Sacrifice

[Little Faith]

OK, I've been having a bit of fun with my Martyr (Sacrifice specialist). He is dealing around 2000 damage per hit even though he has not yet completed normal difficulty (Go upgraded Steeldriver!), but that is not the point i am interested in.

What puzzles me is how exactly the price of Sacrifice is handled by the game. A few instances has convinced me that everything is not like I thought.

Firstly I have suffered a string of inexplicable deaths, though there seems to be some sort of pattern. Basically they happened while I was swinging at an enemy moving slowly away from me. The swing would not connect (because the creature had left my weapon reach), but I would still suffer the damage (that would occasionally one-hit kill me). This will only happen with creatures moving slowly away from me (like those fat taskmaster thingies). With faster creatures I will merely hit air and not pay the price.

Secondly it seems like Sacrifice deals damage to you before your life leech is accounted for you, so if you deal enough damage to kill yourself you die even though you might have leech enough to ameliorate the life loss.

My question is. When does Sacrifice deal damage to you? It seems neither to be directly on initation of the attack, nor on successfully damaging the target.

Thirdly it seems like I suffer less damage when barely missing targets with few hit points (like imps) than when barely missing targets with high hit points (like the aforementioned taskmasters or what they are called). Is Sacrifice's cost decided by the amount of hit points a successful attack would remove instead of the listed damage?

[Baajikiil]

Firstly I have suffered a string of inexplicable deaths, though there seems to be some sort of pattern. Basically they happened while I was swinging at an enemy moving slowly away from me. The swing would not connect (because the creature had left my weapon reach), but I would still suffer the damage (that would occasionally one-hit kill me). This will only happen with creatures moving slowly away from me (like those fat taskmaster thingies). With faster creatures I will merely hit air and not pay the price.

I've seen this with my Martyrs before. I chalk it up to desync of the worst variety. I simply stopped attacking monsters who were not definitely next to me. It's a good habit to get into anyway, because it is the same type of situation were you can get a zeal whiff sequence. Really, any melee attacker can have this problem, sacrifice seems to be especially bad about it. The damage you take will be based upon what damage you would have done to the mob if you had hit; you won't take any from attacking phys immunes in this manner.

You can see this bug in action with assassins as well, when charging attacks vs a fleeing foe, you can score several charge ups without damaging the target at all.

Secondly it seems like Sacrifice deals damage to you before your life leech is accounted for you, so if you deal enough damage to kill yourself you die even though you might have leech enough to ameliorate the life loss.

My question is. When does Sacrifice deal damage to you? It seems neither to be directly on initation of the attack, nor on successfully damaging the target.

I'm not as sure about this. I *believe* that the damage is done at exactly the same time as normal life stealing. It just puts a -8% in place of the normal 0% base. This fits in with my experiences; I've never killed my self with my martyrs against monsters that you can leach from. This was with a martyr doing about 5K top damage 1 handed.

Thirdly it seems like I suffer less damage when barely missing targets with few hit points (like imps) than when barely missing targets with high hit points (like the aforementioned taskmasters or what they are called). Is Sacrifice's cost decided by the amount of hit points a successful attack would remove instead of the listed damage?

Yes, the cost is based on how much damage you can actually do to the target. Missing fallen in normal in the way you describe will only cost 1 life, but missing them in hell can cost tons. This is simply a bug though. Normal sacrifice misses without the desync will not hurt you.

Martyrs have a real problem once they reach hell; many monsters have very high leach reductions, an you had better have a backup skill for mephisto and diablo. They are tons of fun while they last though.

[Little Faith]

I thought Desync was only a Bnet problem (I am a singleplayer), but apparantly it isn't.

Still doesn't account for the situations where Life Leech should be able to save me.

[Baajikiil]

I thought Desync was only a Bnet problem (I am a singleplayer), but apparantly it isn't.

Still doesn't account for the situations where Life Leech should be able to save me.
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Yes, desync is less prevalent in SP perhaps, but it's still there.

