Looting Rant

[MongoJerry]

And how does this help prevent screwing over the younger characters in that area?  Oh, wait it doesn't.

They've added *so* many copper nodes in the world, in particular in the starting areas (except Teldrassil, which is in a tree), that no one should be complaining about not getting enough copper. I think the issue is with the much-less-rare-in-retail-but-still-a-pain nodes like tin and silver.

[acidjax]

And how does this help prevent screwing over the younger characters in that area?  Oh, wait it doesn't.
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One thing I've noticed is that the respawn rates in starter zones for copper mines seems to be MUCH higher then nodes of higher skill metals. Nodes such as rich thorium veins may take around 15-20 minutes to respawn. Copper nodes in starter zones seem to respawn similar to monsters in those zones with there even being a chance at instant respawns after using up a mine.

At the very least, that gives the younger characters a better chance to get their copper simply because the nodes are respawning so fast.

[Artega]

And how does this help prevent screwing over the younger characters in that area?  Oh, wait it doesn't.
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... So?

I make weapons and armor for my guildies' lowbies, and many of them require copper. If there's a few less copper nodes in Durotar, it's no skin off of my nose.

For tin, I prefer the Azureload Mine in Hillsbrad and Thousand Needles outside of the salt flats.

[Mavfin]

... So?

I make weapons and armor for my guildies' lowbies, and many of them require copper.  If there's a few less copper nodes in Durotar, it's no skin off of my nose.

For tin, I prefer the Azureload Mine in Hillsbrad and Thousand Needles outside of the salt flats.
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Once again, Artega, you miss the whole point. If the 20+'s mine Durotar, the troll and orc new people who aren't in a guild, and are more casual players get screwed every time. Now, that may not bother you, who has a guild to supply his copper if he needs it, but it's a royal PITA for a lvl 8 player who wants to get some copper, only to find a 20+ lvl player mining every vein he can find on his minimap, or worse, walking by him to mine it as he fights monsters to clear it. Same with herbs.

From your tone, you're one of the people doing this exact thing. You could care less if the new people get any copper at all, obviously. I'm glad you're not on the servers I am. And the sad thing is, you don't even understand that it's a problem.

Have a nice day.

[SoulEdge]

It's been done to me, so I do it to them. Even better if they're Alliance, because then I kill them and camp them until they get the hell away from MY mineral nodes.

:unsure: I do not like it when it happened to me, why would I want to do that to the others? Just because the others are behaving badly doesn't mean we have to sink to thier level.

Also the corpse camping reminded me of similar incidence I encountered, some Horde players decided to invade Loch Modan, some Alliance players protected the area and killed them. The Horde resurrected and were killed again, it repeated for a few times, at first I thought the Horde players were not giving up, so I was glad there were players who enjoy PvP and were dealing with the invasion. Until it became apparent in the general chat that those Horde players were actually trying to run away but the Alliance players were camping their corpses. It disturbed me that those Alliance players were boasting about the whole camping thing.

So I said:

"Isn't corpse camping a form of grieving?"

"What's grieving?"

Some other player chimed in: "Yea, let them go. They are just trying to hearth out."

I really wouldn't like to be in that situation.

Mining in actual mines never works, unless you're much higher level, for just the reason you described. It's far better to go for nodes on mountainsides.

Thanks for the tips on going for nodes on mountainsides, had more success doing that.

And if you go back when you are a higher level, you're screwing people over just like you were screwed over and the cycle starts over again. 

Couldn't agree more!

I generally stay at area with enemies appropriate to my level, and I work on my secondary professions as I quest and level, single-minded grinding just to skill up a profession is not fun to me, and going back to low level area to rob the low level characters of their resources is just not right IMHO.


But not all hope is lost! Here's a decent encounter, well, kind of.

While I was working on the Bingle's supplies quest, I came upon a paladin who had three enemies on her and seemed to be in trouble, I pulled one of the enemies off her and placed some curses on the others she already engaged (those with grey background names). After we killed the enemies, she thanked me and asked me to roll for the chest nearby. I told her it's all hers, she was there first and I was just there for Bingle's supplies. She said she was there for the supplies too. While we were chatting, an enemy spawned near me, so I engaged it and the paladin kindly assisted.

It's really great to meet nice player.

While we were fighting the spawned enemy, someone ran in and looted the chest.

Oh well...

[Xanthix]

Mining is annoying at best, and griefers and node-stealers make it much more so. The way Blizzard spaced out the levels you can mine and smelt various ore for skillups doesn't help either.

