Going against your talents at high level

[Bob the Beholder]

So, alternate character number 2383934793470880-niner. Troll Priest by the name of Zonk. Yet, I am at a bit of a snag in my plannings. Being that I have yet to actually get to what you could call a high level character, I'm not sure just how much speccing in one talent tree would cripple you when you find you have to use skills based in another tree.

Basically, I keep hearing all this stuff people say about the high-end, leve-capped quests/areas, like, "Only a protection specced warrior could tank this!" Or, "Only a holy specced healer could keep a tank alive through this!" Or whatever other vague and generic ramblings you might wish to make up on the spot.

But, could, for an example pertinent to my current character, a shadow-specced priest effectively heal a high-level party through a dangerous area? Could a holy-specced priest effectively, I dunno, kill a whole mob?

Basically, if I master in a certain talent tree, practice with that play style, and get used to its abilities, could I still adapt to a situation that would be more friendly to another build and still come out on top, without the thought of gypping myself in solo, or my party in a group out of a more effective experience?

And, yes, I know you can re-do your talent points, but I imagine it would get a bit expensive and time-consuming to re-spec yourself every day.

All you crazy 'people with higher level character' might be able to answer this better than I can.

[bonemage]

So, alternate character number 2383934793470880-niner.  Troll Priest by the name of Zonk.  Yet, I am at a bit of a snag in my plannings.  Being that I have yet to actually get to what you could call a high level character, I'm not sure just how much speccing in one talent tree would cripple you when you find you have to use skills based in another tree. 

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[Edit]: A simple answer seems to have become bloated. If you're in a hurry, skip to the bottom.


The talents are endlessly/heatedly debated on various forums. On the topic of priest talents you've mentioned (I'm researching my next character, a priest) are those that would rather delete their character than give up shadow talents flaming and being flamed by those that would rather delete their characters rather than be non-holy specced. Play style should match your talents rather than any less than/greater than arguments will be all I will say on this. The great thing about talents (at least right now, rumored to go away, which would be awful) is that they can be fixed. In later game, the cost should be less of an issue so don't be overly concerned about getting talents right your first time. It would be expensive to respec every day (I just noticed your last paragraph after my first response), but you usually have to use your skills/talents for some time to really learn if what you've done with your talents is right or not. I have known for over 10 levels that I would have been better off with some talents over others, but I'm still quite effective with what I do have and will respec later after I learn more, as to prevent fixing my past mistake, and a future mistake. I suggest reading some posts on this (perhaps official forums) and seeing what others have done, and see what matches your play style and spec that way. I have not heard of anyone who hasn't been opposed if they claim one tree will wreck you and make you ineffective, which is evidence that it won't. As I've seen at least 2 trees per class argued vehemently, I don't think you can ruin yourself with any class on the choices you make on your talents, so a respec won't be needed to make you work, though it could (IMO should) be used to improve yourself. I think that 2 respecs would be pretty good and not costly. One mid level, one late, as you really learn what you use and what works for you and what doesn't.

P.S. After several re-edits for clarity, I may have rambled myself into oblivion. Perhaps a sum up would help:

1) You can't ruin yourself if you go with the wrong tree
2) It takes time to really know what's best, respeccing is very common, and with patience you can learn what's best for you without getting too expensive.

[Caeles]

It all depends on what your doing, and what your function will be in group play and end game.

I'll use the priest for example since i have a whole lot of experience in that field.

From 1-60 you do alot of soloing. That being the case, shadow spec is probably the way you want to go to be able to get through those mobs quickly and time efficiently.

I on the other hand resigned myself to the fact that as a priest, i am a healer, in groups i am a healer, and if someone wants someone who can nuke something to death they invite a mage, warlock, or rogue. I had no issues killing mobs, it just took about 15-20 seconds per mob (HW:S melee, repeat until mob is dead or you are). Also, using that above mentioned strategy i had almost 0 downtime, it took a while, but i was never sitting around drinking, and was always ready for those PvP battles.

Shadow talents are great, as are discipline... the holy talents have gotten better, but in my opinion are still somewhat lacking.

So that being said, if you plan on soloing alot, go shadow, or even go shadow up to 60 and then respec holy since you'll probably just be grouping/instancing/raiding from there on in (i think the first respec is only 1g).

Also, it depends on PvP, again small group PvP is where the shadow priest shines, but in larger groups, again priests are expected to heal, and people will be mad if you used all your mana to mindflay that enemy warlock to death and can't heal the other 4 members of your group.

Also, go to wowvault.ign.com and use the talent calculator there to play around a bit.

I think that any priest will go with at least 21 in discipline though because inner focus seems to be one of those must haves.

I personally go 21 discipline for inner focus, and a couple nice talents along the way, and then 30 in holy because i want to be the best healer i can be, that's why i chose to play a priest, and it basically comes with the territory.

This argument can work alot of ways for almost every class, so it's basically yours to choose, after all at level 60 1g really isn't all that much. And you always have the talent calculators to take a look before you dive in.

[crowley]

There is no simlple end all answer to this, you have to provide details. Exactly what are you talking about?

And i'll disagree with the above, you can radically change your character via talents. I changed talents in release no less than 4 times, and countless more times in beta (when it was free). The difference may be astouding the difference may be negligible...it all depends on what talents you're talking about and what activity.

For the Priest the Shadow Line gives inordinate bonuses to damage. If you look at the bonuses to damage for mages/warlocks, you'll see that +10% is godly. Yet the Priest shadow line will net you +40% (+15% +15% +10%) aka 4x godly...in addition to giving a priest an incredible DPM "nuke" in Mind Flay.

Using just Mind Flay, and assuming best case scenario with shadow talents your DPM is 2.9 dpm.
Without shadow spec, using Holy and Imp Smite (+10%) damage your DPM is 1.4 dpm.

A serious change in solo PvE Speed? Yes it is, especially consdering Shadow line also increases SW:P damage as well as giving you Spirit Tap.

But this is probably the most extreme case of talent power...many people including myself consider the Priest shadow line to be the best talent spec in the game. Most other talent lines are not nearly as extreme.

[Bob the Beholder]

Well, while we're talking... or not really doing much talking at all, I guess, about talents, I would like to ask a question.

I likes mah hunter. He is level 28. He's a big cow. It's all good.

But in my current Marksmanship build I am having a single problem.

What adds more to the average DPS? Improved Hunter's Mark, or Improved Arcane Shot?

Hunter's Mark, of course, adds straight damage per shot, of course, but it does that even eithout the talent.

Arcane Shot is my ticket to the high DPS, I've found. Once I got Aimed Shot, I tried to use that, but it just didn't seem worth it. It'd be nice to take out a running enemy with more then a sliver of life, but otherwise it seems about double the damage of a normal shot, with two to three times the attack rate, thus, actually reducing the overall DPS. Arcane shot, however, instantly adds a certain amount of damage without interrupting any other attacks, which is, by definition, a damage increase.

So, is a 15 percent increase to a (at my level) 45 point attack power bonus beat out the ability to add in 59 damage every five seconds, instead of every six seconds?


... looking at the numbers, I'm thinking Improved Arcane Shot. It's just too bad that, going by my friend's advice, I've already got three points in Improved Hunter's Mark.

[Malakar]

I'd probably agree that Improved Arcane Shot adds more DPS, though I haven't crunched the numbers.

But you might want to consider that as you get higher level, mana regeneration gets MUCH slower. Arcane Shot consumes loads more mana than Hunter's Mark, and this talent will exacerbate that. So, for PvE, Improved Hunter's Mark is definitely a viable option. But perhaps Improved Arcane Shot is better for PvP.