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Found an interesting thread on official forums stating that a Warrior with alternate Spirit gear could actually regen FASTER than eating food...I found it pretty hard to believe, even with his seemingly accurate numbers. I thought I'd get a second opinion here. ^_^
Basically looking for the formula for Spirit regen, can't find it on the official site (maybe I'm not looking hard enough?) Anyone happen to know what it is?
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Cyath,Apr 5 2005, 04:11 PM Wrote:Found an interesting thread on official forums stating that a Warrior with alternate Spirit gear could actually regen FASTER than eating food...I found it pretty hard to believe, even with his seemingly accurate numbers. I thought I'd get a second opinion here. ^_^
Basically looking for the formula for Spirit regen, can't find it on the official site (maybe I'm not looking hard enough?) Anyone happen to know what it is?
[right][snapback]73090[/snapback][/right] Since I mostly visit the Priest forum on the main site, and they mostly care about mana, I don't know. For mana it's approximately 3 Spirit/1 mana per tick. (I've heard this many times and it sounds pretty accurate, and looks like it too) However, on my priest and druid mana regenerates faster than health. So I don't know.
However food doesn't heal *that* fast either...If you got a lot of SPI gear then you could save a fortune on food, combining large Spirit with food, so using lower level food!
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The forumla for priests is :
mana regen/tick = (spirit/4)+13
A tick is every two seconds, and is serverside, not clientside.
For other caster classes, including mages, shaman, and paladins (I believe):
mana regen/tick = (spirit/4)+x
For druids:
mana regen/tick = (spirit/5)+x
I believe health regen is around spirit/10 or spirit/9 plus a constant. Not really sure.
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Hmm, seems like it's a fluctuating stat for most classes. I'll try digging up more info on it, seems like health and mana regen A LOT differently...
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04-06-2005, 02:05 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2005, 02:06 AM by Concillian.)
Cyath,Apr 5 2005, 06:43 PM Wrote:Hmm, seems like it's a fluctuating stat for most classes. I'll try digging up more info on it, seems like health and mana regen A LOT differently...
[right][snapback]73116[/snapback][/right]
As someone who plays a priest, warrior, warlock and rogue, I can definitely confirm that health regen is way different for the different classes. Rogues and warriors regenerate health much faster than caster classes.
I'll try to document what the tick mod is telling me on my regen when I get a chance.
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For a Druid, mana regen is about double health regen.
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Cyath,Apr 5 2005, 08:43 PM Wrote:Hmm, seems like it's a fluctuating stat for most classes. I'll try digging up more info on it, seems like health and mana regen A LOT differently...
[right][snapback]73116[/snapback][/right] I have also noticed that, at least with my mage, sitting raises the health regen rate but does not change the mana regen rate.
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russ,Apr 6 2005, 09:33 PM Wrote:For druids:
mana regen/tick = (spirit/5)+x
I did some testing (20 samples each of 13 data points - rushed, but the regression was very clean) and X = 15, at least up through 299 spirit. I can't speak for 300+ or the legendary 'diminishing returns' or softcap.
Based on the data, though, I'd say people who insist there are diminishing returns are confusing total spirit/mana and the effects of additional spirit on regen.
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Zarathustra,Apr 5 2005, 08:24 PM Wrote:For a Druid, mana regen is about double health regen.
[right][snapback]73119[/snapback][/right] This makes sense. For a while I had twice as much mana as health and the bars moved at the same speed. Does the formula change when you're in Cat or Bear? On one hand you'd think it would, but since you still gain mana in forms I'm not so sure.
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Gregorius,Apr 8 2005, 05:31 PM Wrote:This makes sense. For a while I had twice as much mana as health and the bars moved at the same speed. Does the formula change when you're in Cat or Bear? On one hand you'd think it would, but since you still gain mana in forms I'm not so sure.
[right][snapback]73395[/snapback][/right] Nope, regen stays the same, which is fairly interesting of a design decision.
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Concillian,Apr 5 2005, 09:05 PM Wrote:As someone who plays a priest, warrior, warlock and rogue, I can definitely confirm that health regen is way different for the different classes. Rogues and warriors regenerate health much faster than caster classes.
I'll try to document what the tick mod is telling me on my regen when I get a chance.
[right][snapback]73117[/snapback][/right]
My level 26 Warrior with 30 Spirit regens HP faster than my level 60 Priest with 270 Spirit. So I'd say it's definitely class dependent.
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Caline,Apr 8 2005, 08:47 AM Wrote:I did some testing (20 samples each of 13 data points - rushed, but the regression was very clean) and X = 15, at least up through 299 spirit. I can't speak for 300+ or the legendary 'diminishing returns' or softcap.
Based on the data, though, I'd say people who insist there are diminishing returns are confusing total spirit/mana and the effects of additional spirit on regen.
[right][snapback]73383[/snapback][/right]
*revives ancient thread*
I'm at the point where a "soft cap" on spirit is potentially a consideration. My priest right now has about 300 int and 200 spirit, and I am considering shifting that balance.
Are there diminishing returns on mana regen? These formulae still accurate?
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Cyath,Apr 5 2005, 06:11 PM Wrote:Found an interesting thread on official forums stating that a Warrior with alternate Spirit gear could actually regen FASTER than eating food...I found it pretty hard to believe, even with his seemingly accurate numbers. I thought I'd get a second opinion here. ^_^
Basically looking for the formula for Spirit regen, can't find it on the official site (maybe I'm not looking hard enough?) Anyone happen to know what it is?