Mining veins in lower-level areas is one thing. Stealing nodes from people obviously trying to mine them is quite another. If you see anyone anywhere near a node fighting a mob, it's best to assume they have the right to the node, or to ask first. The same goes for herbs.

And if someone is trying to steal the node you are mining, here's a trick you can do. If you have mined once and have the loot window open, don't take the loot out. The game won't let another miner start mining while you have an open loot window. In a related note, you cannot skin a corpse if it still has loot on it, in case you come across any ninja skinners.

[MongoJerry]

Mining veins in lower-level areas is one thing. Stealing nodes from people obviously trying to mine them is quite another. If you see anyone anywhere near a node fighting a mob, it's best to assume they have the right to the node, or to ask first. The same goes for herbs.

I agree with this statement completely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high level player going to a low level area to get copper, tin, peacebloom, or whatever. Call me an old foggie or something, but I have no compassion for retail players whining about low level mining and herbal nodes. I played in the beta when those nodes were actually rare. My God, there are so many nodes in the game now -- especially the lower level ones -- and they respawn so fast that there's no reason for anyone to complain about a lack of resources. The only exception I have is that I do have compassion for a low level player who has been fighting to get to a node. If a low level person is obviously fighting mobs near a node, I'll whisper them a quick, "Alright if I mine this ore?" But I have no problem with the idea of a high level player going to a low level area to herb or mine. That stuff will respawn fast enough (maybe in a different spot, but it will respawn) that the person's being in the area will have a negligible effect on a low level player trying to skill up their mining.

[Artega]

Actually, I'm mining the copper to make weapons and armor for my guildies, or to supply to guildies so they don't have to blow their money on copper at the AH.

I'm well aware it's a problem. The thing is, if they aren't in my guild or in an allied guild, I don't give a flying frag about them, even if they ARE on the same side as me. If they want copper right the heck now, they can buy it from me or many others at the AH. If it's not an immediate need, they can wait their turn or turn to THEIR guildies for help. It's not as though people circuit Durotar frequently.

[Tharn]

And how does this help prevent screwing over the younger characters in that area?  Oh, wait it doesn't.
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You would have to either remove possibility of chaning professions or place lots of low level nodes in high level areas. Choose what's worse.

I took mining at 33, because I see it as much better way to save for my mount than tailoring (with economy on my server anyway). Lvl 30+ zones have only iron or better (maybe some rare tin) and that's 125 mining. 1 round and a bit around Durotar, and I was high enough to mine Tin (65). Pity that smelting Tin and Bronze isn't much good for skilling mining up.

My alt warrior who is skilling mining as well in Durotar had no problem at all finding the nodes while questing there.

To Artega: You're yellow to horde in Durotar even on Normal servers

[kandrathe]

...I don't give a flying frag about them...
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I think he made his point.

[Mavfin]

I agree with this statement completely.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high level player going to a low level area to get copper, tin, peacebloom, or whatever.  Call me an old foggie or something, but I have no compassion for retail players whining about low level mining and herbal nodes.  I played in the beta when those nodes were actually rare.  My God, there are so many nodes in the game now -- especially the lower level ones -- and they respawn so fast that there's no reason for anyone to complain about a lack of resources.  The only exception I have is that I do have compassion for a low level player who has been fighting to get to a node.  If a low level person is obviously fighting mobs near a node, I'll whisper them a quick, "Alright if I mine this ore?"  But I have no problem with the idea of a high level player going to a low level area to herb or mine.  That stuff will respawn fast enough (maybe in a different spot, but it will respawn) that the person's in the area will have a negligible effect on a low level player trying to skill up their mining.
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And, I don't mind them mining it, but, of course, the ones I *see* are the ones who are stealing it while I'm clearing mobs so I can have it. The ones who quietly mine it, or ask if I'm mining it, whatever, and go on don't bother me at all, whatever their level, as stuff does respawn quickly. So I guess it's the high-level ninja-skinners/herbalists/miners that get me irritated.

If I'm walking through a lower-level area with my 30 warrior (who, strangely enough is skin/leather, don't ask), and see a low-level char fighting something I want to skin, I'll whack it a couple times till it's dead, and then see if they skin it or walk off. If they skin it, no problem. You kill it, you skin it. If they don't, I'll take it. Same with herbs on another char. Low-level is fighting near herb. I'll help, then see if they take it or ask if they're herb-gathering. If they are, fine, I'll walk on, if not, I'll grab it as I go through if it's something I need. However, I don't *go back to Elwynn/Durotar/etc* to mine/herb/skin, it's a walk-through thing. And if you just changed professions, fine. Say so, but don't steal it from someone fighting to clear it.

