Objects and drops

[gta-maloy]]

I was wondering if I could get a description of what exactly occurs when you open the chest and when items drop. Here's the catch....I need it in a simpler format (jarulf's objects post goes over my head because he mixed it up with mod stuff).

I'd like to know about the sparkling chests in particular as the others are simple and understood by myself. Just can't grasp how the sparkling chests work. (I think Jarulf calls them special chests.)

thanks in advance to anyone that can help.

[whathuh]

I was wondering if I could get a description of what exactly occurs when you open the chest and when items drop. Here's the catch....I need it in a simpler format (jarulf's objects post goes over my head because he mixed it up with mod stuff).

I'd like to know about the sparkling chests in particular as the others are simple and understood by myself. Just can't grasp how the sparkling chests work. (I think Jarulf calls them special chests.)

thanks in advance to anyone that can help.
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Don't take me as an expert, I'm only taking this from what I've read on a few posts here.

When you open a Sparkle chest, there is a chance for each of these possibilities:
1. 2% chance
2. 4% chance
3. 6% chance
4. 20% chance
5. 30% chance
6. 38% chance

1. Unique drop. If the unique fails, it will try again. If that unique fails, it will drop according to 6.
2. Set drop. If the set fails, it will try again. If that set fails, it will drop according to 6.
3. Rare drop. If the rare fails, it will try again. If that rare fails, it will drop according to 6.
4. Magic drop. You get 10 magic item drops. Once the chest drops 3 magical items, it stops dropping anything else.
5. Magic drop. You get 10 magic item drops. Once the chest drops 2 magical items, it stops dropping anything else. It then drops gold piles for 7 - # of failed magic drops before the required 2.
6. Magic drop (fail drop). You get 10 magic item drops. Once the chest drops 1 magical items, it stops dropping anything else. It then drops like a normal chest for 4 - # of failed magic drops before the required 1 (mf works here). Next it makes a 5 gold drops, 2 healing potion drops and 2 mana potion drops.

If this doesn't make sense, tell me what doesn't make sense about it and I'll try to clean it up a bit. If I'm wrong, someone correct me. I still don't understand how normal chests drop or what they have for chances to drop what.

[gta-maloy]]

So basically steps one through five are attempted and if they fail six is attempted but if the pass.....what they more on to step 2. That leaves a huge potential for drops and I don't think 22 items can come out of one of those chests....this is what bogles me.

Also, if say step one is a success, do you still get the gold and potions from step six?

[whathuh]

what they more on to step 2.
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Not understanding am I.

That leaves a huge potential for drops and I don't think 22 items can come out of one of those chests....this is what bogles me.

If this is on chest #6, yes that is a whole bunch of junk dropping. It might not drop all 22, but theres a buttload of stuff that comes out, counting each gold drop as a different one. For chest 6, if you get the magic item on the first attempt of ten, the remaining 9 are aborted. Since there were no failed magic drops, the chest will then drop 4 items with normal mf chances. Then it drops 5 gold piles and 4 potions. As far as I can tell, chest 6 will always drop the last 5 gold piles and 4 potions. It is much more likely than the listed 38% because if 1 2 or 3 fail twice, they become a chest 6

Heres a walkthrough:
Open sparkle chest for chest 2 in Tal Rasha's Tomb
first drop is a sabre.
The ilvl (or mlvl) of the chest is greater than or equal to 17, so a set sabre drops.
Stop.

Another:
Open sparkle chest for chest 1 in Cave level 2
First drop is dagger
The ilvl of chest is less than the qlvl of unique dagger (6)
Triple durability rare dagger drops
Second drop is key
Drops according to chest 6.

I could do more, but thats in the paragraph above. You could end up failing all10 of the drops, resulting in 10 non magic items, 5 gold piles, 4 potions and 2 other items.

[Ruvanal]

Heres a walkthrough:
Open sparkle chest for chest 2 in Tal Rasha's Tomb
first drop is a sabre.
The ilvl (or mlvl) of the chest is greater than or equal to 17, so a set sabre drops.
Stop.

Another:
Open sparkle chest for chest 1 in Cave level 2
First drop is dagger
The ilvl of chest is less than the qlvl of unique dagger (6)
Triple durability rare dagger drops
Second drop is key
Drops according to chest 6.

You are off a little bit on the drops here. It generates the base items to drop by using the appropriate chest TreasureClass for that area but will determine the magical quality by the indexed value you listed instead of determining each seperately as is normally done in drops. It only compares the last item actually generated in chest TC drop to see if it is of the correct quality.