[right][snapback]73090[/snapback][/right]
We've got an experimental high-Spirit Troll Warrior on our realm. He's still missing some key items (including Plate of the Shaman King, which is worth a lovely 29 SPI), but I think it was determined his in-combat regeneration rate is something like 15 HP/tick, not counting various regen trinkets like Lifestone. We're expecting to be able to bring it up to something around 20-25 HP/tick through the use of Spirit enchants (bracers, shield, etc.) Obviously, this would make his out-of-combat regen rates 165 HP/tick and 220-275 HP/tick, respectively.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
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russ,Apr 5 2005, 04:25 PM Wrote:The forumla for priests is :
mana regen/tick = (spirit/4)+13
A tick is every two seconds, and is serverside, not clientside.
For other caster classes, including mages, shaman, and paladins (I believe):
mana regen/tick = (spirit/4)+x
For druids:
mana regen/tick = (spirit/5)+x
I believe health regen is around spirit/10 or spirit/9 plus a constant. Not really sure.
[right][snapback]73112[/snapback][/right]
The easiest way to remember this is that one Spirit @ 2 min (of not casting) = 1 Int, for casters except Druids. (Druids are slightly worse.) Comes out to 1/8 of mana per spirit per second.
Some talents give 15% mana regen while casting.
...
So I'd really like to chain cast indefinitely. I'm shooting for 100 mana regen per second, while casting, and I have this awesome talent for 15% regen ... how much spirit do I need?
100 = Spirit * 15/100 * 1/8
Spirit = 100 * 100 * 8 / 15
Spirit = 5333
Okay, I'm going to make an awesome Mage build with 5333 Spirit who can cast forever. I'm only going to need to find 177 +30 Spi items to put on my body someplace. Shouldn't be too hard.
With my Priest, I have the awesome +35 Spirit buff, so I only need to find and put on about 176 +30 Spi items.
Aww ... I'm totally exaggerating here ... I'd still be pretty powerful with 50 mana regen/sec during casting. Besides, I have >50 base Spirit. So really I only need about 80 +30 Spi items. If I find them, and Blizzard adds about 65 more slots on my body, I'll be all set.
Summary:
As a guesstimate, 80 mega-Spirit (+30) items would allow me to effectively double my mana pool while casting.
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TheWesson,Oct 4 2005, 02:14 PM Wrote:With my Priest, I have the awesome +35 Spirit buff, so I only need to find and put on about 176 +30 Spi items.
Summary:
As a guesstimate, 80 mega-Spirit (+30) items would allow me to effectively double my mana pool while casting.
[right][snapback]91050[/snapback][/right]
Hehe I revived this thread to ask a new question, I should have just made a new thread.
Is there a soft cap (i.e. diminishing returns) on spirit? There were rumors of such things, and I'm close to the level where if there was such a thing it would make a difference.
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vor_lord,Oct 4 2005, 05:09 PM Wrote:Is there a soft cap (i.e. diminishing returns) on spirit? There were rumors of such things, and I'm close to the level where if there was such a thing it would make a difference.
[right][snapback]91060[/snapback][/right]
No cap.
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I have a priest with 431 Spirit at this point. I can drive that up to 453 with food buffs (/mourn Smoked Bass, Priests don't need Grilled Squid). I can confirm that mana regen remains at Spirit / 4 + 13.
Additionally, in long boss fights like in MC, Spirit >> Intellect.
Take, for example, a 5min boss fight. Additionally assume casting for half the fight.
150 secs = 75 ticks
75 ticks * 100 Spirit = 75 * 25 mana = 1875 mana = 125 Int (assuming a lack of diminishing returns).
The 'casting for half the fight' is a bit absurd, as outlined:
Cast once per 5 seconds for half the fight (minimum required to fill that space), cast only a 400 mana heal.
150 secs / 5 secs = 30 casts
30 casts * 400 mana = 12000 mana
Obviously no caster has 12000 mana.
As such, for a 5min boss fight casting half the time as cheaply as possible with 12000ish mana, 100 Spirit = 125 Int.
For all more realistic fights, Spirit is even better. Obviously a balance is necessary, but I can confirm that with care a Spirit build Priest can cast dramatically longer than any other healer, especially with the 15% mana regen while casting talents.
-kersh
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Dunno, Ace has hit 10k mana. :whistling:
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kershner,Oct 6 2005, 01:20 PM Wrote:...
For all more realistic fights, Spirit is even better. Obviously a balance is necessary, but I can confirm that with care a Spirit build Priest can cast dramatically longer than any other healer, especially with the 15% mana regen while casting talents.
-kersh
Dehmien | 60 Priest | Stonemaul
[right][snapback]91259[/snapback][/right]
<goggle> I'm following you, right up to the last part .... "For all more realistic fights, Spirit is even better" == you mean all your more realistic fights last more than 5 minutes?!?
you are also tilting the scales in your argument a bit by supposing a low mana burn rate.
er anyhow if I didn't already say it, I would like to point out that even though Spirit is pretty weak, it is most important just when mana is needed - that is, in long fights.
is there some rule here, or at least a rule of thumb: "If you have enough Int to last 2 minutes at a normal casting rate, then it's better to improve Spirit further rather than Int further."
anyhow my priest is working to get 15% regen and the Spirit buff in Discipline. I like the idea of spirit. I just want to be rewarded more for liking it. At my level, where a long fight is a minute, and I don't have super Int already, it's a crappy stat and Int is much preferred.
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10-09-2005, 01:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2005, 08:13 AM by oldmandennis.)
TheWesson,Oct 7 2005, 04:08 PM Wrote:<goggle> I'm following you, right up to the last part .... "For all more realistic fights, Spirit is even better" == you mean all your more realistic fights last more than 5 minutes?!?
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Err yes, unless you are with a pro leet crew, in which case you dont have to worry about optimising, most MC fights last atleast 5 min.
Edit: I mean the boss fights
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