Shaman's Role in Instance play

[Gurnsey]

I haven't seen too much discussion on Shaman here, and I figure it's probably because so many are Alliance, but I figure I'd ask.

My Shaman has been a Duo-er most of his life. In our Shaman/Druid team, I am sort of the 'Tank', and my job is to keep the enemy we are currently pounding on facing me, so that she, in Cat form, can backstab the life out of them. I don't neccessarily try to keep all of the mobs on me, as we can both take the hits pretty equally, so I'm not a traditional tank. We tend to trade off healing - if I need a heal, she heals me, and if she needs a heal, I heal her. We do very well - we are blasting through Desolace right now and having a great time exterminating the Burning Blade and rasslin' up Kodo.

Now, this all goes down the tubes when we want to group up. We are in our mid-30's now and we haven't done an Instance since a 4-player run of Wailing Caverns. We had a blast and we'd like to do it again, but...

What is my role as a Shaman in the group? I think I'd have trouble being a primary healer - shamans don't heal that well. I don't think I'd do too well being the Tank either - a Warrior or Bear Druid is certainly far better at that. Being a secondary healer doesn't usually take up too much time, and my raising and wipe-recovery I hope I never have to use (we had only one death in WC, from a mob spotting us across a chasm and running aaaaalll the way around to get to us, bringing every friend on the way), so what do I do? Am I damage? Should I use my Earthshock to interupt spellcasters, or does the extra aggro it causes make it not worth using? Are there many enemies who benifit from being Purged, or is that mostly a PVP tool? Which totems do people like to see (I almost never have a use for them in our duo)?

I haven't seen too many Shaman players on the boards here, but I'm sure many of you have grouped with them before at the mid to high levels. Can you help me find some direction?

Thanks!

[MongoJerry]

What is my role as a Shaman in the group?  I think I'd have trouble being a primary healer - shamans don't heal that well.  I don't think I'd do too well being the Tank either - a Warrior or Bear Druid is certainly far better at that.  Being a secondary healer doesn't usually take up too much time, and my raising and wipe-recovery I hope I never have to use (we had only one death in WC, from a mob spotting us across a chasm and running aaaaalll the way around to get to us, bringing every friend on the way), so what do I do?  Am I damage?  Should I use my Earthshock to interupt spellcasters, or does the extra aggro it causes make it not worth using?  Are there many enemies who benifit from being Purged, or is that mostly a PVP tool?  Which totems do people like to see (I almost never have a use for them in our duo)?

In my high level groups, shamans are considered secondary healers/rezers, totem buff support, and all around dps people. Generally, yes, you should be focused on dps for most of the fight and interrupting spellcasters is defiinitely a good thing -- especially as a way to pull them to the group. As far as healing, many shamans take on themselves the role of making sure the group's priest stays alive. It's a common thing for priests to focus so much on healing other people that they forget to look after their own health and keeping your priest healed will let them focus their energies on the tank and squishy mages in the party.

As far as totems go, it takes a lot of practice and experience to learn which ones to use in which situations. However, yes you should be using your totems a lot. Shamans who don't use their totems are generally considered noobs by their partymates, and I've seen lots of private whispers like, "He doesn't even use totems!" Specific totems I see a lot are Windfury or agility totems (there are arguments on which one is best). Also, resistance totems can be useful in situations where there are a lot of spellcasting mobs. In areas where mobs use a lot of poison and disease attacks, obviously those cleansing totems are nice. On occation grounding and/or tremor totems can be very useful to prevent fears and/or sleep and sheeping on your party. Finally, when you're dealing with a mass of nonelite mobs -- for example in Gnomeregan -- a nova totem followed by a magma totem can help you do some excellent aoe damage so that your party's mage and/or warlock doesn't have to do all the work. Just let the warrior in the party build up a little aggro with a shout or something so that mobs don't attack and kill the nova totem before it goes off.

[Gurnsey]

...interrupting spellcasters is defiinitely a good thing...

Who else has a ranged spell interruption? Mages only? I forgot that spell-interruption was pretty rare until I was playing an alt (and getting spelled to death from afar). I'll have to try having Earthshock I for minimal mana cost/aggro, as well as my highest level Earthshock for damage as well as interruption later in a fight as it does quite good damage for an instant-cast.

