Tanking as a Druid

[DarkCrown]

TANKING AS A BEAR : SOME BASIC ADVICE

This guide is intended to give the druid player the basic tools needed to be an effective tank. I have found that even with no points at all in the feral tree it is possible to tank quite well in bear form, even in the higher level instances.

We're considering play in 5-player groups, where the druid is the only available tank. In order for this to work there must also be a healer and some damage dealers backing the tank up.

USING SPELLS TO GENERATE AGGRO

When you play as a tank your job is not to deal damage. You will of course deal some, but the tank's main job is to get and keep aggro from every mob in every encounter. The druid does not have quite the versatility of the warrior when it comes to managing aggro, but with a little ingenuity he can still be quite capable. We'll start by looking at spells which can be useful for generating aggro.

MOONFIRE: Moonfire is an instant which does some initial damage and then generates some DOT. The spell is only available in caster form, so you might wonder why it's on this list. I suggest that you start each encounter in caster form and use this spell to pull. It gives you a ranged way to pull and starts the process of getting the mob's aggro.

FAERIE FIRE: Another caster spell, this one lowers the mob's armor. Use this one directly after the Moonfire. If the pull is a bit tricky use this before the Moonfire; it generates less aggro and can often turn a 2 or 3-pull into a 1-pull.

REJUVENATION: This is a healing spell which heals over time. Cast this on yourself as soon as the mob is pulled. Again this will generate aggro and the healing will make you harder to damage at the beginning of the fight.

REGROWTH: Another healing spell, this one heals for a fixed amount and then has a heal over time component. Cast this along with the Rejuvenation, for even more aggro and a little less damage taken early in the fight.

After you've pulled as described above and buffed yourself, drop into bear form. Make sure that your party understands not to start unloading on the mob until you are in bear form and have a bit of rage generated. Once you are in bear form there is a small selection of spells available.

DEMORALIZING ROAR: This decreases attack power of the mobs,and again generates aggro. This also has a small area effect, and so should be the first thing you use in bear form, as it will help cement nearby mobs to you if more than one was pulled.

ENRAGE: This spell is an instant which generates rage and lowers your armor rating. I don't believe it generates aggro by itself, but if you find it's taking too long to get off the Demoralizing Roar, you should consider casting this as soon as you go into bear form.

GROWL: This spell's only purpose is to generate aggro. Use this just after the Demoralizing Roar, and toss one in every now and then during the fight to make sure you don't lose the mob's attention.

If you use the combination of spells outlined above on a single pull, and if the rest of the party holds off until you are in bear form, it will be almost impossible for anyone but a warrior to pull the mob back off of you.

On larger pulls, or if there are adds, the druid still has a few tricks up his sleeve.

SWIPE: This spell does some damage to 3 nearby enemies, and keeps you near the top of their hit list. If the pull is 2 or 3 you will want to use this directly after the Demoralizing Roar.

CHALLENGING ROAR: This spell forces all nearby enemies to attack you, but has a 10 minute cooldown. You want to save this one for when it's really needed. As an example consider the elemental patrols in Maraudon. If you use the steps outlined above to pull one of the larger elementals, you will generally find that the other large elemental (if there is one) will also latch onto you. But the smaller ones will often peel off and head for the casters. This is a good time to give chase and use Challenging Roar on the group of smaller elementals.

This leads to another basic of tanking: protect the other players at all costs. This means that if there is an add, or if you lost the aggro of one of the mobs you are tanking, then you need to drop what you're doing and pull that mob away from the rest of the party. There are exceptions here: if there is a mage or another druid in the party they might be able to handle the problem with Polymorph or Hibernate. A hunter can usually handle a single mob quite easily. But if the mob is on one of the casters and is not being otherwise handled it is your job to get it off. With practice you will get better at judging which is the best course in a given situation.

Here are some other spells worth mentioning:

BASH: This spell stuns the target briefly. This is handy in two common situations. If the healer is having trouble keeping up, and needs a few seconds to get a heal to you, use Bash to give that player a little breathing room. This is also sometimes useful if the mob is a caster, as you can often Bash them before they get off their spell.


