Class "roles"

[Bolty]

Many of you have asked about your role in groups. I'd like to address that question today. The developers have attempted to make as few rock-hard “roles” as possible; all classes should complement each other. A priest is not just a “heal-bot”. When there are classes that can tank and classes that can heal, however, role definition does appear in some form. Please don’t take this post as the One True Way to Play. Explore all the abilities open to your class. Experiment with different class combinations in groups. We’re not telling you how to play the game – one of the fascinating practices of this genre is the ingenuity exercised by the players every day!

Druid
The Druid has three potential roles in a group. When in their normal, biped form, they act well as a healer and can give support in the form of buffs and debuffs; they also have limited crowd control against dragons. Their Bear form gives them offensive and defensive power enough to step up to a monster and take the hits (we’re looking into aggro management for the form). In Cat form, the Druid becomes a damage dealer. This trio of roles in one class gives the Druid a diverse feel and allows them to perform nearly any role perceived as “needed” in a party.

Hunter
The Hunter is a vicious damage dealer. With their ability to pull extremely well and hit monsters hard from far away, they certainly help take down monsters more quickly. Their pets add to the damage count and can aid somewhat in managing monster aggro. The variety of traps allows the Hunter to control crowds to an extent, as well. The combination of their extreme range, decent damage, and trap capability, Hunters are the perfect pullers for any group.

Mage
When seeking someone to introduce monsters to a world of pain, the Mage is a good choice. With their elemental and arcane attacks, it’s a safe bet something they can do won’t be resisted by your chosen enemy. Damage is the name of the Mage game, and they do it well. Their arsenal includes some powerful crowd control spells, also, giving them the ability to keep hordes at bay -- in fact, these abilities can be used on the most common creatures in the game, thus making them extremely valuable for this purpose.

Paladin
Paladins are the consummate knights in shining armor, meant to be in the thick of things. Their defensive abilities allow them to stand toe to toe with monsters and take a beating – they are tanks overall. This is not the sole purpose of a Paladin, of course; their auras, seals, heals and rez give them the chance to act as a support healer. (Keep in mind that the Paladin will be seeing much love in the form of Talents and other improvements soon – the above is the spirit behind the Paladin.)

Priest
With their dedication to their faith, the Priests of Azeroth mend and defend their fellow man. Healing and support is most assuredly the Priest’s main draw. Additionally, they have crowd control abilities against the Undead that can save lives. Their Shadow powers are not to be ignored, though; a Shadow-specialized Priest can cause considerable damage if played well.

Rogue
The stealthy Rogue is an up-close damage dealer. Like the Mage, they can rip through mobs quickly and brutally using their wide range of combination moves. They are also worthy scouts, being able to sneak past monsters if they are skilled enough to see what lies beyond. And there’s no one better than a Rogue at the end of a dungeon when a locked chest or door stands between you and hard-earned riches.

Shaman
The old phrase “jack of all trades, master of none” is an excellent way to describe the Shaman; they are the only real “hybrid” class in World of Warcraft. While they do not excel at any one aspect of their repertoire, they function passing well when performing most tasked called upon by a party. Need a support healer? Looking for a secondary tank? After another damage-dealer? Have an empty slot that needs someone to support the group in general? The Shaman can provide. They have a number of utility spells as well that help make life easier for any party.

Warlock
Warlocks have both powerful damage spells (primarily dealing over time) and debuff spells that work well in conjunction with each other and with the abilities of their groupmates. They have Curses for many occasions; in fact, they can easily be considered the best debuffers in the game. Their pets, too, help with the damage dealing and grant the Warlock extra abilities to put to use. They can also control crowds well with Seduction and Banish, and provide limited support in the form of their summoned stones.

Warrior
The Warrior can be a defensive, shielded tank, a damage-dealing powerhouse, or a mixture of the two. Their abilities obviously pertain to the art of close combat; their stances carry with them different moves for different situations and party setups. All in all, the Warrior is one of the prime candidates to capture and hold the attention of creatures while they die to sword and spell.

Please keep in mind that there is not meant to be one "master" of any role. In a game with this many classes, our goal is to make the classes roughly equal in efficiency when filling the roles they're meant to fill, though the gameplay experience may vary between classes. Tanks are not meant to be carbon copies of each other, for example; they should all fill that role efficiently, however, enough so that they are viable and wanted in groups for that role. Each crowd control class should be able to manage small groups at times; they may simply be more effective in certain situations. We are aware that some classes do not currently fill the roles given to them; the development team is hard at work bringing them closer to their planned purpose.

(I have also started a thread in each Class Forum with the appropriate role information. If you'd like to give the developers feedback on your specific class, do so there, too! :) )

(see the post here.)

Blizzard seems to forget a few things in this post. Just taking Warlocks as an example, they don't mention that the Voidwalker is a great add-remover and that Banish is fairly useless now.

