OK, is this really an issue?

[pazuzu]

If the 'research' on violent tendencies from videogames adds up there's no need for a weapons space programme. The day aliens decide to attack us we'll have half a million teens with no stamina and bad hygiene ready to kick some extra terrestial ass!
Just give them some extacy, telling them it's a "powerup", and hopefully they'll have the energy to last through the day...

No, seriously, this is pure hogwash. Today it's the videogames, a few years back it was the action movies, before that it was the cartoons and comics and it all started with rock'n'roll.
How come nobody gets all violent over rock music or comics anymore?

[TaMeOlta]

I can't believe this propaganda was so carelessly placed on the Evil Internet where anyone could stumble across it ! :o


I think we should release armies of Trolls , Goblins and Nameless Winged Creatures of the Night to hunt and punish the publishers of these articles ! :P

[Minionman]

I can't believe this propaganda was so carelessly placed on the Evil Internet where anyone could stumble across it !  :o
I think we should release armies of Trolls , Goblins and Nameless Winged Creatures of the Night to hunt and punish the publishers of these articles !  :P
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Why waste good high level units on those who don't understand their weaknesses? Use goblin grunts, footmen, elf archers, and other basic soldiers who gain more experience. :P

[Minionman]

I like the fact that, at 7, she's not that attached to any type of screen.  But, I'd also like to find a video game that she could enjoy (in moderation, of course).  Her eye doctor even recommended it.  :P  I bought her a Spongebob XBox game for Christmas, but she won't play it.  Luckily Mr. Gris likes it.  She won't touch Tetris or Nitro Kart.  She has a friend who enjoys Diablo (the original), but she won't even give it a try.  She enjoys her "I Spy" game, but really never asks to play it.  I wonder if there are games that aren't designed to be just educational but are still playable by fairly young children (someone who can read but isn't going to be able to catch huge amounts of text flying past quickly, and who isn't going to be performing any huge feats of manual dexterity any time soon).
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What about some of the older sim games, if they work on the computer? Third and fourth grade thats what me and other people in my classes were doing, games like simtower or simearth. They go slow but still need some thinking to do well.

[Occhidiangela]

-snip-
The day aliens decide to attack us we'll have half a million teens with no stamina and bad hygiene ready to kick some extra terrestial ass!  Just give them some extacy, telling them it's a "powerup", and hopefully they'll have the energy to last through the day[right][snapback]72244[/snapback][/right]

Don't forget to first equip them all with Gauss rifles . . . :P

No, seriously, this is pure hogwash. Today it's the videogames, a few years back it was the action movies, before that it was the cartoons and comics and it all started with rock'n'roll.  How come nobody gets all violent over rock music or comics anymore?

Did you miss the long running public debate about Gangsta Rap? Your reference to rock 'n roll as a tool of evil reminds me, tangentially, of an Elton John lyric circa 1972.

"The minds of our daughters are poisoned by you
With your Communistic politics and your
Negro blues!"
(Album: Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player; Song Texas Lullaby)

Yes, the usual complaints against the entertainment industry. Let's add the hand wringing about "TV drama violence," specifically the graphic depictions in prime time TV shows. As for soft core porn, the Soaps keep getting racier and racier . . .

Sorry, I can't let this go. "extasy?"

The drug's name is based on a real word in the English language. "Ecstasy."
I wonder at its appeal to young men and women, if they bother to be educated recreational drug users . . . yeah, I know, the lack of thinking is a part of the fun . . .

The risks: (from This nice informative site) My comments in italics.

As the drug kicks in, users may experience an initial rush of nervousness, and uncertainty, a tightening of the jaw, increase heart rate, sweating, and nausea. This is sometimes known as 'coming up'.
( Coming up, like my lunch when I hear Gore Vidal speak on CSPAN? At any rate, this symptom sounds like the heavy drinker's, or peyote fan's, "after the first puke, hey, what a great time I had!")

Some users have reported a bad experience on ecstasy, including feelings of paranoia and confusion.
(Some people have reported a bad experience on April 15th, including feelings of paranoia and confusion.)

