A new computer for moi

[TaiDaishar]

Well, not exactly me, but my brother wishes to buy a new computer.

His criteria is something that he won't have to change so soon yet asks it won't cost above 950USD and the target of said computer would be purely for gaming.

Now, due to my complete and utter luck of hardware I come to you, kind lurkers, to please help me help my brother in picking a good mechine, we're looking through Tom's Hardware Guide but some more help from some more knowledgeable people would be much appreciated!

[Nystul]

Is this going to be a do-it-yourself job, or just collecting feature ideas to buy one already built? Also, is $950 U.S. including the cost of monitor and speakers? I suppose it is.

In any case, a few more good general hardware sites are http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.sharkyextreme.com

For a gaming system, don't skimp too much on the graphics card (especially for FPS games, but these days any big budget game is fancy 3D). And don't settle for less than 512 MB of system RAM (if you can fit 1GB of RAM in the budget, it may be worth it, especially for RPG/MMOG games). If it's a do-it-yourself system, make sure you understand the hardware compatibility issues.

[Concillian]

For specific advice I need to know what needs to be included for 950. Also I am assuming 'build it yourself'

Generally I would go for a PCI-e board if you're replacing everything, and I would go with A64s if for no other reason than the combo of CPU/motherboard combo seems to be a little cheaper than Intel options, but it's not a huge difference in price even.

If I assume you will use your existing OS, monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse then I'd put together something like this:

- I have the nForce3/Socket 754 version of this board: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-152-049&depa=1
And I assume the nForce4 version is fine. Something with an nForce4 Ultra would be my recommentation
- A64 3000+ CPU (Socket 939) will run around $150 or so. Get the retail version, as the stock HSF is perfectly adequate, and isn't very loud.
- 1 gig of value memory is perfectly good for all but the most extreme systems, and is coming down in price. This stuff is currently on sale for $80 a gig after $10 rebate and it's what I have in my computer (only I paid $120 a after rebate 6 months ago): http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-146-299&depa=1

I avoid Kingmax memory. 3/5 sticks I have purchased have had some fault. They all worked but 3/5 didn't work totally at rated specs (one was CAS 3 instead of the advertised CAS 2.5 and one pair sold as a pair only worked in single channel, not dual channel) And I had no luck getting ahold of Kingmax. Most other brands I haven't had issue with Mushkin will answer the phone, and my experience with OCZ customer service is great, but they have priced themselves out of any market segment I'm in.

- Add in your basic 80-120-160 gig hard drive depending on your needs will run another $70-90 or so. Personally I'd buy a Seagate 160 (but I may be biased considering they are my employer.)
- Your basic DVD reader/CDwriter is around $50, my personal preference is Lite-on.
- Case and power supply is subjective, factor in ~$100 The only caveat on power supply is to have plenty of headroom on the 12v rail look for at least 15A and 20A+ is preferred, almost nothing else really matters in terms of overall wattage, all the power hungry components use the 12v rail (CPU, Video card, motherboard)

This leaves you with video card and ~$300 - 350 left.

At this point the choice is between the 6600 GT for around $200 or the x800XL for around $300. The x800XL is enough horsepower to run WoW at 1600x1200 with all options enabled. The 6600GT will probably run a little short of that. The 6600GT is a better value but the x800XL isn't a great value for it's price point and a more powerful card.

If you prefer an Intel solution I'd probably go with the 520 (2.8 GHz) and a board with an i915P chipset like this http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-123-224&depa=0

Don't be too wary of processor performance charts that always show A64s ahead or show higher clocked CPUs 20% faster, note that they are almost always at very low resolution and frame rates well above what is perceptible by a person, in many cases even above the refresh rate of the monitor. Starting with either of these platforms (S939 or LGA775) there should be a clear and cheap upgrade path available when (or even if) a more powerful processor becomes important. But I doubt it will for a while. Even with my x800 pro (in between the 6600GT and x800XL, were the x800XL out when I bought my card it is what I would have bought) I can clock my A64 at stock 1800 MHz or overclock up to 2300 MHz and notice zero difference when playing games.

My personal favorites for online shopping are:
www.newegg.com
www.mwave.com
and because I live in CA and it's about the only decent store that's not in CA (tax savings)
www.monarchcomputer.com

[Yrrek]

Well, not exactly me, but my brother wishes to buy a new computer.

His criteria is something that he won't have to change so soon yet asks it won't cost above 950USD and the target of said computer would be purely for gaming.

Now, due to my complete and utter luck of hardware I come to you, kind lurkers, to please help me help my brother in picking a good mechine, we're looking through Tom's Hardware Guide but some more help from some more knowledgeable people would be much appreciated!
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I have one priced up, for around $350. Add in a case, psu, vid card, monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers, $700 tops. PM or email me for more info.