MAUL: This spell adds extra damage to the bear's next attack, and is the mainstay of soloing as a bear. You want to use this only when the mob is firmly attached to you and you have nothing better to do with your rage. Keep in mind that any damage you do as a bear is incidental. Your job is keeping aggro.

MARK OF THE WILD: Every druid should have 5 points in Improved Mark of the Wild, and it should be cast on you and every party member at all times. This applies whether you are tanking or not.

THORNS: This buff returns a bit of damage to anything that hits you. The damage return is not great, but this is good for generating aggro against multiple mobs. You should keep this on you at all times.


Conclusion: Tanking as a druid is a lot of fun, and I have been fairly succesful at it. Often the hardest part of the job is convincing the rest of the party that you are able to do it! Keep in mind that as a tank you need to have a very good sense of what is going on with the fight. You need to have an awareness of where the other players are at all times, and keep track of what mobs are currently engaged. A good party will let you know when there are adds, but keeping an eye on the party health bars is a good way to know if something is going wrong behind you. Also keep in mind that the only stat you never need to worry about is your own health. It's the healer's job to focus on it, not yours. Dying now and again is part of the tanking job, but in a well played group you might be surprised how rarely that will happen.


-DarkCrown

[ArtegaAwayFromHome]

The downside is that there aren't many Druids around, but I absolutely love having them party with me. They're excellent at playing backup healer (or even main healer if you can snag a Shaman for resurrection purposes), and do pretty well as backup tank while in Bear form. And, of course, Mark of the Wild (or Gift of the Wild) just plain owns.

Playing a Bear is pretty similar to playing a Warrior, though you have a bit more survivability through your CC spells (roots and Hibernate) and healing spells. Eventually, I'll get around to playing a Druid, but I'm having plenty of fun with my Warrior and Shaman for the time being :)

[Zarathustra]

The downside is that there aren't many Druids around[right][snapback]67323[/snapback][/right]

NO, that's a good thing! Makes people appreciate the few Druids there ARE who actually know how to play the class.

I love it when people say to me, "I didn't think Druids were that good..."

[Treesh]

NO, that's a good thing!  Makes people appreciate the few Druids there ARE who actually know how to play the class.

I love it when people say to me, "I didn't think Druids were that good..."
[right][snapback]67362[/snapback][/right]

Druids played well are a great thing to have in the group. Hippie (Hippy? I can't quite remember how he spelled it) on Stormrage was a fun druid to have in the group. He beared when needed to, went cat when needed, and threw out the spells/heals when needed. It's fantastic when a well-rounded class is played well.

[Caline]

In my experience as a tanking bear, I've found switching in and out of bear form every fight counterproductive and time-consuming. It certainly does the job, but I've had better experiences when I focus on tanking instead of trying to play the dual role of caster/tank. Hopefully these annotations will explain what I feel are disadvantages of this playstyle, and suggest an alternative. Discretion is, of course, left to the reader.

TANKING AS A BEAR : SOME BASIC ADVICE

This guide is intended to give the druid player the basic tools needed to be an  effective tank. I have found that even with no points at all in the feral tree it  is possible to tank quite well in bear form, even in the higher level instances.

We're considering play in 5-player groups, where the druid is the only available  tank. In order for this to work there must also be a healer and some damage  dealers backing the tank up.

USING SPELLS TO GENERATE AGGRO

When you play as a tank your job is not to deal damage. You will of course deal  some, but the tank's main job is to get and keep aggro from every mob in every  encounter. The druid does not have quite the versatility of the warrior when it  comes to managing aggro, but with a little ingenuity he can still be quite  capable. We'll start by looking at spells which can be useful for generating  aggro.

MOONFIRE:  Moonfire is an instant which does some initial damage and then  generates some DOT. The spell is only available in caster form, so you might  wonder why it's on this list. I suggest that you start each encounter in caster  form and use this spell to pull. It gives you a ranged way to pull and starts the  process of getting the mob's aggro.

