightmares it induces. :P

560 chips do sell, though I suppose Newegg doesn't yet carry them. They're about $500. The P4 EE are just horrible, horrible jokes. Horrible!

Aye, NewEgg doesn't have them yet, unfortunately. And I agree - the EE chips are TOTAL junk. Intel has already stated they won't be continuing them, and that this will be the last rendition of them. They're being discontinued totally, and thank goodness. 10x the price for higher heat dissipation and virtually NO gain at all whatsoever in terms of speed and processing power. Just rediculous.

That video card claims to be out of stock. And NEC does make black floppy drives. I'm buying one in october / november ;) I can spell out the system I'm getting, if you'd like.

I had planned on getting the ATi version for $699, but that sold out in the 24 hour period between when I found it and when I ordered the system. The Connect3D was the only model left in stock, out of 3 or 4 models, so I snagged it. It's probably out of stock now because I was the last, or one of the last, to order it. I don't think they're stocking more than 2 or 3 X800's at a time from any one company.

As for NEC making black drives, I don't doubt it, but NewEgg only had the white ones from them. Sometimes NewEgg disappoints me in the way their selection goes, but I understand from a marketing perspective why they do it the way they do. It just gets irritating when trying to find a good piece of equipment that a month ago was the best for the money, and is now suddenly not being carried by them anymore. :P

I'd love to hear what your rig is gonna be like. I'm trying to piece together a new setup for myself, but by the time I have the money prices and equipment will have changed so drastically that I'm not looking too hard. ;) It will be at least another 5 months before I can afford a new rig. But by then I hope to build a nice one - something that will last me more than 2 - 3 years, with room to upgrade throughout its lifetime to maintain longterm viability.

[Bob]

Goal #1: To have a shelf-life expectancy BEYOND 2006 / 2007.

well, it'll be out of date mid 2005, obsolete end of 2006. (moore's? law - yes, I know it's intended for processors, but it tends to hold reasonably for lots of other components.) It might still be ok for things by 2007, but it will be far from top of line line, assume that things don't break down from wear & tear before then. Buying something decent now, and then something else in 2 years time wold probably have been a better solution, they could also have saved money by keeping the monitor, optical drives, keyboard/mouse from one bought now. Then, replacing those with cheap components have a second computer in 2 years time as well.

Besides, I was going off a Dell setup they were looking at, so I didn't exactly flex my brain on other options

You were even looking at a Dell? Bad, Bad (If there's one thing I've learned, it's NEVER buy a Pc from a manufacturer)

Absolutely NO AMD chips. That was another specification. *shrugs* To each their own. I'm an Intel fanboy, myself, but even here I would have been leaning towards AMD. They said no AMD, so I said "Ok."

Remind me to report you to the /. crowd ;-)... is it worth getting the lounge /.ed again?
Do they have Intel stock?

I had orignally only put in 2 Gigs, as that was what they had specified. Then they decided, last night, to up it to 4 Gigs. Why is beyond me - I didn't bother asking. They wanted as much memory as humanly possible.

Good job you didn't get an Athlon64... they can address a lot of RAM.

It's what they specifically asked for - one drive for reading, one for burning.

Good decision, both for that reason and because the computer doesn't become entirely unusable if one dies. When I get around to building my new one I've be going dual optical, a DVD & a CDRW.

Next highest Pentium 4 chip @ NewEgg.com: $1070, roughly. And sold out.

Since money seems to have been no object, you could have gone with a dual processor system (does windows XP share stuff out beween them automatically?) or just use Linux and the GIMP instead of photoshop. Linux would also allow them to squeeze every last drop of performance out of, XP is evil in it's system demands. My dad's PC is a P4 2.2GHz with XP, mine is a Duron 1.3GHz with W98. Mine runs faster (ok, I've got more RAM, but still, XP is a beast).

It will be used for a LOT of digital photography, as well as tons of work-at-home business

So what's the $520 graphics card in aid of? by the time anything comes out that's able to fully exploit it, it'll likely be obsolete anyway

Well, their/your choice, arguing with g/f's parents about anything is a surefire method of somethingorother. If they can say $5k budget, then I suppose they either have more money than computer-market sense (no offence intended to anyone), or really do want a dream PC (except the Intel processor)

-Bob

[Roland]

But they get a discount (10%, IIRC) through their work if they buy a Dell. Still, my prices undershot Dell, and even with their discount, my price was barely above, and certainly got them a better deal. Then again, that was BEFORE they decided to up the RAM, etc. By that point, I was beating Dell by about a grand, instead of only a couple hundred. ;) I personally would never buy a PC-in-a-box.

well, it'll be out of date mid 2005, obsolete end of 2006. (moore's? law - yes, I know it's intended for processors, but it tends to hold reasonably for lots of other components.) It might still be ok for things by 2007, but it will be far from top of line line, assume that things don't break down from wear & tear before then. Buying something decent now, and then something else in 2 years time wold probably have been a better solution, they could also have saved money by keeping the monitor, optical drives, keyboard/mouse from one bought now. Then, replacing those with cheap components have a second computer in 2 years time as well.

