Why do you like WoW?

[Yav]

I have not played MMORPG's before WoW. I played the euro-beta for a week or so, but quit because it felt like a waste of time. I don't understand what's the point. I'm a big fan of Warcraft 3 and have been playing it actively for two years, so I thought I might like WoW, but that's not the case. Gah, it seems like I can't explain exactly what's wrong. I'll jump around from one point to another, try to bear with this mess.

Well, I liked WC3 mostly because of the competition, it's always fun to get better and better in something and compete with others. Is there such an element in WoW? Of course there's a skill element in PvP, but how important is it? Does the "stronger" character usually win? What I've read, it's largely about the match-up ie. some classes simply beat up others.

I thought that it'd be fun to enter a fantasy world, so to speak. I don't know what it is, but I never seem to get the same feel of immersion as when I read a book or even play a pen & paper RPG. Perhaps it's different in the RPG servers. Where I played, there was far too much things that reminded me of it being just a game (stupid people, respawning of monsters [I should probably elaborate here], inane quests etc) .

WoW takes so much time. If I am to get anywhere I need to spend vast amounts of time on it. And if I don't, I can't really play with my friends because they'll be so far ahead of me. Also, it's easy to get caught playing. When I've spent hours hunting different creeps and running around doing repetitive quests I can really feel my life draining away. It's not even fun.

The social aspect is one of the main attractions in WoW and MMORPG's in general, I would think. That's one aspect that doesn't appeal to me (I don't get along with people generally and am somewhat of a hermit) so I'm better off playing single player RPG's with well-written stories.

I hate running/flying around! It feels like such an awful waste of time.

The reason I wrote this is because I'd like to hear what is it that you like about WoW, why do you play it? What makes it fun? What am I missing? I certainly don't mean to mock WoW or its fans. Anyway, I only played it to lvl 20, is the real fun in high levels and if so, what would that be? I have limited free time, why should I spend it on playing WoW instead of reading for example?

(Why can't I express my thoughts better?)

[Taeme]

I like WoW because it's D2 in 3D with better partying and more challenge. Monsters sure do fight a lot tougher to survive in this game. Why do people like D2? The addictiveness of killing a monster and getting a bigger weapon with which to kill a bigger monster and get an even bigger weapon.

Oh and I really enjoy eating gnomes with my undead.

[--Pete]

Hi,

You're not 'missing' anything.

The reason to play WoW is the same as the reason to partake in any lesiure activity, that you enjoy it. While it may be possible to make a list of attributes you enjoy, it is seldom possible to 'justify' enjoying them. Thus, if you don't enjoy MMORPGs in general or WoW in particular, there is no need to explain it. It is just the way it is. And no amount of descriptions about the graphics, the game play, etc., etc., will change it.

--Pete

[Cryptic]

Hmm. It sounds like the game you're waiting for is Guild Wars, not WoW. Otherwise I would recommend waiting until battlegrounds come into play, which would probably fit your play style better.

[rocdog]

The social aspect is one of the main attractions of MMORPGs. If you don't enjoy spending time interacting with others in a virtual or any other type of setting, much of WoW's appeal is lost.

You'd probably be better off with a book if you haven't enjoyed your experience thus far.

[Occhidiangela]

The social aspect is one of the main attractions in WoW and MMORPG's in general, I would think.  That's one aspect that doesn't appeal to me (I don't get along with people generally and am somewhat of a hermit) so I'm better off playing single player RPG's with well-written stories.
*snip*
(Why can't I express my thoughts better?)
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Do you realize that you answered your question, at least in part, before you asked it? ;)

In any case, don't feel as though you "should" like WoW just because it is set in the Warcraft world. RPG/MMORPG games each offer a different flavor to gamers, which is a distinctly different flavor than RTS.

As Cryptic notes, you might want to look into Guild Wars for several reasons.