As far as totems go, it takes a lot of practice and experience to learn which ones to use in which situations.  However, yes you should be using your totems a lot.  Shamans who don't use their totems are generally considered noobs by their partymates, and I've seen lots of private whispers like, "He doesn't even use totems!" 

Thanks for the great info. As far as Totems go: I don't know about other Shaman's experiences, but I don't find myself dropping too many totems in solo/duo play. Very rarely I'll use a Stoneclaw to take the heat off; though it rarely lasts longer than a heal's worth of time, it can save my life. Situationally, I'll use the resistance totems, the poison-cleansing and Tremor totem, though I haven't seen much effect with the resistance totems (I only have the first level of fire/frost at my level, +30 resistance). I don't find myself dropping any particular totems for every fight. I suppose it'll take some grouping experience to see what works well.

A couple of totem-related questions, if anyone knows:

In regards the Grounding Totem, it is often hard to differentiate between mob spells and mob abilities. If the Grounding can suck up non-damage things like stuns and disarms, I can see a lot more use for it, but I have a feeling that most of these are 'abilities' and not spells.

Strength of Earth Totem - does anyone see any need for this? Theoretically, the strength boost should help melee'rs damage and blocking. I knew that the Agility boost from Grace of Air was desirable, but is it better than the Strength boost (not that both of these can't be out at once)? Are either of these desireable enough to merit the Talent Improvements, as I am deep enough into the required tree (I can't get to Thottbot right now for some reason to put a link in)? I have read several 'Talent Guides' for Shaman that say no, but most seem to think more along soloing/PVP lines rather than the 'help your team succeed' lines that I am looking for.

Thanks again!

[MongoJerry]

Who else has a ranged spell interruption?  Mages only?  I forgot that spell-interruption was pretty rare until I was playing an alt (and getting spelled to death from afar).  I'll have to try having Earthshock I for minimal mana cost/aggro, as well as my highest level Earthshock for damage as well as interruption later in a fight as it does quite good damage for an instant-cast.

Priests can get the talent spell, Silence, if they invest heavily (21 points) in the shadow tree.

Thanks for the great info.  As far as Totems go:  I don't know about other Shaman's experiences, but I don't find myself dropping too many totems in solo/duo play.

Yep, exactly. But in group play, those totems start becoming valuable, because they benefit several people at once. A shaman who doesn't drop totems is still playing like a soloer. The more you drop totems -- particularly the right totems for the right situations -- the better your party will think of you.

Another very useful totem I forgot to mention is Earthbind that can slow the mobs down for the party and make things much easier on squishy mages and priests when they pull aggro.

[Icebird]

Priests can get the talent spell, Silence, if they invest heavily (21 points) in the shadow tree.

The warlock's Felhunter has Spell Lock which silences a caster for 5 or 6 seconds. If you're dealing with casters, a warlock should almost always have a Felhunter out. (They have naturally high resists, plus Devour Magic for removing magic debuffs from party members, and buffs from enemies).

Chris

[Watto44]

I actually use totems quite a lot when I solo, probably because I don't have anyone to duo with all the time. It's pretty much strength when I'm using a one hander and a shield - for the extra damage - and stoneskin when I'm using a two hander, which kind-of-sort-of-not-really makes up for the lack of a shield.

As for instances, Mongo has pretty much hit it on the head: use your totems and add to the overall dps. As for which totems, that's totally situational and the best way to learn when to use what is to jump into some instances.

Also, unless your druid friend is along with you, be prepared to be the primary healer up until the higher levels. Trust me, it will happen. (Heck, I was stuck tanking in the scarlet monestary the other day...fun, but pretty challending.)

What else, what else? Oh yeah, don't forget ankhs. (Again, trust me, it will happen.) Umm, and don't forget to get your party to pull mobs back to a safe area...those totems can agro mobs from some weird spots.

One last thing, what are people's thoughts on the two "stream" totems, healing stream and mana stream? I usually put one or the other down when I'm grouping, but I've been wondering if it's worth it. Would like to hear people's thoughts.

PS. Thanks for starting this thread Gurnsey. :D

[iyguy]

When I solo or am in a group without a main tank, I always drop grace of air and usually strength of earth. Grace of air is nice because it increases your defense (AC, dodge, block, etc.) and improves your crit chances, which is especially nice if you've taken up flurry. Strength of earth is mostly for offense. The increased strength adds a substantial amount to your dps (a bit less than ten with my gear). I also drop mana spring to help the magic users in the group if I'm not the main healer.

