Hunters, AotH, and Maintainance

[Quark]

... and then the followers, who just 2 hours ago had been screaming about something no sane person understood, all rejoiced at once! Well, okay, they didn't all rejoice. Many claimed favoritism, others complained about priorities. But, still, rejoicing was had and the hunters were satisfied. For a day!

Sorry about that, I've been reading Blizzard's forums. Anyone, Tyren has a nice post that talks about how the Aspect of the Hawk bugs have been squashed during the latest maintainance.

Apparantly someone posted how to exploit the bugs to add to attack power recently :shuriken:

[Treesh]

Apparantly someone posted how to exploit the bugs to add to attack power recently  :shuriken:
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It's a little disheartening to know that the quickest way for bugs to be fixed is if people find a way to exploit them instead of letting the bugs be a liability. Still, I'm glad that it's fixed finally.

[Xanthix]

It's a little disheartening to know that the quickest way for bugs to be fixed is if people find a way to exploit them instead of letting the bugs be a liability.  Still, I'm glad that it's fixed finally.
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No, actually. The quickest way to get a bug fixed is to find a way to exploit it that causes massive chaos, and get it on film, and then post it to the forums. I refer you to the warrior rally and the warlock pet curse auction house kerplosion.

Now if I could only find a way to make warriors' miss rates crash the server...

[kandrathe]

No, actually. The quickest way to get a bug fixed is to find a way to exploit it that causes massive chaos, and get it on film, and then post it to the forums. I refer you to the warrior rally and the warlock pet curse auction house kerplosion.

Now if I could only find a way to make warriors' miss rates crash the server...
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All Blizzard employees and executives should be required to play WOW daily on a PVP server.

[Treesh]

No, actually. The quickest way to get a bug fixed is to find a way to exploit it that causes massive chaos, and get it on film, and then post it to the forums. I refer you to the warrior rally and the warlock pet curse auction house kerplosion.

Now if I could only find a way to make warriors' miss rates crash the server...
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It was implied that making the exploit public was part of the deal.

Edit: And my rogues are so there with the miss rates crashing the servers. It's not just the poor warriors who have the miss rate issues; it's just the most complained about. ;)

[Artega]

It was implied that making the exploit public was part of the deal.

Edit: And my rogues are so there with the miss rates crashing the servers.  It's not just the poor warriors who have the miss rate issues; it's just the most complained about.  ;)
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Hey, you get Precision, at least. We don't.

In fact, we're the ONLY melee-focused class the DOESN'T get some form of accuracy-enhancement! Even HUNTERS get Precision!

Thanks, Blizzard.

[Treesh]

Hey, you get Precision, at least.  We don't.

In fact, we're the ONLY melee-focused class the DOESN'T get some form of accuracy-enhancement!  Even HUNTERS get Precision!

Thanks, Blizzard.
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Yeah, you guys really did get screwed over with the miss rate. That's the reason why I dropped my undead warrior so long ago - the miss rate frustrated me way too much that early. I was running with a mage and was basically pointless because I couldn't hit, couldn't keep critters off of him because I couldn't land hits. It was just too frustrating. My gnome warriors though don't seem to have as many of the misses as the undead one did. Maybe I'm just expecting to miss so frequently with them that it's not as frustrating anymore.

[Quark]

Hey, you get Precision, at least.  We don't.
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We don't get Precision, we have an option of getting it. You act as if all Paladins, Rogues, and Hunters automatically have 3-5% improved chance to hit.

The way my build goes, there's no chance of Precision whatsoever. And I get the same 5-straight misses as everyone else. Like Warriors are losing Rage because of that, I'm losing combo points.

[savaughn]

Well, that's one major one out of the way. For those who are curious as to what else is out there in the way of Hunter bugs, the list is maintained here. That was definitely one of the top six most heard issues, though. I'm VERY glad it's gone. Have to check it out tonight.

[Mavfin]

Yeah, you guys really did get screwed over with the miss rate.  That's the reason why I dropped my undead warrior so long ago - the miss rate frustrated me way too much that early.  I was running with a mage and was basically pointless because I couldn't hit, couldn't keep critters off of him because I couldn't land hits.  It was just too frustrating.  My gnome warriors though don't seem to have as many of the misses as the undead one did.  Maybe I'm just expecting to miss so frequently with them that it's not as frustrating anymore.
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Interesting. My druid's bear whiffs a lot, but my warrior doesn't miss much. She's +73 to STR, too, wonder if that helps?

[mjdoom]

Disclaimer: I started writing and this post just kept getting longer, read the beginning if you are interested in my perspective on miss rates (more relevant to the posts above me) and read toward the end if you are interested in my current build idea for my warrior.