1. No monthly fee
2. Level grind ends at 20
3. PvP has a greater focus.
4. TEAM PvP is the focus. Caveat: You may again find that your preferences as a "Lone Ranger" being the limiting factor in your depth of enjoyment.

I have yet to fall in love with WoW, but that is partly due to lack of time to play budgeted agianst other things that I do. You are right, it takes some immersion and a serious time investment to "get into" the game.

My Two Lire

Occhi

[malphigian]

Well, no one is going to convince you to like a game, most likely. Could very well be it's just not for you.

Well, I liked WC3 mostly because of the competition, it's always fun to get better and better in something and compete with others. Is there such an element in WoW? Of course there's a skill element in PvP, but how important is it? Does the "stronger" character usually win? What I've read, it's largely about the match-up ie. some classes simply beat up others.

Definitely not true. If you exclude level from the equation (a character with a significant level advantage will indeed usually win), there is a lot of skill in PvP. Yes, it's easier for some classes than others (or, more accurately, some classes have an easier time against certain other classes). It takes a significant amount of skill, though, in my opinion, to know all of your skills, when to use them, how to use them, and to properly assess what your enemy is doing. Every battle I think of half a dozen things I could have done differently/better, even when I win, that is not the sign of a skill-free fight.

WoW takes so much time. If I am to get anywhere I need to spend vast amounts of time on it. And if I don't, I can't really play with my friends because they'll be so far ahead of me. Also, it's easy to get caught playing. When I've spent hours hunting different creeps and running around doing repetitive quests I can really feel my life draining away. It's not even fun.

Well, there's a self control aspect too. You could get a character to 10 in a day, and then only play him a couple hours a week and be 60 in 5 months thanks to rest state. It's a long time, but it's a lot more casual play friendly than other MMOs.

I personally find the quests provide a great structure. I'm confused why you keep playing if you think it's not even fun. Heh.

The social aspect is one of the main attractions in WoW and MMORPG's in general, I would think. That's one aspect that doesn't appeal to me (I don't get along with people generally and am somewhat of a hermit) so I'm better off playing single player RPG's with well-written stories.

Sounds like MMOs definitely aren't for you :). Blizzard generally keeps the story entertaining, but also very tongue-in-cheek, it's not a role players game in any real sense I can think of.

The reason I wrote this is because I'd like to hear what is it that you like about WoW, why do you play it? What makes it fun? What am I missing? I certainly don't mean to mock WoW or its fans. Anyway, I only played it to lvl 20, is the real fun in high levels and if so, what would that be? I have limited free time, why should I spend it on playing WoW instead of reading for example?

If you haven't had any fun getting to 20, I think it's a safe bet you're not going to have any fun with the rest of the game. Although it's worth mentioning some of us would be pretty bored if we weren't on the PvP server, and that doesn't kick in until after 20. Of course, 20-30 is the absolute roughest time on the PvP server, since you're at the bottom of the pile.

What's fun about it I feel has been said over and over: a beautifully art directed/crafted world that's fun to explore, quests (inane as many of them may be) that keep your momentum going and give constant goals, excellent character class design that allows everyone to solo, and manages to make you feel like a badass even at low levels. I also love the PvP, as it adds a lot of tension to questing and traveling, I never just let my guard down and grind.

But honestly, if none of that has hit you at all in the first 20 levels, it's not going to, I'd just find another game. Plenty of good ones out there. :P.

[Treesh]

I thought that it'd be fun to enter a fantasy world, so to speak. I don't know what it is, but I never seem to get the same feel of immersion as when I read a book or even play a pen & paper RPG. Perhaps it's different in the RPG servers. Where I played, there was far too much things that reminded me of it being just a game (stupid people, respawning of monsters [I should probably elaborate here], inane quests etc) .[right][snapback]65815[/snapback][/right]

It's not really different on the RP servers either, although to be fair, I stopped playing on them when I saw how little RP was actually done on the servers and no, I'm not talking about lack of Middle English-type speech. In fact, there was too much of that. This is World of Warcraft. Do you hear the NPCs using that type of language? Did you hear it in any of the WarCraft games? No. Why in the world would you think that it fits in World of Warcraft as roleplaying then?! But I'm digressing.

