Einstein and his Theory of Relativity....

[Yrrek]

A group of astro-physicists in Italy have confirmed the existince of
"frame-warping."

Clicky

[Chaerophon]

I'm not a physicist, but wow. That's pretty neat. Space is cool :D I'll bet this is right up Pete's ally.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm not a physicist, but wow.  That's pretty neat.  Space is cool :D  I'll bet this is right up Pete's ally.
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More avocational than vocational. And, being semi-retired, maybe not even that :)

It is pretty neat stuff, especially in that it shows that some of the more 'weird' extrapolations of general relativity are slightly more probable. That FTL ship may still be in our future :)

However, nothing ever 'proves' a theory. At most, it offers an additional case which the theory supports. Indeed, as time goes by I become more and more convinced that all of our theories will be just 'models' and none will ever fully explain the phenomena. At each stage, the models will open lines of investigation which will uncover phenomena that will require a yet more complex model to describe. I used to agree with Einstein but no longer -- I now think that nature is, fundamentally, unknowable. The good news is that if an immortality drug were discovered, I could still have a job 'for life'. :)

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

Hi,
More avocational than vocational.  And, being semi-retired, maybe not even that :)

It is pretty neat stuff, especially in that it shows that some of the more 'weird' extrapolations of general relativity are slightly more probable.  That FTL ship may still be in our future :)

However, nothing ever 'proves' a theory.  At most, it offers an additional case which the theory supports.  Indeed, as time goes by I become more and more convinced that all of our theories will be just 'models' and none will ever fully explain the phenomena.  At each stage, the models will open lines of investigation which will uncover phenomena that will require a yet more complex model to describe.  I used to agree with Einstein but no longer -- I now think that nature is, fundamentally, unknowable.  The good news is that if an immortality drug were discovered, I could still have a job 'for life'. :)

--Pete
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The hard question on that immortality drug is . . . would it just extend the Depenz years for a few too many centuries? Or would it work along the lines of the "May you stay forever young" lyrical postulate? :blink:

[Guest]

does it matter? what has the theory of relativity done for us lately?

[Guest]

  At each stage, the models will open lines of investigation which will uncover phenomena that will require a yet more complex model to describe. 
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Or maybe best models become simpler progressively, it just takes longer to find them with each step.

Both theories of relativity are as simple as Newtons laws, but they are harder grasp from the perspective our senses opperate in.

[Munkay]

does it matter? what has the theory of relativity done for us lately?
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Pardon the question, but are you the ever wonderful UnrealShadow reincarnated? :P

To answer your question, what hasn't it done?!

A serious question always warrants a serious answer. :)

Cheers,

Munk

[Guest]

whatever dude all i'm saying is that I don't really care about stuff slowing down when we go fast or whatever I don't think it will matter.

[Guest]

You mean you dont understand what we are talking about.


You see the link is about the general theory.
But your comment "whatever dude all i'm saying is that I don't really care about stuff slowing down when we go fast or whatever I don't think it will matter." appears to be a confused reference to the special theory of relativity.

I wondered if your original comment was subtlely clever as there are few applications of the general theory. But now I know better. The special theory is integral to technology all around us.

[kandrathe]

Pardon the question, but are you the ever wonderful UnrealShadow reincarnated? :P

To answer your question, what hasn't it done?!

A serious question always warrants a serious answer. :)

Cheers,

Munk
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Yup. You win the "I smell a rat" award.

[--Pete]

does it matter? what has the theory of relativity done for us lately?
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Only to intelligent people. And GPS.

--Pete

[Yrrek]

Heh, something tells me he won't last as long this time.... :P

[--Pete]

Hi,

Both theories of relativity are as simple as Newtons laws, but they are harder grasp from the perspective our senses opperate in.
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Newton's laws: simple partial differential equations in Euclidean space. Material that could be covered in a senior high school math class. Even the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formulations can be worked out by college sophomores. All general cases have either been solved (i.e., the constants of the motion have been developed) or the impossibility of a general solution has been shown.

Special relativity: adds rotational invariance in Lorentz space. Primarily a description of electrodynamics, so no real comparison to Newton is possible (in effect, special relativity still occurs in a Newtonian space -- Euclidean and with action at a distance for gravity). Real understanding requires math at about a sophomore to junior college level. Many real situations are neither solved nor shown to be insolvable.

General relativity: takes one completely out of a Euclidean space. Requires a pretty good grasp of advanced geometry. Few schools have an undergraduate course in this field that even begins to really cover it. Few undergraduates have enough math sophistication to even realize their ignorance. A few special cases have been solved, but most cases are still beyond the ability of NOBEL level physicists.

"As simple as Newtons laws"? Possibly, in the sense that if one is ignorant of all of them, they are all the same.

--Pete

[Guest]

No. Are they hard to translate into out perspective? - yes.

Special Relativity is not nearly as complicated as you infer. The math to actually work with it is fairly complex, but conceptually its easy to grasp.
Im not supposing I would have derived it myself, but once it was explained to me, even I was able to see it as an obvious conclusion of Maxwells Laws and light speed.

I admit I dont intuatively understand General Relativity like I understand Special Relativity, but I believe that is even more removed from the perception out sense work in.

I have great respect the better minds that that can either intuatively grasp more than me and for the better minds that are comfortable understanding in the abstract.
But I think it is a case of great minds being able to handle a larger perspective rather than a more complicated subject.

[Doc]

But...

Have they proven that a minute getting a prostate exam is actually longer then an hour that I spend with my beautiful wife? Get back to me when they have a full explanation of this particular bit. Never has a minute felt more like eternity... And never has an hour been so short.

[Occhidiangela]

But...

Have they proven that a minute getting a prostate exam is actually longer then an hour that I spend with my beautiful wife? Get back to me when they have a full explanation of this particular bit. Never has a minute felt more like eternity... And never has an hour been so short.
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Well, Doc, thanks for that visual. Just had lunch, and can only say

"Holdonaminnitthere, doctor, did you really only use one finger?"

The price of age's wisdom, it seems, is eligiblity for rectal probes. Is that even remotely fair? I suppose it is a balancing to the joys of menopause that our female colleagues in age so look forward to . . . misery loves company.

Occhi

[WarLocke]

does it matter? what has the theory of relativity done for us lately?
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... and to get back on topic, that's pretty neat. B)

[Occhidiangela]

... and to get back on topic, that's pretty neat.  B)


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As you well know, no thread is safe from hijacking on the Lounge.
:wacko:

Occhi