Unique hunting resource help?

[Kasreyn]

Hi everyone,

These days I'm actually playing quite a bit of LoD 1.10 Open, and currently am running an MF FO/Meteo Sorcie, 73, and rearing a young Hammerdin, 35. I've discovered the joys of crafting and Countess runs for runes. However, I've been appalled that in four months of playing 1.10 and easily well over a billion gold gambled away, only one unique has appeared, and that was in the first 20 minutes after patching (I'm serious) - and it was just a Steelgoad.

Since unique gambling is so heartbreakingly rare, I'm looking for tips on where are the best places to look for certain items. I'm aware that once a monster's level is high enough, it can drop certain items; I'm also aware that if its level is TOO high, it may drop something which the game may consider "better", but which might not be precisely what I'm looking for.

Now, I had never attempted to look for this sort of information before, so I simply *assumed* it would be available on one of the major D2 sites. Since a unique's ilvl determines whether a monster of a given mlvl can drop it (to my knowledge), it would seem to follow that I should line up a list of all uniques by ilvl next to a list of all monsters by mlvl, and see what falls where.

As a sample case, one of the items I am hunting for is Skin of the Vipermagi. It would have to be in an area where serpentskin armor could drop, and where monsters' mlvl would be high enough to generate the Skins. But if their mlvl were too high, their overall chance of a Vipermagi would decrease. There would be a minimum cutoff but (afaik) no maximum cutoff. (If there IS a maximum cutoff, by all means let me know). So the chances for a monster dropping the Skin would start at some integer at the minimum cutoff, possibly grow to an ideal "sweet spot" point, then decline over time as the monsters became more likely to drop higher level armors than serpentskin.

Again, this is all conjecture, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But what surprised me was the inability to find something so simple as a list of monsters by ascending mlvl, and uniques by ascending illvl. There are pages to be found with monsters, but they are often scattered among multiple pages by act or species, which makes it problematic to eyeball the ones with better drop chances for specific uniques. And I have been totally unable to find ANY resource on unique item levels.

If anyone could help me out, I'd appreciate it. Reply here or by email to kasreyn@gmail.com or by AIM to LordKasreyn.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

P.S. if it matters, the MF sorcie is running with 310% MF.

[brianc84]

Now, I had never attempted to look for this sort of information before, so I simply *assumed* it would be available on one of the major D2 sites. Since a unique's ilvl determines whether a monster of a given mlvl can drop it (to my knowledge), it would seem to follow that I should line up a list of all uniques by ilvl next to a list of all monsters by mlvl, and see what falls where.

The relationship between monster level and unique item level is one of the many things that determines wether or not a monster can drop a specific unique but it is certainly not the only thing.

The chance to drop a specific unique item is a function of:
-The monster's level in relation to the unique item's level
-Your amount of magic find
-The monster's treasure class
-The monster's ability to drop the unique items base type

The monster's chance to drop a specific base type is a function of:
-The treasure class structure itself
-The monster's treasure class

The monster's treasure class is a function of:
-The monster's base treasure class
-The monster's level, which is used to determine the farthest a monster's treasure class can be upgraded in nightmare and hell

I might have left some things out somewhere. Most are relatively simple except for the treasure class structure. Sparing the details, I'll just point you to ATMA, which has a drop calculator built in that factors in all the necessary information.

As a sample case, one of the items I am hunting for is Skin of the Vipermagi. It would have to be in an area where serpentskin armor could drop, and where monsters' mlvl would be high enough to generate the Skins. But if their mlvl were too high, their overall chance of a Vipermagi would decrease. There would be a minimum cutoff but (afaik) no maximum cutoff. (If there IS a maximum cutoff, by all means let me know). So the chances for a monster dropping the Skin would start at some integer at the minimum cutoff, possibly grow to an ideal "sweet spot" point, then decline over time as the monsters became more likely to drop higher level armors than serpentskin.

The overall chance typically decreases since higher level monsters are able to drop more types of items, watering down the chance of getting the specific item type you want and so lessening the chance of getting a unique item of that type. However, it's not always the case (it's often not the case but only up to a certain point) that the more types of items a monster can drop, the less chance you have of getting the right item type. Typically, picking from a treasure class a few above the first treasure class that an item type becomes available does not water down the chance much. The chance can increase since many adjacent treasure classes pick the same item classses. Certainly you'd want to check as many treasure classes as possible that will pick the right item class, but you wouldn't want to go so high that the chances to pick from other classes water down the chance to pick from the class you want.