It really isn't immersive for me either. Oh there are the occasional flashes, but nothing really great. Maybe if the crafting was better, or if you were allowed to be a crafter only, that would improve for me. Maybe if you could actually affect the world through questing or crafting, the immersion would improve. As it is right now, it's really not an immersive game to me. It's more of a hack-n-slash where I have to deal with a lot of people.

The social aspect is one of the main attractions in WoW and MMORPG's in general, I would think. That's one aspect that doesn't appeal to me (I don't get along with people generally and am somewhat of a hermit) so I'm better off playing single player RPG's with well-written stories.[right][snapback]65815[/snapback][/right]

Despite my ever so frequent cries of "I hate people" when I'm playing, we actually bought it partly because of the social aspect of it and partly because it doesn't completely suck. GG and I knew a lot of people who were going to play it and we wanted to continue playing games with them so we bought it. The hack-n-slash is fun enough and the UI isn't that horrible. I used to think it was really bad, but then I beta tested Wish before they pulled the plug on the project. Now, I appreciate WoW's UI much more. :) The crafting is severely lacking in my opinion, but if the need to craft things gets too great, I bust out the construction set editor for Morrowind and go to town. :)

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with just playing good singleplayer games. I still enjoy Morrowind and its expansions, but I also like to spend time interacting with my husband and my friends/buddies so I like to have multiplayer options as well.

The reason I wrote this is because I'd like to hear what is it that you like about WoW, why do you play it? What makes it fun? What am I missing? I certainly don't mean to mock WoW or its fans. Anyway, I only played it to lvl 20, is the real fun in high levels and if so, what would that be? I have limited free time, why should I spend it on playing WoW instead of reading for example?

(Why can't I express my thoughts better?)
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If you have limited free time (as so many people do), I can't really think of any support for spending it playing WoW instead of reading or any other hobby that you enjoy. MMORPGs are definitely not for everyone, and they really aren't the same as RTS games either, even WarCraft3. You gave it a try, found out you didn't like it, there's no harm in that. I hated WoW after I tried the first US stress test, absolutely hated it, but since Tal was in closed beta he was able to keep me apprised of the changes made to the parts of the game I hated the most so I gave it another try when the next stress test and then open beta came around. Enough had changed between the first stress test and open that I no longer felt it totally blew. Since Europe's beta testing seems to be basically the same as US release (with some early preview of things), I think it's probably a better litmus test to see if you will enjoy it or not than what I tested.

[savaughn]

See, now, I find WoW completely immersive. I completely relate to my characters and on a fairly regular basis when I walk into a new area I find myself just stopping to look at stuff. And the little touches are brilliant. I love the fact that the default camera position matches your height so if you move the camera right behind your dwarf/gnome you end up looking up at everything and the world seems taller. And most computer RPGs aren't role playing at all, they line you up with the story they want to tell, and drive you through it. There's no RPG in FF, for example, just a linear story they set up that you play through. There's a TON more RPG in WoW. PvP servers drive this substantially. A lvl 30 Tauren killing low level night elves in Darkshore getting taken down by a player working patrol for newbies is a great example. You can always choose to get so into power leveling and the numbers that you lose sight of immersion because everything is seen as "what can I min/max?" but if you let yourself relax and enjoy it it's quite a ride. The first time I wandered across from Elwynn to Darkshire I got seriously creeped out - now that's immersion.