FAERIE FIRE:  Another caster spell, this one lowers the mob's armor. Use this one  directly after the Moonfire. If the pull is a bit tricky use this before the  Moonfire; it generates less aggro and can often turn a 2 or 3-pull into a 1-pull.

This here is the main advantage of using caster form when tanking: the ability to pull from range. Moonfire's damage is trivial as DPS (as Darkcrown says, DPS is not your role), too low to solidify threat on an add, and completely overshadowed by your melee damage (and inherent bear +threat) if used on the main assist.

Effortless pulls from range are certainly a boon, but they're far from necessary. When fighting a group of melee creeps, body pulling works as well. If fighting casters or other ranged attackers, a ranged puller encounters the same problems as a body puller, though it's usually easier for a ranged puller to break LoS. If it's safe to fight in a creep camp (for lack of a better term), Feral Charge is always fun, and handy against casters.

Alternately, of course, a hunter or rogue can pull. I'm sure you've read all about the pros and cons of such a move in other threads and other forums, so I won't repeat them here. Suffice to say that as tank, your role is the same. A fast demoralize can strip aggro before anyone takes a hit. It's certainly trickier, but I already said convenience was the big draw of pullilng with spells, right?

(Personally, I get by with body aggro 90% of the time, and use caster form to LoS tricky pulls of ranged attackers. It's always harder to establish and keep aggro with the latter.)

Also: faerie fire acting as a soothe? Wha? Could you explain this please? I've never noticed this behavior.

REJUVENATION:  This is a healing spell which heals over time. Cast this on  yourself as soon as the mob is pulled. Again this will generate aggro and the  healing will make you harder to damage at the beginning of the fight.

REGROWTH:  Another healing spell, this one heals for a fixed amount and then has a  heal over time component. Cast this along with the Rejuvenation, for even more  aggro and a little less damage taken early in the fight.

After you've pulled as described above and buffed yourself, drop into bear form.  Make sure that your party understands not to start unloading on the mob until you  are in bear form and have a bit of rage generated.

First off: healing doesn't build threat before the pull enters melee. I'm not sure if it builds threat or not if you're at full HP (which you'd better be, if you're pulling) after the pull, but I've tested the former (as a result, the latter seems counterintuitive anyway...). Get a full regrowth/rejuv going, pull with FF, tick, tick, rogue throws dagger and it's on him.

Does the HoT help negate damage? Certainly. Unfortunately, rejuvenation is about half-gone by the time you start taking damage, and regrowth's HoT is pretty minor compared to the damage you should be taking from a pack of at-level elites. In a vacuum, this is still pretty sweet. Unfortunately, since you start off with no rage, and have to tell your group to back off until you can demoralize and establish aggro, I consider it a net loss. It's still a good tactic to keep in mind for special situations (like when you need to get the high-DPS creep down ASAP), but as general procedure...

Besides, like Darkcrown says:

Also keep in mind that the only stat you never need to worry about is your  own health. It's the healer's job to focus on it, not yours.

I agree completely.

ENRAGE: This spell is an instant which generates rage and lowers your armor  rating. I don't believe it generates aggro by itself, but if you find it's taking  too long to get off the Demoralizing Roar, you should consider casting this as  soon as you go into bear form.

Enrage is free rage. Wouldn't you like to go into combat with 20 free rage? Great. The grace period before it starts to decay is very small, so try to pull with 3-5 seconds left on the clock. With a 1 min recast timer, this sounds daunting, but if your group works well together, it's easy to establish a rhythm after a few pulls.

The armor penalty is huge. That's 75 percent, reducing your armor to a little less than caster form. I certainly don't like tanking in caster form, and I bet you don't either. Taking more than 2 or 3 hits with enrage active can easily cause a horrible ping-ponging mess due to healing aggro. Ideally, you should be taking none. Corrolary: Don't use enrage while in combat.

