Balrogs

[Ebon]

After playing Diablo several times i noticed Balrog-kin are probably the most harassing monster in Diablo, for a number of merits: 1. can't be stunned, 2. they're fast, 3. they circle you, making Lightning hard to use, 4. no safe way to face Inferno.
This especially is bad for warriors, who have to come close enough. Till my warrior defeats three Balrog-kin, he loses about 5 healing potions. Do you know tactics in safely defeating Balrogs by warriors?
My character trains either fully in Dex or partly in Mag AND Vit, alternatively. As a result he's not very hardy by the end, having even less than 200 HP, but enough mana to cast 3 or 4 Fire Walls or Chain Lightnings (depending on level); the latter won't be enough for killing Balrogs tho.

[Sekel]

I cant agree at all.
I consider Balrogs as very fine mosters :-)
1) Cant be stunned -> Why do you need stun? They mostly use inferno, even if they are standing next to you.
2) They're fast -> hehe
3) They circle you -> yeah, thats great property , if youre Warrior. You can wake up more than 4 and hadle it one by one, even if youre IM character.
4) no safe way to face Inferno -> well, some fire resist are fine :-)

But i have to admit, that uniques of balrogs can be VERY BIG PROBLEM, especially for IM or low AC characters (I mean uniques with pack -> Windspawn and Blacskull). Well, you can park Windspawn over lava river, but Blackskull.... Dont
wish anyone Balrogs in 13 in Ironman game....

I think, there are two classes, who loves balrogs. CC Rogues and Warriors :-)

[Obi2Kenobi]

I suggest getting some fire resist if you're having trouble with inferno. I can't recall them having given me much trouble. It was always those accursed succubi that got me...

Balrogs are awesome! Got to love that death animation.

[Ebon]

But i have to admit, that uniques of balrogs can be VERY BIG PROBLEM, especially for IM or low AC characters (I mean uniques with pack -> Windspawn and Blacskull).  Well, you can park Windspawn over lava river, but Blackskull....  Dont
wish anyone Balrogs in 13 in Ironman game....
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Heh, they're just like hasted fatsos (overlords), teaming together and looking menacing (!!!CAUSING PAAAANIIIIC!!!! :P )... Superior numbers do the trick. ;)

One more thing: what's Ironman?

[Obi2Kenobi]

Heh, they're just like hasted fatsos (overlords), teaming together and looking menacing (!!!CAUSING PAAAANIIIIC!!!! :P )... Superior numbers do the trick. ;)

One more thing: what's Ironman?
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Ironman is the most awesome way to play.
http://realmsbeyond.net/diablo/vironman.html

[LemmingofGlory]

After playing Diablo several times i noticed Balrog-kin are probably the most harassing monster in Diablo, for a number of merits: 1. can't be stunned, 2. they're fast, 3. they circle you, making Lightning hard to use, 4. no safe way to face Inferno.

Re: 1. Yes, they can; they just have very fast hit recovery. It is, however, extremely difficult to stunlock them. For instance, you can stunlock Gorefeast with a double flash (assuming it does sufficient damage) because he has no resistance to magic.

Re: 3. Then don't let them. Draw them down hallways so that they must walk toward you and into any projectiles you fire at them.

Re: 4. I've never had problems with Megademon inferno outside of characters with really horrible resistance and characters doing limited-potion games (e.g. Ironman). In fact, I find Megademons' use of inferno to be a blessing compared to how awful they'd be if they had the same AI as Blacksull's mob.

Do you know tactics in safely defeating Balrogs by warriors?

Have good fire resists and return to town for additional potions as necessary.

My character trains either fully in Dex or partly in Mag AND Vit, alternatively.

With non-variant characters, you can completely ignore vit until you can buy elixirs. There's really no need for it, and any additional HPs you might need can be obtained via enchanted items.

-Lemmy

[Ebon]

With non-variant characters, you can completely ignore vit until you can buy elixirs. There's really no need for it, and any additional HPs you might need can be obtained via enchanted items.

-Lemmy
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I don't think I like the idea of having only 108 HP in caves. For good measure, I add 1 vit for 4 hp/level. Anyway, my attribute 'strategy' has paid off by now, so no prob. ;)

[LemmingofGlory]

I don't think I like the idea of having only 108 HP in caves. For good measure, I add 1 vit for 4 hp/level. Anyway, my attribute 'strategy' has paid off by now, so no prob. ;)

High blocking and good tactics make early vit pumping unnecessary. It allows you to pump other stats; namely, strength which (courtesy of stun damage) allows you to avoid damage by stopping opponents' attacks. Strength's contribution is minimal early on (which is why dex for clvls 1-9 is ideal), but by mid clvls (espc. when you hit Normal Hell at ~clvl 20) you'll want a sufficient pool of strength so that you depend less on item damage for hitting those "stun damage" plateaus.