[Treesh]

See, now, I find WoW completely immersive.  I completely relate to my characters and on a fairly regular basis when I walk into a new area I find myself just stopping to look at stuff.  And the little touches are brilliant.  I love the fact that the default camera position matches your height so if you move the camera right behind your dwarf/gnome you end up looking up at everything and the world seems taller.  And most computer RPGs aren't role playing at all, they line you up with the story they want to tell, and drive you through it.  There's no RPG in FF, for example, just a linear story they set up that you play through.  There's a TON more RPG in WoW.  PvP servers drive this substantially.  A lvl 30 Tauren killing low level night elves in Darkshore getting taken down by a player working patrol for newbies is a great example.  You can always choose to get so into power leveling and the numbers that you lose sight of immersion because everything is seen as "what can I min/max?" but if you let yourself relax and enjoy it it's quite a ride.  The first time I wandered across from Elwynn to Darkshire I got seriously creeped out - now that's immersion.
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I am definitely not a min/max gamer and there are some decent flashes of immersion (the spiders in the undead areas and in Duskwood give me the willies every time I see them so of course I feel compelled to kill all of them I see), and there are some areas with wonderful ambience (love Mulgore, Tirisfal Glades, and Dun Morogh/Loch Modan), but overall (ignoring the PvP aspect) WoW is still extremely linear. You have no input into the world; you just follow what the devs have set out as the story. Yay! I defeated the groups of centaurs thretening the barrens and killed the Warlord. Oh, wait, they're back 5 seconds later because someone else is doing the exact same quest now. I do admit I thought that was a really neat quest, but it somewhat loses that neatness knowing that all the horde can do it and ultimately, nothing actually changes in the world because of it. So how immersive is that? I bust my hump to help protect my land and my peoples, but even if I didn't bust my hump, everyone would be safe anyway. Even in PvP, we can't take over towns that belong to enemy factions, we can't burn the ships to keep them from sailing to us, we can't build bridges, build ramparts, rebuild cities that have been razed. That, to me, is so immersion breaking in a world that is supposedly still at war. My characters (who belong to the same factions anyway) will all follow the same quests, will all end up at the same place with some equipment differences and talent point differences, but really, they'll follow such similar paths in game that I may as well not even bother. I do still roleplay when I feel like it simply because I enjoy that, but the world is still so linear while yet somewhat open-ended (you aren't forced to do the quests and are allowed to be explorers) that I can't call it a true RPG. For what it's worth, I don't consider Morrowind a true RPG for the same reasons.

[Professor Frink]

I am definitely not a min/max gamer and there are some decent flashes of immersion (the spiders in the undead areas and in Duskwood give me the willies every time I see them so of course I feel compelled to kill all of them I see), and there are some areas with wonderful ambience (love Mulgore, Tirisfal Glades, and Dun Morogh/Loch Modan), but overall (ignoring the PvP aspect) WoW is still extremely linear.  You have no input into the world; you just follow what the devs have set out as the story.  Yay!  I defeated the groups of centaurs thretening the barrens and killed the Warlord.  Oh, wait, they're back 5 seconds later because someone else is doing the exact same quest now.
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The way respawning works bothers me, and if I stop playing the game soon that will probably be why. The last MMORPG I played was a CircleMUD, and at the risk of being crotchety-old-man-guy, respawning worked much better back then: well designed zones either did "zone resets" where the entire area went back to its starting state when the main quest was completed or nobody was in it (low-population areas did this) or there were "patrols" where mobs spawned somewhere empty and then ran a circuit where they lived (high-population areas did that, you wouldn't want to zone-reset the starter town). Many mobs in WoW seem decidedly non-mobile and fading into existence next to where you're sitting because you took too long to slog through the strangely seeded field of barely moving mobs seems cheap and anti-fun.

I'd like it if there were some way for players to change the world, but I can live with the idea that that's technically impractical and one of the fundamental differences between an RPG and a MUD/MMORPG. When games made 10 years ago that inspired the entire genre did things in an obviously better way that would still work just fine, it irks me.