I think Darkcrown is suggesting pulling with moonfire/ff, casting HoTs, shifting to bear, and using enrage to quickly build initial rage for a roar and so on. If so, I propose the following experiment. HoT up, and pull a pack of elites in caster form. See how well the HoTs negate the armor penalty (as mentioned above, caster form is roughly equal to 25% bearform armor). It's... not pretty, is it?

This leads to another basic of tanking: protect the other players at all costs.

If you take extra damage during a pull, or inhibit your ability to generate rage or threat, you're making your job harder.

SWIPE: This spell does some damage to 3 nearby enemies, and keeps you near the  top of their hit list. If the pull is 2 or 3 you will want to use this directly  after the Demoralizing Roar.

Any warrior will tell you how important switching targets is to holding multiple aggro. Unfortunately, as a bear, we're hampered with a 3.0 delay attack speed, which I feel is the largest weakness of the playstyle. In the time it takes for us to tab through 4 targets, 12 seconds have gone by. That's 12 seconds of the damage classes piling on the main assist, and 12 seconds of your healing casting away. It's simply not feasible. Swipe is high rage cost for low damage, but it's a quick way to build a little threat on multiple targets at once, while keeping your focus on the main assist. And a little threat is a lot more useful than none.

Swipe is kind of finicky about deciding what is and isn't in swiping range. If creeps are too close to you (inside the model), it won't hit them. If they're too far in the periphery of your character, it won't hit them. And, of course, if they're behind you or to your side, it won't hit them. Try to herd the creep pack into a 90 degree wedge directly in front of you. Easier said than done, I know.

BASH:     This spell stuns the target briefly. This is handy in two common  situations. If the healer is having trouble keeping up, and needs a few seconds  to get a heal to you, use Bash to give that player a little breathing room. This  is also sometimes useful if the mob is a caster, as you can often Bash them  before they get off their spell.

Also useful to catch a runner or if someone peels you while taunt is down. ...it's a stun, what's to say?

A few common warrior pointers that druids might not have picked up on:

*Maul replaces a normal attack. It takes time to go off, and effectively costs an extra attack worth of rage.

*Growl generates no lasting threat. It puts you right at the top of the threat list, and forces the monster to focus attacks on you for two seconds. After that, anything will distract the monster away from you.

*Again with the 3.0 attack speed gripe. This means that a taunted creep can and will be peeled in between autoattacks. Ideally, hit growl just before an autoattack. However, since we don't live in an ideal world, Swipe is instant damage that can solidify your threat... at least until the Growl timer comes up again.

Finally...

*Though the feral talent tree is an unpopular choice, Ferocity is a first-tier talent that has an amazing effect on bear form. If you plan on spending any time as a bear, pick Ferocity up. Being able use Maul and Swipe that much faster doesn't sound like an amazing effect, but in practice, it's like 25% faster rage generation. And that is a beautiful thing.

[UberJason]

One thing I have noticed about Enrage.... It seems to only reduce 75% from your BASE armor, not from the bonus you get in Bear form. At level 40 (Dire Bear), the actual armor loss is actually rather trivial. I enrage whenever I can.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or what, but try it, keep your character screen on and hit enrage, you will still have most of your damage reducttion.

[Warlock]

One thing I have noticed about Enrage....  It seems to only reduce 75% from your BASE armor, not from the bonus you get in Bear form.  At level 40 (Dire Bear), the actual armor loss is actually rather trivial.  I enrage whenever I can.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or what, but try it, keep your character screen on and hit enrage, you will still have most of your damage reducttion.
[right][snapback]67707[/snapback][/right]

I can confirm this, Enrage is currently applied to your base armour.

Bear Weapon speed is 2.5 seconds, reasonably fast for a two handed weapon. The DPS of the inherent weapon is identical to two handed greens of the same level, at least for Dire Bear from level 40 to 45 which is how long I've been tracking it. At 45 it is actually a tiny fraction superior, I don't know if this is the start of a slow improvement or a roundng error.

In terms of power I'm quite happy with Bear form - it doesn't make warriors obsolete, but it can get the job done. A couple more skills to use so soloing with it was more interesting wouldn't hurt, though.