All the chest TCs are set to have 4 potential picks, but they have high NoDrop chance so they will rarely generate 4 items in low player count games.

In your first example the process would stop only if the sabre had been the only (or last) base item generated on the first pass of the chest TCs. This can be made more clear in the second example.

In your second example if on the first TC pass the items generated were Dagger (-> rare due to ilvl) then a key; the key would be compared for the magical quality check and since it fails, there would be a second attempt at items. Say on the second attempt we get 4 picks that are all weapons or armor; since none of them would have an ilvl high enough to qualify as a unique they would end up being 4 rare items that drop. Then since no unique did drop you end up going onto case 6 for generating more items to drop.

Note that where you are saying things like " You get 10 magic item drops."; you are getting up to 10 passes on the Chest TC and it is the last item generated in a TC pass that is compared or counted for hitting having a magic item picked (or unique, set, rare in the first 3 cases). To best see this in action try doing an SP game and going to the Arcane Sanctuary in act2. Clear the level but do not open any of the chest there. Then set the player count to 8 to reduce the NoDrop chance down to a minimum. Then proceed to open the chest at the ends of the 3 flase paths. These are all special chests that drop as you are listing even though their graphic does not 'sparkle'. Then compare what kinds of drops you are seeing with the algorithms listed here. You will likly need to open each chest one at a time and then take time to clear what ends dropping so that you can see what drops from each chest more clearly. You should see quite a few very large items fountains in this process.

[gta-maloy]]

what they more on to step 2

The more should be move but you answered this, thanks.

[whathuh]

So an incredibly lucky item drop could be:
3 unique items +nonunique last,
3 more unique items + nonunique last,
10 sets of 3 unique items and a nonmagic last,
5 gold piles and 4 potions.

The main reason I gave the sabre situation is because I have found just one item from these special chests tons of times, holding only a unique/set/rare.

[gta-maloy]]

So an incredibly lucky item drop could be:
3 unique items +nonunique last,
3 more unique items + nonunique last,
10 sets of 3 unique items and a nonmagic last,
5 gold piles and 4 potions.

The main reason I gave the sabre situation is because I have found just one item from these special chests tons of times, holding only a unique/set/rare.
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That would be NUTS, 36 items, 33 being unique.....this is what I originally thought as impossible :S

Edit: 48 items, 10 non-magical, 2 non--unique.

[Ruvanal]

So an incredibly lucky item drop could be:
3 unique items +nonunique last,
3 more unique items + nonunique last,
10 sets of 3 unique items and a nonmagic last,
5 gold piles and 4 potions.

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No, but close and it does require an extreamly long sequence of fairly exact event to occur.

It would instead be
3 unique items + nonunique last,
3 more unique items + nonunique last,
10 sets of 3 magic items and a +misc/junk last,
5 gold piles and 4 potions.

The +misc/junk would need to be things like gold piles, runes, potions, gems, arrows/bolts, scrolls, etc. Items that are never have any magical value associated with them.

The switch to case 6 would be making the remaining drop with a default value of magic instead of unique.

The main reason I gave the sabre situation is because I have found just one item from these special chests tons of times, holding only a unique/set/rare.

This is most likely due to popping these chests in games that are at a player count of 1 for determining the NoDrop value to use. In a single player game the distribution items picke to NoDrops tend to favor a chest only dropping 0 or 1 item per pass of the chest TC even though the chest TCs have 4 picks in them (strong bias for the item drop count to be 1 at this player count level out of the possible range of 0-4 items generated). This is most likely why you end up seeing only the one item dropped as it is kept track of even if it generated on the first of the 4 picks and the remaining 3 end up NoDrops.

If you push the player count up to 8 (which would actually require 8 partied players together in same named area) the NoDrop value would be adjusted to a much smaller number and you would typically see a pass of the chest TCs generating 4 and sometimes 3 items per pass of chest TC. The /player8 setting in SP would be somewhat inbetween and you should see typically 2-3 items dropped from each pass of a chest TC. That is why I suggested using that setting earlier to better see the results of popping special chests and pointed to the one area of the game that is far richer in the number of special chest than any other area in all the acts (should be between 10 and 15 special chests in the AS from what I remember of the layouts of the false end sections).

gta-maloy]:

That would be NUTS, 36 items, 33 being unique.....this is what I originally thought as impossible :S

Edit: 48 items, 10 non-magical, 2 non--unique.