Do you mean while attacking the retreating monsters? Or just in general play?
When having the desync problem, I have always taken the 8% off my life, while doing no damage to the retreating monster. I suppose somewhere the client/server order of oporations is messed up in such a way to allow you to lose hp while not doing damage and leaching.

In normal face to face combat though, you should not be killing yourself if you have enough leach. Be careful what you are attacking though, many undead monsters have leach penalties even in normal. Skeletons can't be leached from at all for example. If this is your problem, I've not seen it with my martrys. I can't remember if I played them in 1.10 or 1.09 though; perhaps something has changed. Maybe I'll make a new one to try it out.

[Wyrm]

I'm not as sure about this.  I *believe* that the damage is done at exactly the same time as normal life stealing.[right][snapback]68814[/snapback][/right]

I'm relatively sure it happens before leech. At least, back in the pre-expansion days it did. I've had plenty of suicide kills from it. My guess is that you lose the life at the same time you would normally lose mana for attacks (ie Vengeance).

Martyrs have a real problem once they reach hell; many monsters have very high leach reductions, an you had better have a backup skill for mephisto and diablo.  They are tons of fun while they last though.

Life Tap charges on switch, nothin' greater. They'll even help you get through the "non-leech" areas of the game.

[Baajikiil]

I'm relatively sure it happens before leech.  At least, back in the pre-expansion days it did.  I've had plenty of suicide kills from it.  My guess is that you lose the life at the same time you would normally lose mana for attacks (ie Vengeance).
Life Tap charges on switch, nothin' greater.  They'll even help you get through the "non-leech" areas of the game.
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It's possible that I just never killed myself that way because I always have very high life and/or damage reducion. I play HC, so I'd know if I managed to kill myself. I do however, always have a very high amount of life for my level, and perhaps this just didn't come up for me.

And yes, lifetap definitely allows you to things you could never do without it. It's pure gold on a smiter as well.

[Taem]

OK,  I've been having a bit of fun with my Martyr (Sacrifice specialist). He is dealing around 2000 damage per hit even though he has not yet completed normal difficulty (Go upgraded Steeldriver!), but that is not the point i am interested in.

What puzzles me is how exactly the price of Sacrifice is handled by the game. A few instances has convinced me that everything is not like I thought.

Firstly I have suffered a string of inexplicable deaths, though there seems to be some sort of pattern. Basically they happened while I was swinging at an enemy moving slowly away from me. The swing would not connect (because the creature had left my weapon reach), but I would still suffer the damage (that would occasionally one-hit kill me). This will only happen with creatures moving slowly away from me (like those fat taskmaster thingies). With faster creatures I will merely hit air and not pay the price.

Secondly it seems like Sacrifice deals damage to you before your life leech is accounted for you, so if you deal enough damage to kill yourself you die even though you might have leech enough to ameliorate the life loss.

My question is. When does Sacrifice deal damage to you? It seems neither to be directly on initation of the attack, nor on successfully damaging the target.

Thirdly it seems like I suffer less damage when barely missing targets with few hit points (like imps) than when barely missing targets with high hit points (like the aforementioned taskmasters or what they are called). Is Sacrifice's cost decided by the amount of hit points a successful attack would remove instead of the listed damage?
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There is a post about this exact subject awhile back, but it's worth looking-up. Either Crystillion or Adyken discusses with me the mechanics of Sacrafice, and I remember writing my skill placenement and items, and theoretical future items and skills to survive in hell.

[Soupoftheday]

Sorry for the bump, I do not think it should cause too much chaos, anyways..

I have never had this problem before with a martyr or as I like to call them (Sacraficial Dins) perhaps it is because I have never found enough of a reason to level a character using sacrafice high enough to take on the big bad four in different difficulties.

My question is; Is a Martyr worth leveling up a lot? Because as far as I see it, they don't have any group controlling attacks (Like zeal or hammers) so they would not be of much use in any CS or for that matter anywhere besides dueling 1 on 1..

Is it worth the level investment for them?