Something this powerful, while not remaining top of the line, will be FAR from obsolete by 2006. 2007 it may start to show its age, but even that's a stretch. As for when they'll have to actually replace it? 2009 or later, barring massive hardware failure. You'd be surprised how long a system can last when treated properly (and when using QUALITY components). You'd also be surprised at how long a top-of-the-line system stays useful - MANY years beyond where it falls off the top of the food chain. My current system was not top dog when I got it, but it was very good for its time. It's showing its age in some respects now, and has had an upgrade or three over time, but even so, it'll last me a good two years before I truly need to replace in. The only thing pushing me to replace it is heavy-duty gaming that's come out as of late. It could easily run Doom 3, I'm sure, especially if I replaced the dated video card (the only thing on there that really lags behind). I can play lots of older games QUITE easily, and will still be able to enjoy the latest games for a good year or more. That's 3 - 4 years of very useful life for the latest in gaming, with minimal monetary investment in that time (less than $300 - system cost ~$800 when I got it). Their system, which has all the latest components to come out within the last 6 months, will far outlast my system in terms of long-term viability. When my becomes totally obsolete for the latest games, theirs will still be going very strong, probably even stronger than mine is now.

Remind me to report you to the /. crowd ;-)... is it worth getting the lounge /.ed again?
Do they have Intel stock?

No Intel stock that I'm aware of. Don't know why the father insisted on no AMDs, but he's not one to argue with. ;) Besides, like I said, I like Intels myself, and their latest platform looks to shake AMD off its high-horse once again. My only problem with Intel is their insistence on not supporting DDR2-667 currently. There's NO reason not to, but they insist on waiting. Mayhap by Christmas, or Q1 next year, they'll have changed their tune. I HATE when Intel drags its heels. :P

Good decision, both for that reason and because the computer doesn't become entirely unusable if one dies. When I get around to building my new one I've be going dual optical, a DVD & a CDRW.

I always go dual-optical drives. It was their insistence on the exact setup - one solely for reading, one solely for burning. I just gave them what they asked for. :)

Since money seems to have been no object, you could have gone with a dual processor system (does windows XP share stuff out beween them automatically?) or just use Linux and the GIMP instead of photoshop. Linux would also allow them to squeeze every last drop of performance out of, XP is evil in it's system demands. My dad's PC is a P4 2.2GHz with XP, mine is a Duron 1.3GHz with W98. Mine runs faster (ok, I've got more RAM, but still, XP is a beast).

It's funny. Money IS an object, especially right now. But they had this planned out for awhile, methinks, and have been budgeting it for some time. They're not rich, by ANY means - they just budget their money VERY tightly. You can't even get a haircut in that family unless it's in the budget. Myself, I have great budgeting skills, but I don't hold them that tight. I like more flexibility. ;)

Their absolute cap was $5,000. Less would be better, but that was their ultimate limit. As for using Linux, Windows XP was a REQUIREMENT for her father's business work. I was going to give them Windows 2000, as I like it 10x better, but her father's company stated Windows XP was a requirement for him to work from home (Lord only knows why; I'm assuming built-in Remote Desktop). Besides, they have minimal to no Linux practice, and since they all run Windows PCs, switching to Linux would not have been an option anyway. No point, either - they need this for business first, schooling second. Linux doesn't fit into either of those categories AT ALL. Even for me, Linux is nothing more than a hobby OS, not a prime candidate for my main system. That won't change for home users for a LONG time, and it will still be a long while before businesses truly adopt Linux as the main platform, too.

So what's the $520 graphics card in aid of? by the time anything comes out that's able to fully exploit it, it'll likely be obsolete anyway

Well, their/your choice, arguing with g/f's parents about anything is a surefire method of somethingorother. If they can say $5k budget, then I suppose they either have more money than computer-market sense (no offence intended to anyone), or really do want a dream PC (except the Intel processor)

The graphics card was also their insistence - I would have waited for the 6800 Ultra, which blows the X800 away in most respects. But, the 6800 Ultra isn't out, and they wanted top-of-the-line, for digital photography (both personal and school related), and I have a hunch eventually digital video. But we'll see. The whole family loves photography, especially the father and two daughters. Mother is amateur at best, mostly sticking to point-and-shoots. :) The system is NOT designed for gaming (oddly enough, given the specs). I'd be surprised if ANY games make their way onto there.