As I noted here, most would actually be magical not unique in this extreme case. Also note that the odds of getting such an event of such magnitude are extremly remote. A more modest amount of about half that size can sometimes be encountered in higher player count games though. I have personally had several incidents of getting 4 or 5 rares and about a dozen magic items to go with them from a single special chest drop. I was even 'lucky' enough to have had a 6 unique drop (with 1 misc item) once, but they were all uniques that have no real value to player desires. :rolleyes:

It is also worth noting right now that when using the <ALT> key to display items that only 32 items that are on the screen will have a text displayed for them. You would need to pick up some of the items to clear list space to see all that actually dropped. This is why sometimes players find a nice item on the cow level 10 to 15 minutes after a run game; the nice item was too far down on most players display lists to end up being shown at first. After some item decay set in the list was low enough for a later player to see the item.

[whathuh]

No, but close and it does require an extreamly long sequence of fairly exact event to occur.

It would instead be
3 unique items + nonunique last,
3 more unique items + nonunique last,
10 sets of 3 magic items and a +misc/junk last,
5 gold piles and 4 potions.
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So there is no way for the last set according to chest 6 to be unique? I thought it dropped like a normal chest, allowing mf to work.

[Ruvanal]

So there is no way for the last set according to chest 6 to be unique?&nbsp; I thought it dropped like a normal chest, allowing mf to work.
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The magic find is not used at all through the whole process.

[whathuh]

The magic find is not used at all through the whole process.
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Well thats a neat way to mf without mf...

[gta-maloy]]

Well thats a neat way to mf without mf...
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I guess they though the initial six possibilities as good enough?

I think it would be better to have the last ten sets MF capable....but that's me :P

[Little Faith]

I know this guide primarily focuses on rune-finding, but it is extremely thorough, almost Jarulfesque and thus touches on a lot of other drop-related topics, including sparkly chests.


http://www.flightsofsplendor.com/diabloII/...39;s_RFG_v2.xls

Found it on Diabloii.net's forums BTW. Another proof they are not total barbarians over there.

[Jarulf]

I guess they though the initial six possibilities as good enough?

I think it would be better to have the last ten sets MF capable....but that's me :P

The main reason for the strange behaviour of those chests is that the routine for it is an old remnant from the old initial item creation system which did not use, for example, treasure classes (as we know them). It has simply never been remade to fit well into the new system.

[gta-maloy]]

I know this guide primarily focuses on rune-finding, but it is extremely thorough, almost Jarulfesque and thus touches on a lot of other drop-related topics, including sparkly chests.
http://www.flightsofsplendor.com/diabloII/...39;s_RFG_v2.xls

Found it on Diabloii.net's forums BTW. Another proof they are not total barbarians over there.
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I was well aware of that guide, it caused the initial confusion with special chest drops. Jarulf's crazy object page was similar but didn't agree with everything said. This has been cleared up now though.

thanks for all the above answers.....it's too bad that six is the highest possible amount of uniqes but runes can come out with them :P

[Ruvanal]

thanks for all the above answers.....it's too bad that six is the highest possible amount of uniqes but runes can come out with them :P
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Actually its seven.

Unique
Unique
Unique
misc non-unique type item like a rune.
(test fails, does second pass)
Unique
Unique
Unique
Unique
(test succeeds, end drop).

[Jarulf]

I know this guide primarily focuses on rune-finding, but it is extremely thorough, almost Jarulfesque and thus touches on a lot of other drop-related topics, including sparkly chests.
http://www.flightsofsplendor.com/diabloII/...39;s_RFG_v2.xls

Found it on Diabloii.net's forums BTW. Another proof they are not total barbarians over there.
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Cool, a guide in an Excel file, complete with formulas, graphs and all. I love it :)

[gta-maloy]]

Cool, a guide in an Excel file, complete with formulas, graphs and all. I love it :)
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Except the fact that he didn't get this part right (special objects) I find this guide very usefull. I even translated parts of it over to the bnet forums. I need to mention that he was wrong though :S

[whathuh]

Found it on Diabloii.net's forums BTW. Another proof they are not total barbarians over there.
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Their site sure is barbaric. I used to use it all the time until I realized how awful the data representation is. Then again, AS got a major upgrade too, leaving diabloii.net in the dust. Their diablo2 cube recipies page for 1.10 shows tempering recipies...