My warrior is up to level 31 now (note, fix sig) and my experiences with missing seem reasonable. The thing I have noticed most is that miss rates seems to go up very quickly as you fight mobs that are +1, +2, etc. levels above you. As long as I am fighting mobs my level or below miss rates have been very reasonable in my experience. There are also the nuisances of dodges, parries, and blocks but those are not actual misses so I don't consider them when looking at the numbers. The other thing is that the mobs are probably getting more misses/dodges/parries/blocks trying to attack me so I consider it a fair tradeoff. :P

That said, especially when soloing a bad string from the random number generator can be very frustrating. With only a chance to pop a pot once (twice in rare circumstances) and bad run with the random number generator can easily mean death for a warrior. I have literally had battles that have come down to the last hit and seen both myself and the mob miss at chances for a certain killing blow and die instead. If you were a mob you'd be complaining about the same thing :shuriken:

I really don't know if there is an actual bug with miss rates or it is more of a perception issue (especially related to parries/blocks, etc.) but IMO it has been reasonable most of the time. Another note is the general item dependence of warriors which can strike here and make a notable difference (it helps having an alt and great guildies to funnel stuff to you).

As a warrior I've found that I can avoid taking damage fairly well (and mitigate that damage when I do get hit) and my dps has been respectable even with 1h weapons. I tend to be a little more patient with kill speed though (having a disc/holy priest as your main will help with that) so your mileage may vary. Currently with a decent healer to back me up I am almost invincible against similar level mobs though.

As one final note to those who might be interested my current build is mostly Fury and Arms but after I get Piercing Howl every point up to 60 is going into Protection in anticipation of tanking in bigger instances. I currently have:

Arms:
Deflection -5
Tactical Mastery - 3

Fury:
Cruelty - 5
Unbridled Wrath - 4

<Future Points>
Improved Demoralizing Shout - 5
Unbridled Wrath - 1 (to max)
Piercing Howl

Protection:
Anticipation - 5

<Future Points>
Shield Specialization - 5
Toughness - 5
Improved Shield Block - 3
Improved Revenge - 3
Improved Taunt - 2
Improved Sunder - 3
Concussion Blow

If anyone has any comments on this build I'd love to hear them. I'm looking to make a tank that can deal enough damage that I feel like I'm contributing just a little more than sundering the mobs into oblivion, we'll see if it works.

Sorry for rambling off topic so much, this little line just sparked my interest in throwing this out there.

- mjdoom

Edit: Small edit for readability.

[stabby]

Interesting.&nbsp; My druid's bear whiffs a lot, but my warrior doesn't miss much.&nbsp; She's +73 to STR, too, wonder if that helps?

Hitrate is only a function of having your weaponskill capped. While druid animal forms utilize the skill for whatever weapon you happen to have equipped as a caster, they don't actually award you any skill for using it. This is part of the reason why feral druids are whiny (failure to cap weaponskill == missing == pain).

Honestly, I'm personally of the opinion that the miss streak thing is blown out of proportion. I rarely miss more than twice consecutively, fighting yellow mobs, and the missrate I do have is easily chalked up to coincidence. Currently, I have effectively +1 level worth of weaponskill due to being a human using a mace, and +1% to hit from the Blackstone Ring off of Princess Theradras. I don't dual-wield, though, which seems to be the major source of complaints for a lot of people.

[Mavfin]

Hitrate is only a function of having your weaponskill capped.&nbsp; While druid animal forms utilize the skill for whatever weapon you happen to have equipped as a caster, they don't actually award you any skill for using it.&nbsp; This is part of the reason why feral druids are whiny (failure to cap weaponskill == missing == pain).

Honestly, I'm personally of the opinion that the miss streak thing is blown out of proportion.&nbsp; I rarely miss more than twice consecutively, fighting yellow mobs, and the missrate I do have is easily chalked up to coincidence.&nbsp; Currently, I have effectively +1 level worth of weaponskill due to being a human using a mace, and +1% to hit from the Blackstone Ring off of Princess Theradras.&nbsp; I don't dual-wield, though, which seems to be the major source of complaints for a lot of people.
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I'm same on the warrior, human with 1h mace. And the druid in question is only lvl 19.

[Treesh]

Honestly, I'm personally of the opinion that the miss streak thing is blown out of proportion.&nbsp; I rarely miss more than twice consecutively, fighting yellow mobs, and the missrate I do have is easily chalked up to coincidence.&nbsp;
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My poor twin gnome warrior does not have dual wield yet and will frequently have 5+ misses in a row (this is not including parries/dodges/blocks) even with her one handed maces being maxed.