[Thrugg]

Since a unique's ilvl determines whether a monster of a given mlvl can drop it (to my knowledge), it would seem to follow that I should line up a list of all uniques by ilvl next to a list of all monsters by mlvl, and see what falls where.

This is a common misconception.
There are actually two requirements for monster X to drop item A. It must be able to drop the base item, which means its top treasure class must be as high as the base item's TC, and it must have mlvl at lest as high as the unique/set item's level.

This effectively sets up a 2-dimensional space, rather than a simple list, which is... a lot harder to draw.

As an example, Hell Pindleskin can drop all base items (TC87) but is only mlvl 86. Hell Mephisto can only drop up to TC78 but is mlvl 87.
Arachnid Mesh is a unique TC63 Spiderweb Sash, but is level 87. Both Pindle and Meph can drop Spiderweb Sashes but only Meph can drop the unique one.
Windofrce is a unique TC87 Hydra Bow which is level 80. Only Pindle can drop Hydra Bows and therefore Windforce, even though Meph would be able to drop a unique one if he could.

I am a more nuts and bolts person so I refer to the raw lists
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tokusanya/11...110_full_tc.txt for item TCs and levels
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/tokusanya/Monsters.htm for monster max TCs and mlvls
All the information you need is there to answer a given "can drop?" question.

However, if you have an Excel viewer, a much prettier compilation of all that information is available here:
http://members.shaw.ca/KurganXXL/D2/WhatCa...FromUniques.xls
Thanks to Kurgan.

[edit] ah, too slow as usual. By the way, a general rule of thumb is to hunt at a monster whose top TC is two TCs above the item you are looking for, that is more or less where the TC distribution peaks.

[Kasreyn]

But I'm still a bit confused.

The list of TC's you sent me has 36 for Skin of the Vipermagi... but the TC's above it are "39" and "42".

So, for the "peak" drop chance, should I try to find a monster with 38 TC - arithmetically two higher - or 42, which is two "groups" higher?

There don't appear to BE any monsters with a TC 38 on that list of super uniques.

Also, everyone seems to have assumed I only run super uniques, and thus only provided info on super uniques. While I appreciate the help, I'm also looking for info on mlvl's and TC's of ordinary ol' monsters. For instance, if such information tells me that NM Act 2 Sewers is the best place for chance to drop a certain unique, then the next time I have a character levelling and going after their NM Radament quest, I can *rerun the Sewers a few times and give the unique an opportunity to pop up*.

In fact, I could compile a "list of places to devote extra love to" based on uniques I want. But this would involve knowing more than just the super-unique TC's.

Where can I find info on the TC's of every monster in the game? And if I'm after TC 36 Vipermagi, which super unique WOULD I run? It would appear the Normal A5 super uniques, and early NM A1 super uniques, would be closest, but is Shenk (36), Pindle (39), or Baal (42) a better choice?

Thanks again for all the help!

[adeyke]

The TCs are all multiples of 3. There is no TC 38.

ATMA has already been linked. That'll give you the exact probably of any unique you want dropping from any monster in the game.

The problem with saying what areas are best is that it depends on many factors, including your character. The basic idea is that drop chance per monster multiplied by the monsters killed per time unit gives you the drop chance per time unit. However, different characters will kill quicker and survive better in some areas than in others.

[Raven Vale]

Just for help on the Vipermagi , Meph NM dropped one for me yesterday and I have less than 200% MF on this baby sorc . He is easy to get to and kill at your sort of level , just a matter of plugging away .

Take care

[bernard shakey]

I'd love to have the same info you seek
Pre 1.10 there where many unique lists with best drop probability's.But, with so many changes to treasure classes and chance for normal monsters to drop uniques these lists are pretty inaccurate now I would assume.
Won't someone who knows how create a 1.10 list that shows the best boss and normal monster drop probabilities for a given unique?
It would be very much appreciated and perhaps some sort of Nobel prize could be arranged!