[Malakar]

I played a druid after playing a warrior, and I was not disappointed at all with bear form. Cat form, however, disappointed me quite a bit.

[Artega]

I played a druid after playing a warrior, and I was not disappointed at all with bear form. Cat form, however, disappointed me quite a bit.
[right][snapback]67793[/snapback][/right]

I'm working on bringing a young Druid up, but I've noticed that the rate-of-slaughter is significantly lower than that of Shaman and Warriors. Does this continue, or is it just new-avatar quibbles?

[Bun-Bun]

I'm working on bringing a young Druid up, but I've noticed that the rate-of-slaughter is significantly lower than that of Shaman and Warriors.  Does this continue, or is it just new-avatar quibbles?
[right][snapback]67800[/snapback][/right]

It tends to persist. Sometimes it feels as if you're not fighting the mob, you're eroding it. Druids are the masters at outlasting the enemy, though.

It does make soloing healing mobs somewhat tedious at times. :)

[Malakar]

I'm working on bringing a young Druid up, but I've noticed that the rate-of-slaughter is significantly lower than that of Shaman and Warriors.  Does this continue, or is it just new-avatar quibbles?
[right][snapback]67800[/snapback][/right]

Are you using human form mostly? Bear form? Were you using good weapons on your Shaman/Warrior?

I didn't notice a significant difference in the speed between my Warrior and Druid, perhaps it's something to do with Druids having little to no downtime which makes up for some of the lack of killing speed. Or perhaps it was because I twinked out my Druid with a good staff early on, then got the Staff of Westfall. Though even with my early staff, Bear form seemed roughly equal.

[Zarathustra]

Are you using human form mostly? Bear form? Were you using good weapons on your Shaman/Warrior?

I didn't notice a significant difference in the speed between my Warrior and Druid, perhaps it's something to do with Druids having little to no downtime which makes up for some of the lack of killing speed. Or perhaps it was because I twinked out my Druid with a good staff early on, then got the Staff of Westfall. Though even with my early staff, Bear form seemed roughly equal.
[right][snapback]67823[/snapback][/right]

Another staff worth mentioning if you're looking for some added defense in Bear form is the Staff of Defense. The weapon merchant in the port authority of Booty Bay has a limited supply of them, but she refreshes often enough that you should be able to snag one. Easiest way to gain an extra 460 armor.

[acidjax]

One thing about thorns...

I played a feral druid to 54 in beta and there was a nasty bug about it that might still apply. It appeared that when a mob hit the druid, the thorns damage kicked in about half a second later. Similarly, when a mage cast polymorph the effect kicked in about a half a second after the spell landed on the mob. This resulted in many unsuccessful polymorph attempts while thorns was active.

If this is still the way it works, thorns probably shouldn't be used in any 5-man instances.

[Artega]

One thing about thorns...

I played a feral druid to 54 in beta and there was a nasty bug about it that might still apply.  It appeared that when a mob hit the druid, the thorns damage kicked in about half a second later.  Similarly, when a mage cast polymorph the effect kicked in about a half a second after the spell landed on the mob.  This resulted in many unsuccessful polymorph attempts while thorns was active.

If this is still the way it works, thorns probably shouldn't be used in any 5-man instances.
[right][snapback]68496[/snapback][/right]

Alternately, you could have the mage(s) pull with sheep.

I hardly ever do any real tanking outside bosses anymore. It's generally just more efficient for the two mages that usually hang out with my group to spam Improved Arcane Explosion along with Frost Nova and Cone of Cold than it is for me to run up and attempt to contain aggro while they do their thing. Between Shield and the occasional Ice Block or Ice Barrier, the mages are never really in true danger, and the group as a whole moves much faster through the instance.

For BRD, we usually have them sheep two while I occupy the Officer and the priest Controls the medic. Everyone else obliterates the remaining mob, helps me finish off the Officer, then we kill the two sheep followed by the Controlled medic. Works pretty well.