Like I said before, it's not being rich, it's planning months in advance and budgeting money for it. And while they both work in the computer industry, they don't follow the hardware NEARLY as religously as I do. More along the lines of water-cooler chat than real hardware savvy. Which is why I'm building it - that, and because the father does NOT want to deal with building a machine. ;) It's a joy for me, and it's what I'm going to be basing my future business around, so I need all the experience and clientele I can get. :D I've already got them, a friend, and a co-worker lined up for new systems. Just a matter of the other two scraping together the cash. I expect to build their systems post-Christmas. By then, the money-drain season will be over, and we'll be richer from our massive retail holiday hours boost. :D

Looks to ship out tomorrow, so parts should get here by Tuesday or Wednesday. The earlier, the better, especially since almost ALL of this is new to me - Windows XP I have minimal experience with, SATA and RAID absolutely NO experience with, and of course the new graphics / CPU interfaces. Gonna be a blast setting it all up though. ;)

[Zippyy]

I would have waited for the 6800 Ultra, which blows the X800 away in most respects.

'Cept gaming. :) 6800 beats out the X800 in only one game that I am aware of, Doom 3. This is because of a badly coded shader that only affects ATI cards. ATI has also released official drivers that drastically improve X800 performance in Doom 3.

the 6800 Ultra isn't out

The 6800 Ultra has been out for many months, right? It came out around a month before the X800, which is definately out.

I just searched for about ten minutes and found many distributors who have the 6800 Ultra in stock.

By the way, good to see you again Roland. (Book 7 soon!)

[Guest]

I heard that aluminum cases are super quiet. My computer has always been REALLY noisy. Would an aluminum case make it quieter? Are they heavier?

AMD>Intel

[kandrathe]

I figure by the time they die, there'll be something bigger and better out - I personally have only ever had one HD die on me, and I use my computers 24/7. The design will be 2x 250 drives set up for a RAID 1 array, with the 3rd drive being used for backup of system images, and all-around data storage (the whole family are photo-freaks, so there's going to be LOTS of digital pictures to store, and probably digital video eventually).

I think there is already something better. There is a reason that most SATA drive warranties are 1 year, and SCSI drive warranties are 5 years. I guess I would have mixed a hot swappable Ultra 320 SCSI raid 5 array with 3-5 lesser 37.5GB (120GB) 10K rpm drives for data storage ($120x5) + SCSI controller and then tossed on a large capacity (250 GB) $157 SATA drive for OS and Software. You can make a Ghost image of the default OS installation on the SATA drive for easy recovery. For video work, 120GB of higher speed work space might be more useable than double that space at half the speed. I guess they could always use that extra 2GB of RAM as a ram disk for DVD writing cache.

I'm waiting to build my next machine after the brauhaha of PCI Express architecture is stable and affordable (est. Summer 2005). It should more than double the bidirectional video bandwidth of AGP 8x. So, as far as not being obsolete for a long time... I dunno, I think I would have built a good $2500 machine for now, and then another $2500 machine in late 2005 or summer 2006.

[Hocus]

Wow.

I bought a better system about a month ago (apart from the RAM, I only got 1GB, why you'd need 4GB is beyond me) for almost half the price. Granted I did buy at wholesale prices but that is still an outrageous price.

He/she got ripped off big time.

[Roland]

Quiter depends on the manufacturer, and the setup of your computer. Rely more on manufacturer and case design than on the material if quiet is your thing.

Then again, if you want quiet, go with water cooling. ANY case is quiet when equipped with water cooling.

Oh, and if you're wondering how light - most steel cases weigh in around 15 - 20 kg; most aluminum around 3 - 6 kg.

[Roland]

"WHOLESALE". The average computer buyer, myself included, has NO access to wholesale parts.

For what they paid, they did NOT get ripped off. They got the system at far less than ANY other company would / could put it out. The only things they even remotely got "ripped off" on are the RAM and the video card, both of which are ONLY so highly priced because they are new and hard-to-get.

In comparison to other manufacturers, I saved them about a grand. And that's BEFORE factoring in lifetime local 24 / 7 FREE technical support - 4 years with Dell would have cost close to another half grand.

[Roland]

'Cept gaming. smile.gif 6800 beats out the X800 in only one game that I am aware of, Doom 3. This is because of a badly coded shader that only affects ATI cards. ATI has also released official drivers that drastically improve X800 performance in Doom 3.

Where did you read this?

Unreal Tournament 2004 - the GeForce 6800 GT, the MIDDLE card in the 6800 line, even beats out the X800 in UT2004. The 6800 Ultra would have left the X800 flat in the dust.

Call of Duty - Once again, the 6800 GT beats out the X800 - this time with a VERY commanding lead that only increases as the resolution and settings get bumped up. Looks to me like the 6800 Ultra would be just about TWICE as good as the X800 at Call of Duty.

Doom 3 - Same story. 6800 GT beats out the X800 by over 13 FPS at highest settings. The Ultra would probably beat THAT by another 10+.