There was actually a statistical analysis done by someone on the WoW forums (and not just the normal "I swear I miss more! Look!" posts). He used a naked warrior with maxed unarmed skill, no talent points placed and was level 40-something. There was a 8-9% miss rate rather than the base 5% that blizzard says is there for those with maxed weapon skills. Now, if only I could dig up that post, I'd be happy. If I find it, I'll edit in the URL here.

Edit: Found it! Thanks Trillian for logging everything all the time. ;) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...p=1#post1551150

[Kevin]

My poor twin gnome warrior does not have dual wield yet and will frequently have 5+ misses in a row (this is not including parries/dodges/blocks) even with her one handed maces being maxed.&nbsp;

There was actually a statistical analysis done by someone on the WoW forums (and not just the normal "I swear I miss more!&nbsp; Look!" posts).&nbsp; He used a naked warrior with maxed unarmed skill, no talent points placed and was level 40-something.&nbsp; There was a 8-9% miss rate rather than the base 5% that blizzard says is there for those with maxed weapon skills.&nbsp; Now, if only I could dig up that post, I'd be happy.&nbsp; If I find it, I'll edit in the URL here.
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To add to that I've used several of the mods that parse the combat log on the fly and calculate mis rates, actual DPS, number of crits, etc. I have done some limited testing with the DPS monitor that cosmos includeds with maxed weapon skill against mobs 1 and 2 below me as well as even level mobs. The 3 trials on 2 levels below me had a 6% average miss rate. The 2 trials on the mobs 1 level below were 6.6%. The 3 trials on even level mobs averaged out to 7.1% miss rate. This was with a dagger on a warrior (and dagger was maxed) while wearing a shield. Screenshots of the combat logs on the limited tests were sent to Blizzard.

In the big warrior info dump that was done awhile ago the devs said it was a planned base miss of 5% for maxed weapon skill against an even level mob. That is not what I was getting and it is not generally what my percieved miss rate is either. The reply Treesh was talking about is in that same thread, which should be linked in a thread somewhere here on the lounge that I haven't searched for yet.

[Treesh]

The reply Treesh was talking about is in that same thread, which should be linked in a thread somewhere here on the lounge that I haven't searched for yet.
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Actually, I was thinking of a different one than the posts in the Kalgan thread. I've edited in the URL that I was thinking about in my previous post.

[Kevin]

Actually, I was thinking of a different one than the posts in the Kalgan thread.&nbsp; I've edited in the URL that I was thinking about in my previous post.
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Ah I thought that thread had been linked in, but I was thinking of another one. :)

[Artega]

We don't get Precision, we have an option of getting it.&nbsp; You act as if all Paladins, Rogues, and Hunters automatically have 3-5% improved chance to hit.

The way my build goes, there's no chance of Precision whatsoever.&nbsp; And I get the same 5-straight misses as everyone else.&nbsp; Like Warriors are losing Rage because of that, I'm losing combo points.
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The difference is, you have the option to take Precision if the missrate really bugs you. We don't.

And missing combo points is NOT the same as missing rage - CPs are used to pull off special abilties and do extra damage. Rage is used to use normal abilties. You can still use Sinister Strike whether or not you have CPs; we can't use Strike (the closest basic skill we have to SS) unless we have Rage. Then again, comparing Rogues to Warriors is like comparing apples to potatoes.

The missrate never really bothers me much anymore. I do more PvP than anything else at this point, and I can't remember the last time I MISSED a player completely. Those ghostly citizens in Stratholme with their uber dodginess get annoying very quickly, though.

[Xanthix]

We don't get Precision, we have an option of getting it.&nbsp; You act as if all Paladins, Rogues, and Hunters automatically have 3-5% improved chance to hit.
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Actually, I think Paladins, Rogues, and Hunters DO hit 3-5% more often. In the big warrior reply, Blizzard said that the miss rates for all warrior special abilities was 9-10% instead of the 5% it should have been. So if as a Rogue about half your hits are special abilities/spells, then you ARE hitting about 2.5% of the time more than Warriors.

And I agree with Artega about Precision: you'll get no sympathy from warriors that you have to spend 3-5 talent points to get Precision. Most warriors would spend ten or twenty talent points to get it!

[MongoJerry]

All Blizzard employees and executives should be required to play WOW daily on a PVP server.

Nearly all Blizzard employees who are a part of WoW development play WoW like crack addicts, I understand, including on the PvP server. It takes time to fix bugs and add new content, and things have to be prioritized.