-- frink

[nobbie]

Well, I personally like WOW because it comes my vision of the "perfect" multiplayer RPG closer than any game I've played before. WOW is basically the next evolutionary step of Diablo II (even though that was a fast-paced, addictive action RPG and actually a different beast). If you've enjoyed Diablo II, you'll absolutely love WOW with its cheerful, bright-color fantasy 3D graphics in FPS-quality and the excellent voice acting, sound effects and beautifully composed symphonic music. It addresses many of the popular issues RPG and MMORPG players have previously highlighted, in every regard. What I also like is the constant presence of an online team that watches what is done and what is said on the servers. I have not yet seen any insults or any other annoying BS you know from the (free) Diablo II Battle.net realms. Once in a while there's someone that steals your kill, but that's it basically.
"Multiplayer" is definitely more important in WOW than it was in Diablo II. While you can do "grinding" and quite a bunch of the quests (slowly) solo, many (non-elite) quests and the occasional elite monster simply cannot be done without a party. Monsters are so much tougher in WOW that careful traveling, clever spell/minion micro-management and good team-play are a must. That is where the challenge lies in WOW, in PvE. The highlight of WOW are certainly the high-level elite monster raids with parties of 40 people, and more. WOW (being mainly a multiplayer game) also requires time because many quests are much more elaborate than, for example, in Diablo II. If you don't have at least 5 hours per week to play it, then this game is hardly worth the fee.
I cannot speak from the perspective of a RTS gamer (WarCraft, StarCraft) because I haven't played games from that genre as intensively as RPG's. I can imagine however, that many RTS (or FPS) gamers who are focused on PvP battling, competition and ladder ranking will not like WOW as much as RPG gamers. RPG's require that you simply like taking on a ROLE and enjoy it. There isn't much beyond that. The rest is about solving quests, killing monsters, leveling, better items, party-play etc. If you find this entertaining, it will make you feel good in your real life - and that's a point that all games share :)

[Treesh]

I'd like it if there were some way for players to change the world, but I can live with the idea that that's technically impractical and one of the fundamental differences between an RPG and a MUD/MMORPG. 
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There are actually some out there that have managed to allow players to change the world in the way I was talking about. Horizons allowed you to build bridges, rebuild villages that were destroyed. The game actually did a couple of things right. Too bad it was littered with bugs and they cut so many other features out of it. Ah well. After Horizons, I no longer accept the "technically impractical" excuse of actually affecting the world (as in building and razing things, and not affecting storylines. Although there was some of that as well in Horizons).

[Cryptic]

I don't think we'll ever see widespread player-affecting-the-environment effects in a MMORPG, since that goes against the massively multi-player elements. If a village is burned down, sure it was neat for the 5 people who burned it down, but what about the 2,000 other people who needed that area for quest givers, and the quest givers are all dead? If rebuilding the village is fun for 105 people, how fun is it for the 1,900 people who never got to use the village before it was destroyed? If killing a centaur leader makes the Barrens safe, that's fun for the 5 people who saved the Barrens, but the other 2,000 people are deprived of the event forever. Etc. Environment-wide effects are much better suited to personal games (solo, or no bigger than D2-level) than to massive ones.

The exceptions are player-implemented epic triggers. If 5 warlocks open a gate and then the rest of the server has to deal with a demonic invasion because of it, those warlocks will become notorious and legendary on their server. They'll have lots of friends and enemies due to their actions, and won't be forgotten. But the impacting events have to be big, otherwise they don't matter; and they have to be prepared for. Otherwise, you'd need a team of 100 programmers frantically trying to keep up with a dozen players, while ignoring the needs of the other thousands. "Hey, Frank and Sally killed so-and-so last night, we have to write some new script changes for everyone by tomorrow and re-design the lair!" Not practical. Cool, but never practical. :)

The advantage of a massive game isn't the player impact on the world, it's the social aspect in a huge setting. There's thousands of people to get to know and to fight against, and an entire world to explore. I think that will always be the primary appeal.