Numerically,
WarA : At clvl 20, 19 additional points (i.e. 1/level) in STR = 3.8 damage
WarB : At clvl 20, 19 additional points (i.e. 1/level) in VIT = 38 hps

WarA can stun more enemies than WarB. The melee enemies that WarA can stunlock may be considered non-threatening (assuming Player plays intelligently). As such, WarA has fewer threats than WarB.

WarB can absorb roughly one high damage attack more than WarA before he has to drink. Yay.

-Lemmy

[Ebon]

High blocking and good tactics make early vit pumping unnecessary.
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Yeah, but you can't block magic (non-physical) attacks if you're nonzero resistant to them, as well as lightning. That's why I pump a single point in vit: not to die in 4 hits from the soul burners. :) I hate depening on fate and luck (and 'New Games'), you know. Speaking of this, I think non-mage warriors need real luck to beat the Skeleton King in a first game (I haven't tried with a "mage warrior" - one who trains first only in MAG).

[Nystul]

Speaking of this, I think non-mage warriors need real luck to beat the Skeleton King in a first game (I haven't tried with a "mage warrior" - one who trains first only in MAG).
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I used to think this was true a long time ago, but Ironman experience has proven otherwise. More often than not, a warrior who clears the first 3 dungeon levels by himself in his first game can successfully kill Leoric in melee (without going to level 4 first), on the first try, even without buying anything from town.

If you are building a warrior to kill Leoric in your first game, the best method is usually to put all stat points into dexterity until it is maxed or Leo is dead. Leoric's toughness comes from his ability to steal life, healing him whenever he hits you. With maxed dexterity plus the warrior's first game blocking bonus, you can greatly reduce the amount of times Leoric hits you. You can always max dexterity by clvl 9, and it is not uncommon to reach this level by the time you clear dlvl 3. If you have to face him at clvl 8, you will usually still win, but it becomes a much tougher battle.

Within the last week or so, I've been playing a lot of IM warriors. I think I died to Leoric once, and killed him about five times. Once, I killed him without drinking a potion. Once, I killed him using only one small red potion. The other times required probably 5 red potions on average. Weapon used ranged from plain club to plain flail... usually a morning star.

[Urza-DSF]

Yeah, but you can't block magic (non-physical) attacks if you're nonzero resistant to them, as well as lightning. That's why I pump a single point in vit: not to die in 4 hits from the soul burners. :)  I hate depening on fate and luck (and 'New Games'), you know. Speaking of this, I think non-mage warriors need real luck to beat the Skeleton King in a first game (I haven't tried with a "mage warrior" - one who trains first only in MAG).
[right][snapback]72775[/snapback][/right]

What? Its actually easier for a warrior to take on Leoric in the first game as long as he finds/buys a halfway decent flail and pumps DEX to full before starting on STR since all classes loose their blocking bonus after the first game (Warriors have an effective +30 to dex for blocking IIRC).

With time, careful playing, and a bit of luck, Leoric can be a breeze.

Edit: Heh, looks like Nystul posted at the same time.

[Ebon]

Huh? Yep, tho I never really play it all in a single REAL game. I simply avoid redoing each level when coming back (and I often do :) )
I gotta say that even with 60 dex it's hard, cause I rarely am lucky enough to get a warrior's hammer :rolleyes: - when I do, it's a breeze. Otherwise I have to wade with measly 80 TH, which doesn't help much.

[[vL]Kp]

Huh? Yep, tho I never really play it all in a single REAL game. I simply avoid redoing each level when coming back (and I often do :) )[right][snapback]72798[/snapback][/right]

Their point is that if you did it in a single real game, you'd still have your blocking bonus when you get there. That bonus helps quite a bit, since it's the equivalent of +30 dex for purposes of blocking.

[LemmingofGlory]

Yeah, but you can't block magic (non-physical) attacks if you're nonzero resistant to them, as well as lightning. That's why I pump a single point in vit: not to die in 4 hits from the soul burners.

By the time you hit Soul Burners you should have some magic resistance. If you don't, you'd do well to re-play earlier dlvls until you do. And, again, you can minimize the amount of damage you take by using good tactics.

I hate depening on fate and luck (and 'New Games'), you know.

Then you'd love playing a Naked BARbarian. Fate and luck abandon you. All that matters is experience points and having enough gold to buy more potions. And the best thing is that afterwards, playing a normal Warrior will seem like the best thing that ever happened to you. It'll also give you a feel for when VIT can really make a difference for a character; compare that to how it benefits a normal Warrior.

-Lemmy

[Ebon]

Interesting strategy. Hope it works. Thanks. Good night. :)