Exceptions to those three are when I'm in the main tank's party, facing a mob with fear or some nasty curse, and facing hordes of mobs that like to run. For a main tank party, I replace grace of air with windfury to help the warrior with rage generation, which is more important than the benefits of increased agility. For mobs with fear and such, when you can't see them casting and hence can't earthshock them, I use grounding totem instead. For mobs that like to run, I usually frostshock them, but in many of the higher level instances, you'll encounter groups of one or two elites along with a number of non-elites. Mages and warlocks can use their AoE's on the non-elites while the tanks keep the elites busy, but as soon as they do that, the non-elites will turn on your mage, so I drop earthbind to slow them down, and magma to soften them up.

As for a shaman's role in a group, MongoJerry's pretty much covered it, but we're basically there to plug any holes the group may have. If there's no other healer or the healer is getting overwhelmed, we can take over quite well. If some mob breaks away from the tank and starts running towards the casters, then use earthshock to pull them back and then return to your main tank's target. We can last quite a while as secondary tanks via our mail armor and our own healing, and it also gives the crowd controllers some time to (re)cast their spell. If there're runners, or in case of alarm mobs (Gnomeregan, Stratholme), a shock usually can take them down. We can also provide some significant amount of AoE. Lastly, our most important role in an instance is wipe recovery, so when you see things going down the tube, back away from where the mobs are bound so that when you wipe, you can reincarnate safely.

[Treesh]

One last thing, what are people's thoughts on the two "stream" totems, healing stream and mana stream?  I usually put one or the other down when I'm grouping, but I've been wondering if it's worth it.  Would like to hear people's thoughts.
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I'll usually only throw down a healing stream totem if the fight is going to last a while. It helps the cat who generally is the most main tankish one of the three of us. Between the stoneskin totem and the healing stream totem, I usually don't have to heal the cat too much.

I generally don't put down the mana spring totem because it's usually just GG's hunter Marn running with my shaman Mogo. The mana spring just doesn't give back enough mana to use it during a fight. If it's been a long fight, I'll use it afterwards to make regen faster while I'm drinking. However, I am running down the restoration tree to get the mana tide totem to see if that's actually worth it for if/when I group with those who use more mana than I do.

[Artega]

Most groups I've been in, we've preferred our shammies to be Restoration-specced, since they're basically backup healers and wipe-prevention. Like the Druid, their power lies in their ability to fill multiple roles. Compared to Druids and Priests, their healing outright sucks. Compared to Rogues and Mages, their dps is paltry. Compared to Warriors, they can't take a strong glare from a boss.

What they CAN do, however, is provide a variety of buffs via their totems, peel adds off of the squishies more reliably (and more safely) than rogues, and prevent a wipe with Reincarnate.

If they've gone 31 into Restoration (my favorite type of Shaman, despite not having MP), Mana Tide is invaluable for long fights, both PvE and PvP. If you don't have Nature's Swiftness at level 60, you should reroll something else; the value of an instant big heal or instant chain lightning cannot be overstated. Mana Spring is useful to use whenever (akin to a pally's blessing of wisdom), especially post-wipe.

Use Windfury Totem when fighting low-Armor or medium-Armor mobs, and Flametongue Totem when fighting high-Armor mobs. Windfury Totem also does wonders for Rage generation, especially if the Warrior is a Berserker tank (like me :) )

Use Fire Nova totem when AE is needed (I prefer it to Magma Totem, since I seem to recall it being more mana efficient and it's burst damage, not DoT), and try to have Strength of Earth and Grace of Air up whenever there's a fight consisting of more than a couple mobs.

Purge mobs that usually buff themselves, and ALWAYS remember to carry Ankhs. Even though I'm a Warrior, I always carry a small number of Ankhs with me, since Shaman inexplicably forget them. I don't mean "ran out", I mean outright FORGOT them.

Basically, the role of a Shaman is to play totembot and backup healer. You could conceivably play backup tank if you were deep into Enhancement (Parry and Toughness), but a Druid would do a far better job at that.