[DeeBye]

- Case and power supply is subjective, factor in ~$100  The only caveat on power supply is to have plenty of headroom on the 12v rail look for at least 15A and 20A+ is preferred, almost nothing else really matters in terms of overall wattage, all the power hungry components use the 12v rail (CPU, Video card, motherboard)
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I'll go ahead and suggest a Antec SLK3700 ($85.49) for a case. Antec makes great power supplies/cases, and this one is a really great value.

Please note that Antec boosted the specs for the +12v rail on their entire line of power supplies awhile back, and newegg hasn't yet updated all of the images.

This is the correct and updated specs of the power supply for the Antec SLK3700. (21A on the +12v rail)

It also looks pretty good without being overly bling-bling.

[TaiDaishar]

I thank you all for the help but please note one thing: I'm a hardware dimwit, I have no idea what you just said DeeBye!

Yrrek: Thanks for the offer but I doubt my brother would be willing to risk it, we can also get the parts via my father that can buy them much cheaper than usual.

And to everyone else who wandered: We're planning on buying parts and simply assemble that ourselves.

[Griselda]

I thank you all for the help but please note one thing: I'm a hardware dimwit, I have no idea what you just said DeeBye!

Yrrek: Thanks for the offer but I doubt my brother would be willing to risk it, we can also get the parts via my father that can buy them much cheaper than usual.

And to everyone else who wandered: We're planning on buying parts and simply assemble that ourselves.
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Well, if you're a "hardware dimwit", and you have some time, your first step is probably to look through the guides posted without worrying about which makes and models you're wanting to buy- just to get a feel for the type of hardware you're going to be working with. Of course, nothing helps you learn more about hardware than seeing how it fits together inside your computer, but I do hope that you have somebody to help you build it that has some experience.

Also, please do tell us how much of a computer he will be needing. Is he starting from scratch, and needing everything, like his mouse, monitor, and keyboard, or is he replacing an older computer? In that case, you might be able to save not only the monitor, but also things like the hard drive and CD/DVD drive. While both of those things might not be as nice as what's available on newer computers, the ones he currently has might be enough to be functional for at least a little while. That would allow you to put more of your budget towards a nicer graphics card, or bump the processor up a bit. Then, you can replace the hard drive and such later on, without having to spring for an entire new computer.

There's no point in even looking at specific hardware until you know what specific components you will need, because that's going to have a huge impact on what you can afford.

[TaiDaishar]

Well, what he/we need is just a processor, a new graphics card, the RAM is still useable but he might decide to get more and the hard drive is quite small (less than 20GB) so it might be that he'll buy another one.

The monitor is questionable as it is a little blurry for some reason (anyone know of a way of fixing such a thing?) but still working.

Sound card, keyboard and mouse are entirely unnecessary as they're working quite well.

[DeeBye]

The monitor is questionable as it is a little blurry for some reason (anyone know of a way of fixing such a thing?) but still working.
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CRT monitors will blur and darken over time. Aside from cranking up the brightness and contrast, there isn't anything you can do about it.

[HowGozit]

Well, what he/we need is just a processor, a new graphics card, the RAM is still useable but he might decide to get more and the hard drive is quite small (less than 20GB) so it might be that he'll buy another one.

The monitor is questionable as it is a little blurry for some reason (anyone know of a way of fixing such a thing?) but still working.

Sound card, keyboard and mouse are entirely unnecessary as they're working quite well.
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You will need a new motherboard and CPU - not just a CPU. I incline towards Athlons myself - but P4's are also fine. Go with NVidia or VIA chipsets with Athlon's or use Intel with P4's. PCI Express will hand you a bit of longevity with video, as it seems to be the way of the future with manufacturers - it is also a wee bit cheaper and faster than AGP boards.

Replace the screen - new CRT's are pretty cheap in 17" and fair in 19". LCD's are dearer and you need to watch the specs a bit - you want fast response (=$).

And new 80GB drives are cheap (and about the smallest that you can buy - I'd get one instead of keeping a 20GB. (SATA 120GB would be better still).

Any reasonably new motherboard will have inbuilt sound - and I suspect that you will need new RAM as your old RAM is probably too slow (unless you bought it recently).

Antec cases are good - and well worth buying - this way you get a new and very stable power supply as well.

Dunno about prices in the US - looks like lots of good advice up there. But you might want to spend a morning in one of the large discount computer stores you have over there. That way you can read the outside of boxes and get choice. (I buy at open air computer markets for the same reason - but I know my gear - I am sorta in the trade). :P

HowGozit

[SetBuilder]

I'd suggest to get 1GB+ of RAM. A computer with say 2GB of ram and a 128MB FX5200 vid card (crap) will outperform the computer with 512MB RAM and a 256MB Vid card (6800). Course, the one with the 6800 would look more visually appealing with a 6800, as the higher bit rate gives much more details. If you want it, have a linkkie to some pc3200 DDR, 2x1GB sticks (so a couple gig, I have four and can verify quality) for $249.