Much depends on the content of the drug and the user's state of mind at the time.
Sounds like the old LSD deal about "good trips" and "bad trips."

Ecstasy effects the body's thermostat.
(Rectal or oral? Whoops, bad caffeine, not thermometer, thermostat.)

Dancing for long periods in a hot place such as a club increases the chances of users overheating and/or dehydrating (see below for advice).
Dancing for long periods at a hot pace in an ultra-aerobics class can lead to overheating or dehydration. PS: Yes, I am aware that E has some weird effects on a body's natural coolig systems. We lost one of our sailors back in the early 90's to his body's breakdown after a weekend of raving, E, and making a series of bad decisions. That is when I first learned about E . . . :(

Taking ecstasy may leave women susceptible to cystitis and thrush. So, birds attack women more frequently when they are on E? oops, this thrush: Not a bird in the hand, nor in the bush, so to speak . . . Cystitis, an equal opportunity irritator . . .

Men report difficulties in attaining an erection or orgasm while on ecstasy.
OK, let me get this straight, though not while on E of course! :P I am mentally wrestling with why guys want to use E when they go clubbing, in search of hotties. *scratches head*

After the effects have subsided, users can feel tired and depressed for days.
After paying taxes, citizens can feel tired and depressed for days . . .

There is some debate into to the long term psychological effects of ecstasy use, including links to possible brain damage.
There is some debate regarding the long term effects of caffeine abuse, to include sanity loss . . . GET 'EM OFFA ME!

Cheers

Occhi

[kandrathe]

If we are relying on the parenting skills of others for our safety, then we are all doomed&nbsp; <_<

They only reason I don't campaign against violent games here (NZ) is because we have gun control... I haven't seen one in about fourteen years.&nbsp; Anyone here with violent tendencies needs to do more than point-and-click, which is a bit too much exercise for most that spend their days playing violent video games&nbsp; :P
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And, yet I see that gun control has done little to stop the violence. I don't want to get into a huge debate over the size of mine versus the size of yours. The US has a larger per capita violence rate, but IMHO it has little to do with video games, or access to weapons. What the crime rates here are related to directly are poverty, domestic violence (mostly by substance abusers), drug use, and gang turf wars over selling drugs.

http://www.crime.co.nz

[DeeBye]

Yes, I know, Paul Coffey and Marty McSorely were The Great One's enforcers
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Paul Coffey was not an enforcer. He was a smooth-skating offensive-minded defenseman.

I can understand some people's objections to fighting in hockey, but that won't change the fact that I personally like it.

[Occhidiangela]

Paul Coffey was not an enforcer.&nbsp; He was a smooth-skating offensive-minded defenseman.

I can understand some people's objections to fighting in hockey, but that won't change the fact that I personally like it.
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Thank you for the correction, memory is leaky. My bad on Mr Coffey, should have left the comment to Marty the Mauler.

I like the contact in hockey. The fighting detracts from the game. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree . . . but . . . don't you find it odd that I can play the same game of baseball, rules wise, at age 10 as the big leagues play (with shorter base paths) while you separate "fighting OK" hockey from "fighting not OK hockey" in the little league ranks? The duality strikes me as hypocritical and counterproductive. The youth hockey theme has it right.

I also think John McEnroe should have been thrown out of a lot more tennis tournaments than he was for his vulgar, childish displays of temper.

Occhi

[kandrathe]

You and I share the same philosophy. :)

Even when watching video's, like "Dink the Dinosaur", or "Thomas And The Magic Railroad" with my kids, I take every opportunity to point out the "bad guys" and why their behavior gets them into trouble. The problem with many kids media is that rather than take a moral stand of good versus evil, they remain luke warm and morally ambiguous. I take the opportunity to remove any doubt, and let my kids know what my opinion is and why.