[Treesh]

I really don't think I'm explaining this correctly. I'm going to use how it worked in Horizons as an example and try to show why I don't think the "technically impractical" excuse doesn't work.

With the crafting schools in Horizons, you had to choose between if you could make leather structures, stone structures, or wooden structures. Most buildings required a combination of materials. The smaller the building, the fewer materials and the fewer types of materials were needed. So yes, a small group of people could build a couple of things for personal use. The big villages and main bridges/towers required many, many people working extremely diligently over time in order to repair those structures that did have a noticeable effect on the world, as in getting to the Satyrs - a race that was in the game, but not playable until the server freed the race. In order to free the race, you had to have both adventurers and crafters working together on it and it really did take just about the entire server to do it. The servers that didn't have people group together took the longest to release the subjugated races.

Unfortunately, there was no PvP in the tested and released version, but the NPCs did stage raids on the towns and if the majority of people didn't help defend, you effectively lost that town. Your personal property was still there, but you couldn't get to it by yourself.

My point is that the things that really, truly did affect the world were not limited to a small group of people. In fact, you had to have massive groups in order to defend towns or to push into the Withered Aegis territories and claim some new lands.

Questing wasn't setup like it is in WoW. You do small quests for your crafting and small little excursions against minor threats for your adventuring. The big world and story changing effects were always geared towards everyone, including the baby characters, doing some part to help. For the crafting parts, you didn't even have to be on at the same time as everyone else, just build when you could. The adventurers usually had to coordinate when they were attacking, but that's to be expected. If you tried to do the world changing events with only 5 people, it never happened. You couldn't even do it with just a hundred or so. You needed a massive, server-wide effort to do it. And that was good. Something that is that world changing needs to take effort, coordination, and teamwork in order to succeed. It means nothing if just a handful of people can do it.

Horizons had a lot of downfalls, but the way they implemented world and storyline changes was one of the few things they did correctly. It allowed players to affect the world, but it didn't do it by making the character the center of the world and that is why it wasn't completely impractical and completely not workable.

Edit: One more comment I wanted to make. So many MMORPGs claim to have living, breathing worlds, immersive worlds, but if nothing ever really changes in the world, is it really that much of a world? The game can still be good, but the world in a lot of these RPGs are just static with only hints and nods here and there to being believable as a world.

[Cryptic]

I think interactive servers to that degree would be interesting, but they couldn't really be implemented in WoW until the Alliance-Horde population disparity is addressed. Currently, from census samplings and player reports, the Horde is outnumbered 2:1 or 3:1 on most servers. "Triggers" would either have to be based on population numbers, which would give the Alliance an advantage (getting 2,000 people together would be easier), or percentage-wise, which would give the Horde an advantage (getting 80% of the people together is easier when 80% = 500 instead of 1,500).

Given the choice though, I'd rather look forward to more quest content than environment-altering content.

[Treesh]

I think interactive servers to that degree would be interesting, but they couldn't really be implemented in WoW until the Alliance-Horde population disparity is addressed.  Currently, from census samplings and player reports, the Horde is outnumbered 2:1 or 3:1 on most servers.  "Triggers" would either have to be based on population numbers, which would give the Alliance an advantage (getting 2,000 people together would be easier), or percentage-wise, which would give the Horde an advantage (getting 80% of the people together is easier when 80% = 500 instead of 1,500).

Given the choice though, I'd rather look forward to more quest content than environment-altering content.
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I never tried to claim this would work in WoW and I agree that it wouldn't work in WoW because it wasn't implemented from the beginning. This is a feature that WoW doesn't have and so that's a bit of a strike against it, but I'm saying that in some MMORPG, it is feasible. That MMORPG isn't going to be WoW ever (it would be so much more hassle than it's worth to even attempt to put it in), but it is a viable feature for an MMORPG and that was what I was trying to say all along.