Thoughts? I think that the Warrior is the backbone of the game. In my experience these past months, when playing for difficult quests, it's quite possible to do it without a warrior, but in every case having a dedicated warrior tank makes things so much easier.

-Bolty

[Tal]

I think that the chances of a pally being a viable tank are about nil now.

[Artega]

They described the Shaman well. Their Armor and Defense aren't as great as that of a Warrior of comparable level, but they have a useful healing spell (Healing Wave), several good damage-dealing spells (Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock, Flame Shock), and their totems (which are a fscking PAIN IN THE ASS to get - ever try getting your Fire Totem?) can do all sorts of nifty things, including drawing aggro, healing, reducing damage taken, and even causing damage (does this make it draw aggro?)

I got invited into a fairly large clan while in the Stress Test simply because I was a Shaman, and there were so very few around.

[Guest]

Warriors seem like the Paldins of DAoC. Any PvE group in DAoC wanted a paladin because it made everything simple. The ability to hold all the agro and take a beating makes life very easy and straight foward for a group.

You can make a group work many ways but with a good agro tank and a heal class it lets everyone get in a simple pattern for the vast majority of fights.

But in a way I think thats not so good for the excitment factor.

[Saxywoo]

Warriors seem like the Paldins of DAoC.  Any PvE group in DAoC wanted a paladin because it made everything simple.  The ability to hold all the agro and take a beating makes life very easy and straight foward for a group.

You can make a group work many ways but with a good agro tank and a heal class it lets everyone get in a simple pattern for the vast majority of fights.

But in a way I think thats not so good for the excitment factor.
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But the problem is when you have a paladin doubling up as a tank and a healer, as can happen sometimes, you have the stuttered casting of Holy Light. Which can then make the "Healing Tank" concept more of a hinderence than a help, if the situation is severe enough. Because the healing aura only works when you're not engaged in combat.

I think that Paladins are best as the secondary tank, who can pull the aggro off of the true healers in a group. With our seals, we should be able to boost the threat of the primary tank, and decrease the threat of the healers, even if it is for 30 seconds at a time.


SaxyCorp

[Guest]

Umm ya... ok? Youre probably right about Paladins in WoW. Im not sure what that has to do with my quote though.

I was addressing the dynamic of warriors in WoW groups.

[Bolty]

Warriors seem like the Paldins of DAoC.  Any PvE group in DAoC wanted a paladin because it made everything simple.  The ability to hold all the agro and take a beating makes life very easy and straight foward for a group.

You can make a group work many ways but with a good agro tank and a heal class it lets everyone get in a simple pattern for the vast majority of fights.

But in a way I think thats not so good for the excitment factor.
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Yeah, so much of the discussion in WoW has been about the "holy trinity" - Warrior with taunt, Priest with Heal, Mage/Rogue for damage. As a result, the other classes are shunned somewhat. This becomes more apparent as you get to higher level instances. If you're a Warrior or Priest, finding groups is a cinch. I've seen groups prefer having 2 mages instead of 1 mage and 1 other class, which is no fun, but oh well.

I was in an Uldaman group recently with a gang of level 41-47 characters, and 2 of them had mentioned that they had NEVER partied with a Warlock in an instance! They weren't even sure what I could do. This is because Warlocks aren't aggro holders, healers, or damage dealers. The class falls very firmly in the "other" category, bringing intangibles to a party that, taken separately, seem useless - but grouped with other classes, become quite deadly. The one thing I love about Warlocks is that we can party with ANY other class and complement it via the numerous different curses, minions, and crowd control. But I digress.

This is why being with Lurkers is much preferred - we're capable of thinking outside the box. But even still, the temptation to just pick up a Warrior and a Priest for easier instance runs is so high.

-Bolty

[lemekim]

Yeah, so much of the discussion in WoW has been about the "holy trinity" - Warrior with taunt, Priest with Heal, Mage/Rogue for damage.  As a result, the other classes are shunned somewhat.  This becomes more apparent as you get to higher level instances.  If you're a Warrior or Priest, finding groups is a cinch.  I've seen groups prefer having 2 mages instead of 1 mage and 1 other class, which is no fun, but oh well.

I was in an Uldaman group recently with a gang of level 41-47 characters, and 2 of them had mentioned that they had NEVER partied with a Warlock in an instance!  They weren't even sure what I could do.  This is because Warlocks aren't aggro holders, healers, or damage dealers.  The class falls very firmly in the "other" category, bringing intangibles to a party that, taken separately, seem useless - but grouped with other classes, become quite deadly.  The one thing I love about Warlocks is that we can party with ANY other class and complement it via the numerous different curses, minions, and crowd control.  But I digress.

This is why being with Lurkers is much preferred - we're capable of thinking outside the box.  But even still, the temptation to just pick up a Warrior and a Priest for easier instance runs is so high.