Farcry - FINALLY the X800 is in the lead - but that lead DIMINISHES as the settings increase! And remember: this is the 6800 GT, which for all its power cannot compete with its older brother, the 6800 Ultra. You can be guaranteed the Ultra would beat the X800 in ALL settings.

Flight Simulator 2004 - A minor lead of ~2 FPS at all settings, the GT is only a hair behind the X800 - ATi's flagship. The 6800 Ultra, NVIDIA's flagship, would beat the X800 to pieces.

Joint Operations - The only REAL proof of the X800's "superiority" - and even THG has to admit it's most likely bad drivers for NVIDIA. And, once again, keep in mind that these are comparisons between the 6800 GT, which is NOT NVIDIA's flagship model.

Battlefield: Vietnam - Once again, the X800's lead can only be attributed to bad driver support for the game. The Ultra would easily match the X800 in this game, even with faulty driver support; the lead is not that severe, especially at higher levels.

DTM Race Driver 2 - Once more, horribly faulty driver support on NVIDIA's end. As THG sums it up nicely: How else can NVIDIA's performance drop so drastically, especially at higher resolutions? Chock up another supposed "victory" for ATi - at least in the marketing departments eyes.

So, what have you got? 4 games that the X800 beats out the 6800 GT, only 1 of which was NOT the result of faulty drivers. But wait - the 6800 GT is NOT NVIDIA's flagship model; the 6800 Ultra is. So, you mean to tell me ATi's flagship model can't even compete with NVIDIA's second-highest card? Gee, I guess they better not start cranking out their 6800 Ultras in massive quanities, or ATi's gonna be out of business by Christmas. :P

I don't know where you get your information, but ATi dropped the ball on this one. Or, rather, to be more accurate (and fair) - NVIDIA came back strong and hard, and simply surpassed ATi in every respect. It's not that ATi fumbled - just that NVIDIA knocked the crap out of them. ;)

The 6800 Ultra has been out for many months, right? It came out around a month before the X800, which is definately out.

Yes, but if you'll note, the motherboard ONLY supports PCI-Express. NVIDIA has yet to come out with ANY PCI-Express boards for retail in their 6800 line, or even their newest 6600 line. Only the 5750 and 5900 can be found in PCI-Express form, and they are FAR below the 6800 / 6600 AGP line in terms of performance. The PCI-Express line will be even better.

I just searched for about ten minutes and found many distributors who have the 6800 Ultra in stock.

See above. While the 6800 Ultra AGP might be in stock, the 6800 (insert model here) has NOT been released under PCI-Express format as of yet. NVIDIA really dropped the ball on this one. I'm disappointed in them for that, but I still have to give them props for having the BEST hardware out on the market - ATi isn't even competition at the moment. They're gonna have a tough time fighting their way back to the top - doubly so since they REALLY fumbled by not supporting DX9.c nor Shader Model 3.0.

By the way, good to see you again Roland. (Book 7 soon!)

Good to see you too. As for Book 7, I've been disappointed with the last 2. The final chapter looks to be the ultimate conclusion to a rapidly failing story. Just check out Doc's post over at RBD. I can't say I'm surprised - SK has really fallen lately. I wish it hadn't taken this turn, but so it goes. We'll see what happens.

[Hocus]

The 6800 Ultra outperforms the x800's in most if not all OpenGL games. This is because ATI hasn't rewritten their OpenGL renderer since the r200 core. If you decompile the renderer you will find there are still optimisations for Quake 2 present in it.

The x800's tend to achieve better benchmarks than the 6800 Ultras in Direct3D. This is because like most video cards they rely heavily on optimisations, optimisations that in the case of the x800 lead to graphics discrepancies such as texture shimmering and the white dotting of flat textures. If you disable these optimisations (a difficult task in itself) it tends to result in a 30-60fps drop in all games. nVidia's optimisations do not cause these same problems when enabled, are nowhere near as difficult to disable, and if disabled do not cause the massive framerate hit/compromised image quality that occurs in the x800's.

[Hocus]

Corsair DDR2 533 PC2-4200 1GB RAM (x4) - $305 apiece

I like it how she's buying DDR2 RAM despite the fact it's triple the price of DDR, runs at CAS4 by default (which can't be changed) and runs at half the speed of DDR.

[Zippyy]

I have been owned. :) I was referring to X800 XT PE vs 6800 Ultra benchmarks over at hardocp, which (at least when both cards were brand spanking new) pointed towards X800 XT dominance in all areas except Doom 3.

I didn't like the last two books much either. Six got better at the end, IMO, when he finally thought, "Oh yeah, I'm writing a fantasy series, maybe I should include a bit of fantasy," referring to the castle, not the freaky creatures. Come to think of it, I didn't much like book 2 or 3 either. Yeah, 1 and 4 were the only ones I really enjoyed. It's a wonder I've made it this far.