I would never purchase, nor condone a "game" like GTA for children because worse than moral ambiguity, it encourages anti-social behavior as a means to "Win". When my kids have adult minds, I will let them play with whatever they like, because they will know the difference, as your husband does, between "game" and "real life" problem solving.

Should I be concerned that my son's idea of good times on the computer is building a huge Jurrasic Park, then setting loose the T-Rex? No. I like to do that too. :)

[DeeBye]

I also think John McEnroe should have been thrown out of a lot more tennis tournaments than he was for his vulgar, childish displays of temper.
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Love him or hate him, he made tennis a lot more interesting.

[pazuzu]

Occhidiangela: The ecstasy part was due to me being in a hurry. With more time on my hands I probably would have chose gatorade or something similar.
I do not endorse ecstasy in any way. It was meant as satire only :)

Don't know where the 'x' came from, again I blame my hurriness. Sort of an embarrasingly obvious mistake that I am sure will be overshadowed by the mistakes in this post... ;)

EDIT: Doh, just remembered chocolate covered cofeebeans... THAT ought to keep 'em awake!

EDIT 2: I take it Sir John is being sarcastic in the lyrics, or do I suddenly not like the guy?

Yet another EDIT that makes me seriously consider taking more time to finish my initial post from now on:
Gauss rifles sounds good, but I feel inspired by the game-controller scepter in ctrl-alt-del.

[Minionman]

Should I be concerned that my son's idea of good times on the computer is building a huge Jurrasic Park, then setting loose the T-Rex?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; I like to do that too.&nbsp; :)
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This is also true in simcity, as I made fun of earlier. Build a city, than see what all the naturla disaster do. some of the later natural disasters are pretty cool.

[Occhidiangela]

Love him or hate him, he made tennis a lot more interesting.
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Interesting?

He tried to turn a sport into a spectacle in the "it's all about me" category. There is a difference between a foot race between athletes, and a bunch of streakers running by. His exploits took the former and corrupted it into the latter far too often. (I say this even though I saw and immensely enjoyed a whole bunch of his finals matches with Borg at Wimbeldon and the US Open. Played much tennis in my day . . . )

A brilliant player, one of the finest wooden racket virtuosos I ever saw, I don't think he ever understood, until late in his career, what being a professional meant . . . even with a class act like Arthur Ashe to teach him during Davis Cup years. His delayed maturity over time eventually taught him something . . . after he had already dropped the steaming turd into the Tennis' Punch Bowl.
"Tennis" let him get away with it. :angry: Why? The spectacle created buzz, even as it stained the sport. I stopped watching and caring about one of my favorite sports, tennis, a LONG time ago.

Occhi

[Guest]

Fencing gear/lessons can be a good investment.

An atheletic kid can get a scholership out of it sometimes. There arent many people fencing so the compitition isnt as bad.
But if hes 12 he ought to start lessons now. It would have been better at 8. Although already having some martial arts exp helps a lot.

I learned to fence in colllege and loved it. I wish I had been exposed to it when I was younger.

[Griselda]

Should I be concerned that my son's idea of good times on the computer is building a huge Jurrasic Park, then setting loose the T-Rex? No. I like to do that too.

I never saved any of the people in Choplifter, and I was mean to the people of Populous. :blush:

Actually, though, one of the reasons why I like Miyazaki's movies so much is that there doesn't tend to be a clearcut good and evil side. There's a lot of people with different interests and perspectives (some of whom might be selfish, or hurtful to others, but never evil in the Disney sense of the word). That, and it's fun to hear Mark Hamil trying to take over the world. ;) In the real world, I think people are very rarely in a position where there's a clear-cut "good" and "evil" choice to make. Things just aren't that simple.