-Bolty
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Well Bolty, your holy trinity is actually a bit flawed =) Rogue should not be in there, it's never the case in high end instances really. BRS, BRD, Stratholme need good AoE class, and warlocks/mages are the only ones. Warlocks actually are good damage dealers, and their AoE is quite good as well, but given a choice people usually choose mage, because of various utilities - although the DPS that a warlock can provide can pretty much match mage's. It's the litte things - food/water, Int buff, best CC in game that make up people's minds. The abundance of mages and limited amount of warlocks doesn't help either.

Now, if someone chooses another mage instead of a warlock, that person is an idiot, since warlock will bring much more to the table then another mage.

Rogues... we fall somewhere down on the list "what class should I pick since we already have warrior/priest/mage(or warlock!) Right now they are almost purely used for damage dealing, and since they require so little downtime and can sustain damage, they are often welcome in raids (where the only worry usually is killing fast enough). In groups though, their DPS is matched by mage or warlock (unless you happen to have "godly" equipment), but the lack of any other utility makes them a tough choice. Scouting/lockpicking? Haha. Sap is marginally useful in instances, right now its pretty much just a soloing helper.

Hunters... Haha poor guys they are the ones who are left out in the cold. Their damage is not as high, their utilities are lacking. I'm waiting for talents though to see if they will go from pretty gimped class to a powerhouse (or maybe Blizzard figured out how to add talents without making class overpowered).

[Guest]

I think the problem may be the word "trinity", perhaps its time for a new cliche. :)

-spot 1 warrior
-spot 2 priest(maybe a healing talent druid?)
-spot3-5 any high damage class can fit.

1 or 2 specific high damage classes may work best. But any classes in the game can get by fine as long as you have a WARRIOR and HEALER.

What will be interesting is if people can find some sustainable ultra high dps systems. People will be looking for the fastest way to level, and the purest DPS groups will level the fastest if they can figure out tactics to stay alive.

[MongoJerry]

I think that the chances of a pally being a viable tank are about nil now.

The Blizzard employee who posted the list has reminded people repeatedly that what the list shows is what Blizzard developers intend for classes and not necesarily what they are now. If a class currently does not match its overall role, then they will be changed to make sure that they do.

In the case of the pally, it's a half-finished class, so of course, it's not going to currently be capable of playing out its role effectively. I understand from some of the previews of the upcoming patch that paladins will be getting some aggro management tools (skills and/or talents) in the upcoming patch.

I was in an Uldaman group recently with a gang of level 41-47 characters, and 2 of them had mentioned that they had NEVER partied with a Warlock in an instance! They weren't even sure what I could do. This is because Warlocks aren't aggro holders, healers, or damage dealers. The class falls very firmly in the "other" category

In the high level instances, where the more experienced players play, warlocks are highly desired classes in instances now. Part of this is that the high level instances are far away, and people are lazy and want summons instead of traveling all the way there, and part because warlocks now provide a lot to a group. The default five-person group setup that I see people in the high level instances attempt to get is: warrior/priest/mage/warlock/paladin. If no paladins are abvailable, then sub in a druid or priest. If someone wants to give their rogue friend a break, then sub in a rogue for either the mage or warlock.

Hunters... Haha poor guys they are the ones who are left out in the cold. Their damage is not as high, their utilities are lacking. I'm waiting for talents though to see if they will go from pretty gimped class to a powerhouse (or maybe Blizzard figured out how to add talents without making class overpowered).

Again, it's a half-finished class -- actually far more unfinished than paladins. Pandarus is in the mid-40's now and deals quite a bit of damage and does quite well in groups, including not only providing dps but also crowd control with the pet tanking one or more mobs. Currently, of course, the lack of talents, high level skills, and high level guns and bows means that their dps falls off rapidly in comparison to other character classes. But that's not an overall design issue. It's purely an implementation issue and when the next patch introduces talents and some other "luv'n" for hunters that they've talked about, I think you'll see hunters asked for in instances much more often.

Actually, with some of the things they've hinted at regarding hunters, I'm starting to wonder if mages will have any role in a party. Maybe people will make high level mage alts in order to give free water and food out to groups in the beginning so that groups won't have to carry around a gimpy mage.

[Magicbag]

While I am concerned about high end long range mage view, at 45, I'm having a blast. The versatility and power we bring to the table in groups is great. Water, transport, high burst, AoE, good CC, remove curse, etc. You don't necessarily NEED all those things, but they are really handy.

Compare that to say a rogue and the choice becomes easy I think. Which is kinda sad for rogues. What do they bring to the high end?

For overall balance I'm a little concerned that the effect of high-level equipment on tanks and hitters is much greater than the effect on casters. We are essentially a function of our training where warriors are a function of their equipment. In high level loot, I hope to see some interesting effects like increased crit chance, or something ... more diverse equipment options are always cool.
-MB