[Treesh]

Use Fire Nova totem when AE is needed (I prefer it to Magma Totem, since I seem to recall it being more mana efficient and it's burst damage, not DoT), and try to have Strength of Earth and Grace of Air up whenever there's a fight consisting of more than a couple mobs.
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Just make sure that before you put that fire nova totem down that all the critters around have been tagged by someone otherwise they make a beeline for that totem, kill it before it can go off and then you're out the mana and haven't done any damage. Unless that behavior has been changed in this last patch, just placing a nova totem caused the critters to flock to that first if they hadn't been touched my anything yet. Very annoying behavior so I tend to use magma more since it doesn't generate the hate.

Strength of Earth and Grace of Air usage also depends upon the composition of the group. If you've got mostly magic users behind you, that isn't going to help as much as if you have a rogue, warrior, or hunter or a combination thereof. It's similar to the paladin buffs and seals - you have to choose what to use when, depending upon the situation. Flexibility is the key - the more adaptable to different situations you are as a shaman, the better off you and your group will be.

[oldmandennis]

Just make sure that before you put that fire nova totem down that all the critters around have been tagged by someone otherwise they make a beeline for that totem, kill it before it can go off and then you're out the mana and haven't done any damage.  Unless that behavior has been changed in this last patch, just placing a nova totem caused the critters to flock to that first if they hadn't been touched my anything yet.  Very annoying behavior so I tend to use magma more since it doesn't generate the hate.

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Critters go after magma totems now too.

[playingtokrush]

Just make sure that before you put that fire nova totem down that all the critters around have been tagged by someone otherwise they make a beeline for that totem, kill it before it can go off and then you're out the mana and haven't done any damage.  Unless that behavior has been changed in this last patch, just placing a nova totem caused the critters to flock to that first if they hadn't been touched my anything yet.  Very annoying behavior so I tend to use magma more since it doesn't generate the hate.
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As of the last patch, magma totem now generates hate as you would expect.

Magma totem is more mana efficient than fire nova, assuming it can run for the full duration. Practically, though, fire nova is often a better choice since AE situations frequently have the mobs killed in under 20 seconds.

[TheDragoon]

Critters go after magma totems now too.
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The same goes for Earthbind totems, in my experience. I used to always use Earthbind totems to help my Shaman run away, but now it hardly slows anything down since it hits the mob once, then the mob turns and destroys the totem before continuing after the Shaman.

I was a bit surprised and saddened when I first realized this was happening. :(

[Artega]

Just make sure that before you put that fire nova totem down that all the critters around have been tagged by someone otherwise they make a beeline for that totem[right][snapback]72264[/snapback][/right]

That's what my shouts are for :)

[Treesh]

That's what my shouts are for :)
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Just reminding the shaman to wait until they see the shouts. :) Sometimes, the timing of placing the totems can be just as important as what totem to throw down. :)

[Gurnsey]

The same goes for Earthbind totems, in my experience.  I used to always use Earthbind totems to help my Shaman run away, but now it hardly slows anything down since it hits the mob once, then the mob turns and destroys the totem before continuing after the Shaman. 

I was a bit surprised and saddened when I first realized this was happening.  :(
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For the Nove totem, we can throw down a Stoneclaw first to attract some attention. I find that I use this totem more often than I might expect in a solo/duo situation - it doesn't last all that long, but every second is damage that isn't on me. That doesn't, of course, help with the Earthbind since they are both Earth totems.

[Mavfin]

That's what my shouts are for :)
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Exactly. If I'm shouting right, he'll never notice the totem!

[Garthargh]

Its been my experience on Malygos that most high level groups only want shaman that can act as back up healers and are very good with totems. Totems can make some otherwise very difficult fights much much easier. Id also have to agree that shaman are perfect for keeping the squishy classes healed up and aggro free. As a warrior I certainly appreciate it when shaman do just that, 8 seconds can be a very long time if a taunt is resisted.

[gothmog]

If you don't have Nature's Swiftness at level 60, you should reroll something else;
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Not when looking at the high-level Shamans I've talked to. Half of them have it, half of them don't have it because they never used it/didn't find it worth it.

[Watto44]

Nature's Swiftness is one of those talents that you might not use all the time, but when you do use it, bacon is saved and a wipe can be prevented. It depends on where you're going with your toon, but a lot of people have the attitude that it's not worth spending the points to get something you're only going to use when Things Go Wrong. I'm not one of those people because, hey, bad things happen to good orcs. :D