[Occhidiangela]

I never saved any of the people in Choplifter, and I was mean to the people of Populous.&nbsp; :blush:

Actually, though, one of the reasons why I like Miyazaki's movies so much is that there doesn't tend to be a clearcut good and evil side.&nbsp; There's a lot of people with different interests and perspectives (some of whom might be selfish, or hurtful to others, but never evil in the Disney sense of the word).&nbsp; That, and it's fun to hear Mark Hamil trying to take over the world. ;)&nbsp; In the real world, I think people are very rarely in a position where there's a clear-cut "good" and "evil" choice to make.&nbsp; Things just aren't that simple.
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Understanding clear cut points of good and evil provide one with bounding, points of departure if you will, to come to a solution set to non academic problems. They do not as such provide guaranteed cut and paste solutions, which is what far too many people seek.

Who was it that said "most complex problems have very simple wrong solutions."

Occhi

[LavCat]

The older one likes WoW, the younger is more into GTA.

[Hammerskjold]

>I would never purchase, nor condone a "game" like GTA for children because worse than moral ambiguity, it encourages anti-social behavior as a means to "Win".

I definitely agree with you on the first part, for the same reason I wouldn't let kids watch movies like 'Goodfellas' and 'Boyz in the Hood'. I do however disagree with the notion that GTA encourages bad behaviour as a means to win. I asked my friend if I can try out GTA3 and GTA: Vice City on his computer, to see what all the hullabaloo is all about. (Yeah it's not the recent San Andreas, but I just wanted to get the gist of it.)

I asked him if it's as violent and 'bad' as some people are saying. He said it's definitely violent, but bad as in only psychopaths would enjoy the game, hell no. It's possible to kill cops, but it's not exactly a cake walk to do so. It's also possible to do something other than just random violence, a lot of players enjoy the freedom of just roaming around.

So I tried it out, fired up a new character, and here is a brief description of my virtual carnage.

- Saw a fight going on between a security guard and some dude. The guard went down and dropped his pistol.

- I picked up the pistol, did a little impromptu target shooting in the street.

- Some stray shots apparently angered some of the people, because they came over to try to take me down.

- After emptying the pistol and killing some more people, I picked up a police baton. At this point sirens and cops seem to emerge. Who called 911?

- After getting a shotgun off a dead officer, the heat seems to really be on me, now SWAT teams are coming out, and I'm running for dear life to find a car to jack.

- Now I'm in some damaged sedan weaving in and out of traffic trying to avoid pursuit, but the car is handling badly due to all those pedestrian and other obstacles I've ran over. Just as I thought I was going to lose them near a bridge, I steered left when I should've steered right and I wound up on the river beneath. A watery grave with police sirens serenading my brief and violent end to my digital life.

Total time: approx. 14 minutes.

Now if the game truly rewarded all my random violence, I would've expected maybe a cutscene, or an advancement in the general storyline. But instead I got a watery grave. And in this virtual world, 'justice' was meted out to my nooblar behind in 14 minutes. Police showed up in minutes at the scene of my crime. In the real world, in my neighbourhood I have a better chance of getting a pizza delivered under 30 minutes, than having police show up when I call them.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the GTA series is violent, and definitely not for kids. But to dismiss them because some people think it's morally ambiguous. I don't believe that to be true.

[teenagedeathboy]

If a kid is allowed to play whatever video game he wants, without any parental guiding, then sure; they might get the oppression that using a hooker then killing her to get your money back is OK. But seriously, preventing kids from playing video games is for parents who are too lazy to sit down and talk with their kids.

By banning a video game, this means that the parents don't have to actually explain to their children what is right and what is wrong. Instead of actually taking time getting to know their kid, they just rant against violence in (media form X) so that they don't have to.

[whyBish]

http://www.crime.co.nz

Sorry, but that link is just funny. After you start scrolling you see that most of the stuff linked is decades old.

Minnie Dean? My grandmother told ghost stories about her :huh:

Try something like:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

showing US has 4x Canada or NZ rate (although note the disclaimer at top and low granularity)

Or even:
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/cr..._fir_cap&int=50
(With worse granularity)

where Canada and NZ don't even register...

Can't find any decent stats on guns per capita except:
http://ncinfo.iog.unc.edu/pubs/electronicv...00/article1.pdf
US Rate of homicide with firearms 30x NZs rate
US Percentage of households with handguns 14x NZ rate