[Munkay]

I'd suggest to get 1GB+ of RAM. A computer with say 2GB of ram and a 128MB FX5200 vid card (crap) will outperform the computer with 512MB RAM and a 256MB Vid card (6800). Course, the one with the 6800 would look more visually appealing with a 6800, as the higher bit rate gives much more details. If you want it, have a linkkie to some pc3200 DDR, 2x1GB sticks (so a couple gig, I have four and can verify quality) for $249.
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I'm not a computer expert, but wouldn't it make sense to leave the upgradable parts till you have time to upgrade them?

I would logically go the other route, especially if I was planning on upgrading things as needed (which has been expressed by the original poster a number of times). The graphics card would have to be scraped to be upgraded. The ram... well, plan ahead for an upgrade, but buy whats in your budget first.

That way when more money comes in your left with a better system. Rather than staring down another investment in an expensive graphics card.

Granted, I don't know much about computer upgrading anymore (I mainly use a laptop these days), but its hard to reason that 6 months from now it'd be better to have 2 gigs of ram and 128 meg graphics card with no where to go but replace the graphics card I just bought, than to have the space to upgrade with more ram.

Cheers,

Munk

[SetBuilder]

I'm not a computer expert, but wouldn't it make sense to leave the upgradable parts till you have time to upgrade them?

I would logically go the other route, especially if I was planning on upgrading things as needed (which has been expressed by the original poster a number of times).  The graphics card would have to be scraped to be upgraded.  The ram... well, plan ahead for an upgrade, but buy whats in your budget first.

That way when more money comes in your left with a better system.  Rather than staring down another investment in an expensive graphics card.

Granted, I don't know much about computer upgrading anymore (I mainly use a laptop these days), but its hard to reason that 6 months from now it'd be better to have 2 gigs of ram and 128 meg graphics card with no where to go but replace the graphics card I just bought, than to have the space to upgrade with more ram.

Cheers,

Munk
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RAM is usually more expensive to upgrade than video cards. Also, the more RAM you have, the longer before you MUST upgrade. Also, the video card that costs $400 today will cost maybe $100 in 8 months to a year, while the RAM won't go down by more than 10-15%. In a way though, you are correct, just not between those two parts.

[Yrrek]

RAM is usually more expensive to upgrade than video cards. Also, the more RAM you have, the longer before you MUST upgrade. Also, the video card that costs $400 today will cost maybe $100 in 8 months to a year, while the RAM won't go down by more than 10-15%. In a way though, you are correct, just not between those two parts.
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I can't imagine anyone needing more than 1GB of RAM for a while. I run games like Doom3 and FarCry on my system with ease and I have 1GB. The only thing I can think of would be a server.

Now, I also just dumped $500 on a video card. ATI Radeon X800 XT. I won't be upgrading that for a good while.

I agree with Munkay and go with the video card first, RAM later.

[SetBuilder]

I can't imagine anyone needing more than 1GB of RAM for a while. I run games like Doom3 and FarCry on my system with ease and I have 1GB. The only thing I can think of would be a server.

Now, I also just dumped $500 on a video card. ATI Radeon X800 XT. I won't be upgrading that for a good while.

I agree with Munkay and go with the video card first, RAM later.
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Again, when you have a video card like that, you probably don't need so much RAM. On a side note though, I can run Doom 3, Halo 2, Diablo 2, Fallout 2, Spellforce, and a couple of pr0n vids all at once. :D

Seriously though, when you have that much RAM, it'll run about as smooth with a far inferior vid card, just won't look quite so pretty. On the other hand, you will DEFINATELY need 4GB RAM at some point. In fact, in the average session, WinXP has about 1.2GB worth of run files it uses. During bootup, it takes my 4GB desktop about 2 seconds to load XP, and it loads entire operating system into RAM. At that point, all general operating processes are fast, as they are never pulled from HDD. Huge performance boost. Also, games like UT2004... Well, those games also have huge amounts of run files, as well as sounds, textures, etc. that needs to be running. Not all of it can be loaded into the vid card (and some isn't meant to be), and if you can load the entire game + the entire operating system into your RAM... Well, let's just say that about the only way to get your computer faster is just incrementally, by getting slightly faster clock speeds on vid cards, and slightly faster proc speeds, neither of which really will make any difference.

I've found that CGI-Editors' vid cards work better though, Such as the 3D Labs Realizm 800. Course, they cost more than this has a budge for.

[jahcs]

My personal experience, and I'm no expert, is that the video card is the biggest bottleneck when it comes to trying to run newer games. Once system RAM gets over 512MB (again, 1GB is recommended) the video card seems to be what matters.

[SetBuilder]

My personal experience, and I'm no expert, is that the video card is the biggest bottleneck when it comes to trying to run newer games.  Once system RAM gets over 512MB (again, 1GB is recommended) the video card seems to be what matters.
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Don't know what to tell you, besides that I have 5 computers, and The Beast (the biggest one) goes faster than all the others for all games whether I put it's 512MB vid card or a 64MB card. Doesn't really matter.

What makes more difference is the bit rate of the card.