[Kevin]

And, I don't mind them mining it, but, of course, the ones I *see* are the ones who are stealing it while I'm clearing mobs so I can have it.  The ones who quietly mine it, or ask if I'm mining it, whatever, and go on don't bother me at all, whatever their level, as stuff does respawn quickly.  So I guess it's the high-level ninja-skinners/herbalists/miners that get me irritated. 
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Maybe that is my issue I never see anyone be polite about it. I play the game as escapism. One of the things I'm trying to escape are rude people so it just pisses me off even more. Of course I'm just naive to think people will behave better online when I know that studies show most people are even more rude online than face to face. It's just a lack of common curtesy that really gets me and not just in the game.

Yes there are a lot of nodes, and no I haven't had an issue keeping my profession up by just working on it as I quest, but it just pisses me off when I'm working to a node and a high level just walks in and grabs it. Gnolack has grabbed copper in lower areas before but I don't even go near the node if there is a lower level around. The few times I needed copper for making something for a guild member and I didn't have any from a young harvester char and someone was by the node I asked. I ask about skinning something if a person is near the corpse as well.

I would end up asking a lot if I were to change professions or if I had to go back to a lower area to skill up (assuming I didn't have the money to just buy the stuff to get in the iron age) I would attempt to do it in an off hour when less people are around.

Anyway I think I've found it's just the lack of curtesy that really bugs me. Not high levels taking low level resources. As to nodes in contested areas, I don't have an issue with the other faction jumping them. But if you are in contested areas you aren't dealing with lower level stuff your dealing with mid level.

[savaughn]

Maybe that is my issue I never see anyone be polite about it.  I play the game as escapism.  One of the things I'm trying to escape are rude people so it just pisses me off even more.  Of course I'm just naive to think people will behave better online when I know that studies show most people are even more rude online than face to face.  It's just a lack of common curtesy that really gets me and not just in the game.

Yes there are a lot of nodes, and no I haven't had an issue keeping my profession up by just working on it as I quest, but it just pisses me off when I'm working to a node and a high level just walks in and grabs it.[right][snapback]69306[/snapback][/right]

This is kind of a reply to the whole thread, but this comment bugged me. If "working to a node" means killing the one monster right next to it that will aggro you if you mine it, sure that makes sense. If you're talking about clearing a swath to get to the mine from where you are - no way. That high level got there somehow, most likely by killing just as many monsters as you did. Just because you were heading in that direction doesn't mean you own that mining node. He has the same right to get there and mine it that you do.

The fact of the matter is that if a high level is heading towards a copper mine, they probably need it. You stop using copper for engineering or blacksmithing very quickly. If you're keeping your crafting up, you stop using it for anything meaningful about the same time you start seeing tin, or later iron, show up. If that player is mining copper, he probably needs it because he switched professions or is providing support for low level players. (The argument that Artega was maligning low level players by supplying equipment for low level players has a lot of irony embedded in it.)

I guess what I'm saying is, if I see a high level player mine a node, it doesn't upset me. I don't feel I had some divine right to that node. He needed it, good for him. There is TONS of copper out there. If you need copper just go walk around Dun Morogh for a bit - you can pull out a hundred bars in one trip if you like, almost enough to get you up to using bronze. The game isn't hurting for copper and getting upset because you were eventually going to get to a particular mining node but it was gone when you got there ... well, sharing is a good thing.

Not to harp on it, but on a similar theme if two people are playing monster leap frog to get to a mining node (which happens all the time) and the other guy gets it - that's just life. If you had gotten to the mine, he'd have had the same story to tell about that rotten guy who'd stolen his mining node. Just hang out and get the next one. :)

[Quark]

This is kind of a reply to the whole thread, but this comment bugged me.  If "working to a node" means killing the one monster right next to it that will aggro you if you mine it, sure that makes sense.  If you're talking about clearing a swath to get to the mine from where you are - no way.  That high level got there somehow, most likely by killing just as many monsters as you did.  Just because you were heading in that direction doesn't mean you own that mining node.  He has the same right to get there and mine it that you do.
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High levels generally aren't fighting to the node. They're walking around thanks to their reduced aggro radius while you have to fight to get to it.

[savaughn]

High levels generally aren't fighting to the node.  They're walking around thanks to their reduced aggro radius while you have to fight to get to it.
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To copper? Walking along the edges of the mountains gets you there with no aggro issues 9 out of 10 times. But regardless, the expectation being placed here is that a person standing in front of a copper mine should look around and see if there is someone fighting any where in the area and if there is, not mine the node? Oh, there's a gnome fighting off in the distance, he may or may not be heading here. I should stop playing, wait for him to finish his fight, engage him in conversation to find out if he may or may not be interested in mining this copper node, and only then should I proceed to mine it. And it's being suggested that this is the obvious, intuitive, and morally obligated set of behavior.