[Zingydex]

I'd love to have the same info you seek
Pre 1.10 there where many unique lists with best drop probability's.But, with so many changes to treasure classes and chance for normal monsters to drop uniques these lists are pretty inaccurate now I would assume.
Won't someone who knows how create a 1.10 list that shows the best boss and normal monster drop probabilities for a given unique?
It would be very much appreciated and perhaps some sort of Nobel prize could be arranged!
[right][snapback]56243[/snapback][/right]

Well, being a frequent ATMA user myself, I can compile a listing of assorted uniques and the monsters most likely to drop them. A couple I've looked up quite frequently and can tell you off the top of my head:

SoJ - NM Andariel
Gull - Normal Coldcrow (superunique in Cave Level 1 below the Cold Plains)

For anything else, I'd need just a little time (to run the drop calculator and take notes), and I'd need to know what you're looking for. The longer the list, the longer it'll take, but I'll manage. And never mind the Nobel Prize. :)

[adeyke]

Well, being a frequent ATMA user myself, I can compile a listing of assorted uniques and the monsters most likely to drop them.  A couple I've looked up quite frequently and can tell you off the top of my head:

SoJ - NM Andariel
Gull - Normal Coldcrow (superunique in Cave Level 1 below the Cold Plains)

For anything else, I'd need just a little time (to run the drop calculator and take notes), and I'd need to know what you're looking for.  The longer the list, the longer it'll take, but I'll manage.  And never mind the Nobel Prize.  :)
[right][snapback]56679[/snapback][/right]

The problem is just that the monster with the highest probability isn't necessarily the best source of an item. You also have to factor in how many of that monster you can kill in a given time and how safe it is to do so. As a hypothetical example, if hell Baal had a 1% chance of dropping something but normal cows had a 0.9% chance, the cows would be much, much better, even though their probability per kill is lower.

[Zingydex]

The problem is just that the monster with the highest probability isn't necessarily the best source of an item. [right][snapback]56693[/snapback][/right]

Nothing saying I can't list more than one monster per item - like I said, those are just the ones I know off the top of my head. For the record, Coldcrow is several times more likely that the next most common dropper of the Gull (Normal Andy), and is about a hundred times easier to get to and kill. Likewise, NM Andariel is far and away the most likely monster to drop the coveted SoJ, and is much easier to wipe out than her nearest competition.

[Count Duckula]

The problem is just that the monster with the highest probability isn't necessarily the best source of an item.  You also have to factor in how many of that monster you can kill in a given time and how safe it is to do so.  As a hypothetical example, if hell Baal had a 1% chance of dropping something but normal cows had a 0.9% chance, the cows would be much, much better, even though their probability per kill is lower.
[right][snapback]56693[/snapback][/right]

I think I'm beginning to understand this.

See, I'm in a similar perdicament. I'd sell my soul for a Goldwrap at this point. (But no active trading or bidding here--the Lounge frowns on that. ^_^) By using ATMA and comparing percentages, I've determined that my best shot at finding a Goldwrap is running NM Act 1 uniques and superuniques, as Blood Raven and Rakanishu and Treehead Woodfist and all those others are high on the list.

Then again, I'm just a silly English major, and all this math stuff is icky. :)

[vmxa]

The problem is just that the monster with the highest probability isn't necessarily the best source of an item.  You also have to factor in how many of that monster you can kill in a given time and how safe it is to do so.  As a hypothetical example, if hell Baal had a 1% chance of dropping something but normal cows had a 0.9% chance, the cows would be much, much better, even though their probability per kill is lower.
[right][snapback]56693[/snapback][/right]

I have seen a few mentions of Cow runs, I thought you can only get Wirt's leg to work once per level?

[adeyke]

I have seen a few mentions of Cow runs, I thought you can only get Wirt's leg to work once per level?
[right][snapback]56916[/snapback][/right]

You can get the leg as often as you want, provided you don't already have a leg in your inventory. You can open the portal with the leg only if you haven't yet completed the cow "quest": killing the cow king. As long as you don't kill him and don't let anyone else kill him while you're there, you can open the portal as often as you want.

[vmxa]

I should have guest as much. I knew you could get the leg any time, but I did not know what the trigger was to end the "quest".

Too late for me, I have finished it in Normal and Nightmare and if I do it in Hell there is no need to reurn. Good to know though, thanks.

[whathuh]

Too late for me, I have finished it in Normal and Nightmare and if I do it in Hell there is no need to reurn. Good to know though, thanks.
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Not necessarily. Normal cows are level 28, dropping up to tc36. This means they can drop half of the lowest quality uniques (chanceguards, gull and others) and some exeptional items, though not unique. Nightmare cows are a whole lot easier than hell cows, and have the chance to drop up to tc60 at level 61, potentially dropping skullder's ire and other uniques. Also they are useful for leveling mercenaries and/or friends.

[vmxa]

whathuh, what you said is correct, but it does not impact what I said. I can only play Normal or NM cow level once and I already have. If I get to Hell cow level, it means I have finished the game, so no reason for me to do (the cow level) it again.

:D