If you're right on top of the mine, it's obvious you're going there and other players should respect that. If you aren't there yet, you aren't there yet. The only exception to this is when a node is "guarded", such as the nodes in the wolf lairs in Elwynn or the trogg nests in Loch Modan. Just like chests, tif you clear these, it's fair you get them. But fully expecting other players to guess your intent - I don't expect that as a low level character, and wouldn't expect it as a high level. That's just not playing well with others.

[Occhidiangela]

My main is a 30 warrior now, and I keep my mitts off nice blue staves and  try not to grab BOP stuff I won't use, but most BOE stuff, I roll for, and those who group with me know that I'll happily give it up to them IF THEY'RE GOING TO WEAR IT.  If they're just going to sell it, I can do that as well as they.  I also notice that the rogue or hunter who gripes (and it's always a rogue or hunter who whines, a mage/priest will ask for the item nicely) is usually the one slurping up all the good mail/mace drops, so I have little sympathy. 

Any of them who say 'Hey, I needed that!, I could wear it now' or say early in the instance, "I'm looking for sucn-and-such" will get a pass from me on said item(s).  Also, if someone wants a cloth green item that my warrior rolled for, and are going to send it to their alt, I won't give, as I have alts, too.  Fair is fair.  If *the char in the instance with us* is going to wear it, I'll give it to you, no problem.

If it seems like a really nice player, and not a 'gimme itemz', they're more likely to get them, too.  I actually give up more than I refuse, but 'gimme itemz' will usually get a 'heck no' or similar from me.

One thing I WILL NOT tolerate in an instance is someone screwing with the loot rules halfway through.  Messing with the loot rules w/o consulting with the rest of the group is time for me to leave.  I no longer trust the leader, so it's time to go.  Thankfully this only happened twice in an instance.  The loot rules were changed, I said something about it, and the leader laughed me off and took the next 5 greens in a row, and I calmly stopped, left the group and hearthed out.  I'm not greedy, but I do like my share.  It's how I keep my gold supply up.

Anyone have any comments?  Anyone think I was way off base?  Just curious really, since I've only played about 3 weeks.
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This thread discussion has some interesting tidbits, but in the main is amusing to me. I recall similar discussions about Whirly Barbs and MF'er on the River of Flame. Loot leachers. Folks going hostile to scare leaches away. And so on.

You can't take the arsehole out of some gamers, no matter how hard you wish you could. Their $49.50 is as good as mine at EB. You can't legislate courteous play, no matter how many GM's there are. The comments in re "plays well with others" are spot on.

One can, it seems, apply reputation in a very real sense, which is nice I think. :whistling:

Occhi

[kandrathe]

I too try not to sweat the details. Was I bummed yesterday when I picked up VC's head, filling my last inventory spot just when the roll for the cool blue BOP sword landed on me, then due to my out of space problem bumped it to the mage who didn't want it. Sure. :) But, if I want one bad enough I can raise the gold and go the AH and get one. It's a game and I use it to relieve stress, rather than cause me more.

It has been my experience that good equipment while important is not the break all that it was in DII, and talent choices and application of skill during play are 90% of effective WOW play.

[SoulEdge]

If "working to a node" means killing the one monster right next to it that will aggro you if you mine it, sure that makes sense. 

Perhaps I didn't make it clear, but yes this is what I meant in the first two cases.

And I have to say it was pretty much bad luck or bad timing as well, since they probably just got into the mine and saw no enemies in sight, so they ran all the way in and by the time they got to where I was, they just jumped onto node.

Unless, of course, they have been stalking me, since I am positive I was the only person in the mine doing the killing until they suddenly showed up at the node. :shuriken:

:P Hahahaa, too imaginative. :blush:

Not to harp on it, but on a similar theme if two people are playing monster leap frog to get to a mining node (which happens all the time) and the other guy gets it - that's just life.

Agree and I have no problem with that. But in my case, it's different because it was supposed to be the other's player's turn to engage the enemy.



I don't expect other players to read my mind, that would be spooky. But whenever I see other player near a resource, chest or what not that I am interested in, I will stand at a suitable distance and observe. If I think the player needs help, I will chip in, if not, I will wait until s/he is done. I will only move in when s/he has left the area, or if s/he has taken what I am interested in, I will move on.

I think that's just proper manner.

Or maybe I am just weird, because I have this habit of going to the banker who is free, and not to those who have other players in front of them.

Virtual privacy zone, anyone? :lol: