Optimum 8 Player Configuration

[Bolty]

A few weeks back I had complained to Tal that I wished I had rolled a Human for my level 60 Priest, not a Night Elf, because the racial bonuses for Humans appear to be quite superior. That got me to start thinking about race/class choices more thoroughly. Given my love of alts and my boredom of playing level 60's - I enjoy leveling up more than being capped, I give no real qualms about restarting a Priest and leveling her up again. But what about other chars?

While none of the racial abilities are real game breakers, barring Will of the Forsaken for the Horde, the fact is that some classes would do best to choose one race over another.

Come to think of it, what would be the "best" configuration of characters possible, given these constraints:

1) All classes for the Alliance must be represented: Priest, Mage, Warlock, Paladin, Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Druid.
2) Eight characters would be created, one per class.
3) No repeats of race or gender are allowed - so there must be two characters of each race, one of each gender per race.

This would form my "army" of eight Alliance characters and allow me to have the optimum choices possible given the above constraints. This gives variety of play, too, which is a bonus. Even if it were possible, playing 8 Gnomes or 8 Humans would start to bore the heck of of anyone, even me, who secretly longs for Gnome Priests...

So what are the racial bonuses for the Alliance? Let's review them, shall we? :)

NIGHT ELF
Shadowmeld - active: Activate while immobile and out of combat to enter stealth mode - lasts until canceled - no cooldown
Quickness - passive: Dodge chance increased by 1%
Wisp Spirit - passive: Become a wisp when dead with movement speed increase of 50% (25% faster than normal ghost)
Nature Resistance - passive: All Night Elves get +10 Nature Resistance

DWARF
Stoneform - active: While active, grants immunity to Bleed, Poison, and Disease effects. In addition, Armor increases by 5% and speed reduced to 70% of normal. Lasts 20 sec. - 3 min cooldown Gun Specialization - passive: Dwarves get +5 to Gun Skill
Frost Resistance - passive: All Dwarves get +10 Cold Resistance
Treasure Finding - passive: Activate to see treasure chests on mini map - lasts until canceled - no cooldown

HUMAN
Perception - active: Activate to increase stealth detection radius by 10 yards - lasts 20 sec - 3 min cooldown
The Human Spirit - passive: Increase Spirit by 5%
Diplomacy - passive: 10% bonus to faction point gain
Sword Specialization - passive: Humans get +5 to Sword skill
Mace Specialization - passive: Humans get +5 to Mace skill

GNOME
Escape Artist - active: Activate to break out of a Root or Snare effect - 1.5 sec cast - 1 min cooldown
Expansive Mind - passive: Increase Intelligence by 5%
Arcane Resistance - passive: All Gnomes get +10 Arcane Resistance
Technologist - passive: 15 skill bonus to Engineering


Then, an added twist: what about tradeskills? What tradeskill combinations would be optimum for such a group as well? The possibilities are endless for 8 characters. Tradeskills (as I see it) fall under five distinct groupings:

a) Herbalism/Alchemy
b) Tailoring/Enchanting
c) Mining/Engineering
d) Mining/Blacksmithing
e) Skinning/Leatherworking

Add to that the fact that there are specializations of Blacksmithing and Leatherworking at high levels, so you could have more than one Blacksmith and Leatherworker and go down different paths. What race/class/tradeskill combinations make the most sense? I figured on having one Herbalist/Alchemist, one Tailor/Enchanter, and then two of each of the remaining tradeskill combos (due to specialization and the fact that only Engineers can use most Engineering items).


Here is the configuration I came up with. What do you think of it? I will list them by class, and why I chose the race to go with it. Gender is swappable, of course, and would be a matter of preference.

1) Druid - Night Elf
Explanation: I start with the Druid because it's the easiest. Only Night Elves can be Druids. Done deal. All this means is that a Night Elf spot is automatically assigned, leaving just one to decide on.
Tradeskills: Skinning/Leatherworking for the Leather and Mail later on.

2) Rogue - Night Elf
Explanation: I selected Night Elf for the Rogue. This is due to Shadowmeld which provides a boost to stealth when in stealth mode, and the 1% chance to dodge bonus. Rogues love dodging, and this seems to fit in the best compared to the other races.
Tradeskills: Skinning/Leatherworking, since Rogues are major Leather wearers.

3) Warrior - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for ranged attacks and the situationally awesome Stoneform provide useful bonuses for a tanking Warrior.
Tradeskills: Mining/Blacksmithing, since Warriors are major platemail wearers.

4) Hunter - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for teh winxorz! I can't see that losing to any of the other race bonuses in the Hunter's case. This was more of a "fill in the blank" combination since the Hunter doesn't get much direct use out of any race's bonuses except this one.
Tradeskills: Mining/Engineering, because crafting your own shot and guns is fun to do.

5) Paladin - Human
Explanation: The sword and mace specializations are sweet, and although the 5% bonus to spirit isn't so useful on a Paladin, it's more useful to this class than a Warrior. Only Dwarves and Humans can be Paladins, and Paladins don't need Stoneform that much when they have Purify. The Purify thing is the clincher that moves the Paladin to Human and the Warrior to Dwarf.
Tradeskills: Mining/Blacksmithing, since Paladins are major platemail wearers.

6) Priest - Human
Explanation: 5% spirit boost, aww yeah. I love Insane Mana Regen.™ Mace specialization doesn't hurt, either, for when the Priest is using one over a staff. The Human Priest special spells with Desperate Prayer are more useful than the Night Elf Priest Starshards attack spell (which I have found with my level 60 Night Elf Priest to be no more useful than a Smite or Mind Blast, it just looks prettier) and Elune's Grace, which lowers ranged physical attack damage a bit.
Tradeskills: Hebalism/Alchemy, because somebody's gotta do it.

7) Mage - Gnome
Explanation: Um, 5% Intelligence bonus. I believe that's a "Nuff said."
Tradeskills: Mining/Engineering, because the passive Engineering bonus should be taken advantage of.

8) Warlock - Gnome
Explanation: 5% Intelligence bonus, yes, but also Escape Artist. Warlocks lack an "escape" skill and this can help a little bit if they are snared. While Mages can Blink/Frost Nova and Priest can Psychic Scream if they're in trouble, a Warlock has no real multi-enemy "oh crap" ability, and can use all the help they can get.
Tradeskills: Tailoring/Enchanting, because Warlocks get free mounts and Enchanters are always hard up for cash. At least they won't have to pay for a mount on top of all that money drain.

Anyhow, I hope some of you find this a fun theoretical exercise as I do. Last night I restarted my level 19 Rogue and my level 12 Paladin to fit in with this scheme, and my level 60 Priest is retired. I'm hopeless, aren't I?

Talk amongst yourselves; I'll give you a topic: what's the optimum Horde configuration, given the same limitations? After all, there are eight classes there too (replacing Paladin with Shaman), and you could have eight distinct race/gender combinations as well.

-Bolty

[Lissa]

3) Warrior - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for ranged attacks and the situationally awesome Stoneform provide useful bonuses for a tanking Warrior.
Tradeskills: Mining/Blacksmithing, since Warriors are major platemail wearers.

5) Paladin - Human
Explanation: The sword and mace specializations are sweet, and although the 5% bonus to spirit isn't so useful on a Paladin, it's more useful to this class than a Warrior.  Only Dwarves and Humans can be Paladins, and Paladins don't need Stoneform that much when they have Purify.  The Purify thing is the clincher that moves the Paladin to Human and the Warrior to Dwarf.
Tradeskills: Mining/Blacksmithing, since Paladins are major platemail wearers.

8) Warlock - Gnome
Explanation: 5% Intelligence bonus, yes, but also Escape Artist.  Warlocks lack an "escape" skill and this can help a little bit if they are snared.  While Mages can Blink/Frost Nova and Priest can Psychic Scream if they're in trouble, a Warlock has no real multi-enemy "oh crap" ability, and can use all the help they can get.
Tradeskills: Tailoring/Enchanting, because Warlocks get free mounts and Enchanters are always hard up for cash.  At least they won't have to pay for a mount on top of all that money drain.

-Bolty
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Disagree on your race choices for these three. Human is the better choice for Warlock due to one overriding Talent, Demonic Embrace. Human + Demonic Embrace = 15% more stamina with no downside. Likewise, stamina is far more useful to a Warlock than int is and many would argue that in fact stamina is the primary attribute of the Warlock, not int.

Likewise, I would put the Warrior as a Gnome because of escape artist. If you get snared in someway and the mob charges off after one of the group members, you can get out of the snare and run after the mob easily enough.

As such, with those two changed, Dwarf has to go Paladin by default by your original criteria.

[Quark]

Just some random nits and additions here. Note that my suggestions probably won't work out to "2 for each race".

1) Druid - Night Elf
Explanation: I start with the Druid because it's the easiest.  Only Night Elves can be Druids.  Done deal.  All this means is that a Night Elf spot is automatically assigned, leaving just one to decide on.
Tradeskills: Skinning/Leatherworking for the Leather and Mail later on.

Nix the mail part :)
Recommendation for Tribal specialization, too.

2) Rogue - Night Elf
Explanation: I selected Night Elf for the Rogue.  This is due to Shadowmeld which provides a boost to stealth when in stealth mode, and the 1% chance to dodge bonus.  Rogues love dodging, and this seems to fit in the best compared to the other races.
Tradeskills: Skinning/Leatherworking, since Rogues are major Leather wearers.

Recommend Elemental Leatherworking here.

3) Warrior - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for ranged attacks and the situationally awesome Stoneform provide useful bonuses for a tanking Warrior.
Tradeskills: Mining/Blacksmithing, since Warriors are major platemail wearers.

Stoneform seems usefull for a warrior, but on a PvP realm you may want Gnome for Escape Artist.

6) Priest - Human
Explanation: 5% spirit boost, aww yeah.  I love Insane Mana Regen.™  Mace specialization doesn't hurt, either, for when the Priest is using one over a staff.  The Human Priest special spells with Desperate Prayer are more useful than the Night Elf Priest Starshards attack spell (which I have found with my level 60 Night Elf Priest to be no more useful than a Smite or Mind Blast, it just looks prettier) and Elune's Grace, which lowers ranged physical attack damage a bit.
Tradeskills: Hebalism/Alchemy, because somebody's gotta do it.

You do lose the awesome Fear Ward with this. Fear Ward is a definate game-changing spell. If you need faction with the Timbermaw (not sure for Alchemy), then the Diplomacy bonus will help somewhat.

7) Mage - Gnome
Explanation: Um, 5% Intelligence bonus.  I believe that's a "Nuff said."
Tradeskills: Mining/Engineering, because the passive Engineering bonus should be taken advantage of.

Counterpoint: I love the freedom Herb/Alch gives me as a Gnome Mage. I can afford to be a little more risky then normal, because if I get in a bad situation, I know using my pots won't hurt too much. On Ramala, however, I hate using pots.

8) Warlock - Gnome
Explanation: 5% Intelligence bonus, yes, but also Escape Artist.  Warlocks lack an "escape" skill and this can help a little bit if they are snared.  While Mages can Blink/Frost Nova and Priest can Psychic Scream if they're in trouble, a Warlock has no real multi-enemy "oh crap" ability, and can use all the help they can get.
Tradeskills: Tailoring/Enchanting, because Warlocks get free mounts and Enchanters are always hard up for cash.  At least they won't have to pay for a mount on top of all that money drain.

I think as this latest patch develops, Warlocks will be paying more for mounts than other classes. Their epic mounts require items aquired through many different tradeskills. These are player driven markets, and players are going to see the higher demand and raise the prices. Current estimations for Warlock/Pally epic mounts go from 550g-700g depending on server prices. It's gonna get worse.

[Brista]

I'll have a go at Horde

Undead Rogue - in pvp rogues are quite often ideal priest killers (since it's harder for the other classes to get to the back lines), so your stealth commandos seem like the guys who should get the counter to psychic scream

Undead Priest - because it was the last slot left. No special reasons really, but Wotf on the main healer can't be a bad notion and vampiric shadowy death spells look a lot cooler coming from some gribbly undead thing than from some orange-haired rastafarian troll

Troll Warrior - health regen on the guy who's always in a scrap

Troll Mage - extra damage to beasts on a dps class is nice

Orc Warlock - buffed up pet

Orc Hunter - buffed up pet

Tauren Shaman - stomp suits the offtank well I think - with totems, shocks and warstomp that's a very versatile arsenal of tricks, so playing this might be a test of tactical thinking because there are so many good solutions available

Tauren Druid (only Druid option) - I play one and if you use all your forms rather than just staying bear all the time or whatever war stomp is a great addition.

[Treesh]

Undead Rogue - in pvp rogues are quite often ideal priest killers (since it's harder for the other classes to get to the back lines), so your stealth commandos seem like the guys who should get the counter to psychic scream

Troll Warrior - health regen on the guy who's always in a scrap

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I'd do a troll rogue instead of a warrior. The undead rogue won't need the counter to psychic scream as much because we can keep the priest stunned/disorientated/kicked/silenced fairly well already and the troll health regen is more efficient on the rogue since we won't be tanking all the time so it comes in handy for those times when we get hurt, but then shed the aggro and continue fighting. The warrior isn't going to want to shed the attackers so the regen will just be overwhelmed by the damage anyway. Yes, it will help a bit in those situations, but I'd still go troll rogue over undead rogue for most PvE stuff.

Edit: But also keep in mind that I just don't really have a min/max mindset so I could be far off on this. ;)

Edit2: I also wonder if Berserking stacks with slice and dice or if one overrides the other. It'd be tremendous fun though if they do stack. :D

[lemekim]

Alliance priest - as some others pointed out, definately Dwarf.

You get a way to deal with poisons/bleeding (stoneform, arguably the most underrated ability), and you get very nice Fear Ward instead of Feedback (and Desparate Prayer is nice as well). Fear Ward makes some game-end encounters so much easier (Magmadar for one), and is nice in PvP as well. The small diplomacy bonus, +5% spirit and +5 maces cannot make up for the much higher utility that dwarf brings to the table.

As for Horde priest, given that there are only 2 choices, Undead win even if just because troll abilities are horrible (and Devouring Plague is nice, especially for a shadow priest).

[Bolty]

Fear Ward makes some game-end encounters so much easier (Magmadar for one), and is nice in PvP as well. The small diplomacy bonus, +5% spirit and +5 maces cannot make up for the much higher utility that dwarf brings to the table.[right][snapback]74447[/snapback][/right]

When people tell me Fear Ward is so uber, my only thought is that Fear is dispelled with Dispell Magic. While undoubtedly Fear Ward is nice in PvP in order to protect *yourself* against a *single* cast of Fear (it then wears off, right?), with the 15% extra resistance to fear as the basic Discipline talent and the ability to dispell Fear on any party member with an instant-cast spell, I don't know if Fear Ward really overcomes 5% spirit in a PvE environment. At least with my playing style which puts high value on mana regen. Then throw Feedback in the equation as a plus for Humans.

I am not familiar enough with Fear Ward's and Feedback's specifics - how *exactly* do they work?

-Bolty

[lemekim]

Fear ward prevents 1 fear, lasts 10 minutes and has a cooldown of 30 seconds. Feedback works only if you melee, and if the target has mana. While both of these spells are situational, Fear Ward is a much better spell in the situations that it helps in.

In group PVE, priests usualy don't melee at all, but stand back and heal, so feedback is barely used in these situations. However, since Fear Ward is castable on party members, you can effectively prevent fear once every 30 seconds, and can be useful in fights against bosses who fear a lot, and even world mobs that fear (like bats in Stratholme). Some mobs tend to lose aggro on a target if its feared, which can lead to quite disastrous results.

In group PVP, feedback again is not very useful, given that priests mainly heal/dispel. However, fear ward is still useful, even if it can be dispelled. Imagine a warrior running into your party and fearing everyone - in group pvp that is quite deadly, and Fear Ward can effectively prevent that. If you prebuff your party, that means opponents have to waste time on dispell, provided they can even get in range (a Rogue can be stealthed and avoid dispell at all).

For soloing, Feedback sounds better, and combined with other racial abilities (mace spec, extra spirit, reputation bonus) this might make it a better soloing build - although Stoneform and Fearward can be quite useful in soloing as well. However in group, I think Dwarf abilities really shine and make him a superior priest.

Edit: forgot to add - what happens if as a priest and the only person who can dispell fear, you are the one feared? You can't get rid of it, while your main tank dies without heals =(

[mjdoom]

When people tell me Fear Ward is so uber, my only thought is that Fear is dispelled with Dispell Magic.  While undoubtedly Fear Ward is nice in PvP in order to protect *yourself* against a *single* cast of Fear (it then wears off, right?), with the 15% extra resistance to fear as the basic Discipline talent and the ability to dispell Fear on any party member with an instant-cast spell, I don't know if Fear Ward really overcomes 5% spirit in a PvE environment.  At least with my playing style which puts high value on mana regen.  Then throw Feedback in the equation as a plus for Humans.

I am not familiar enough with Fear Ward's and Feedback's specifics - how *exactly* do they work?

-Bolty
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It seems to me that the biggest advantage to fear ward is that a warded player will never lose aggro to the target. In some cases if your main tank loses aggro even for a second or two it can be deadly. Fear ward is also nice in situations where the priest himself might get feared as you cannot dispel fear if you are running in fear yourself.

Your assertion that fear ward "wears off" after one fear effect is correct. That said, in many PvE cases (and PvP if you are not facing multiple fearing players or a warlock) you can recast fear ward quick enough to essentially make it permanent as I think its 30 second cooldown is similar to the cooldown of most skills that cause fear. It can also be nice to have it up on your entire party so that you don't have to go dispelling multiple fears against mobs with aoe fear attacks.

What it basically boils down to is it buys you a slight decrease in mana usage (because you can prebuff it) which is minimal but more importantly you can make it so that players can play straight through one fear effect without ever losing aggro or control. I was in Z'F last night and being turned into a frog as MT is very annoying. Sure priests can dispel the hex, but I would certainly prefer if we could prevent it from ever happening in the first place. This is the same idea.

I profess to have no knowledge of Feedback but from its spell description it doesn't seem to be that useful so with the knowledge I have it comes down to whether you want some more utility in Fear Ward or a minor boost to mana regen. Assuming 300 spirit and that 3 spirit=1 mana per tick (to make math easy) this would give you an extra 5 mana per tick when not casting and maybe 1 mana per tick when casting with the appropriate discipline talents (depending on exact formulas and rounding). I don't know if there is a "right" choice but those are the options as I see them.

- mjdoom

Edit: Forgot it but a few other people mentioned stoneform. This skill is very useful sometimes as priests can't get rid of poison (blech) on their own. Especially places like the abominations leading up to Rammstein in Stratholme it is nice to have a way to instantly cure poison and it even gives you a modest armor increase to boot. The loss of mobility shouldn't be an issue.

[Treesh]

When people tell me Fear Ward is so uber, my only thought is that Fear is dispelled with Dispell Magic.  While undoubtedly Fear Ward is nice in PvP in order to protect *yourself* against a *single* cast of Fear (it then wears off, right?), with the 15% extra resistance to fear as the basic Discipline talent and the ability to dispell Fear on any party member with an instant-cast spell, I don't know if Fear Ward really overcomes 5% spirit in a PvE environment.  At least with my playing style which puts high value on mana regen.  Then throw Feedback in the equation as a plus for Humans.

I am not familiar enough with Fear Ward's and Feedback's specifics - how *exactly* do they work?

-Bolty
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My Aleri loves high mana regen. She's almost always the only healer in the group so I really need all the mana I can get and I have to be able to survive well. So she HoTs, and flash heals and wands when she isn't healing. High spirit for her helps so much with my playstyle. However, I really do enjoy having fear ward and stoneform. When we were playing in Un'Goro crater, I didn't know the critters could fear me so I didn't have my fear ward up. We got into a bad situation and without fear ward up, I got feared and then run into yet more mobs. I died. When we were playing in Shimmering Flats against all those stupid scorpid terrors, I had fear ward up on both GG and I all the time. Didn't have an issue with fear. Taranna and Etheramwen play in Shimmering Flats and Eth is constantly feared and running off into other mobs (losing any combo points I had built up in the process). That 5% spirit bonus can be somewhat made up by getting +spirit items in game. Even with the 5 points in unbreakable will that she has, fear ward has been needed and it's a whole lot harder to find shadow resistance equipment that will make a noticeable difference to being feared than it is to find spirit gear to boost your regen.

With stoneform, I can save my strong anti-venom to cure Gnolack or others of some of the worst poisons out there instead of burning them on myself. And not everyone is going to be able to get the strong anti-venom book drop so this is a decent alternative to clearing it off yourself before you learn to make strong anti-venom. The only debuffs my Aleri can't cure are curses now (and things that just aren't any category like sunder armor).

I originally chose to make her a dwarf simply because Gnolack was a gnome and a dwarf was as close to a gnome as I could get and still be a priest, but I'm quite glad I did so. I do have a baby human priest coming up through the ranks on a PvP server just to see what the differences are and how much of a difference feedback makes, but I'm still thrilled with my Aleri.

[BoddoZerg]

When people tell me Fear Ward is so uber, my only thought is that Fear is dispelled with Dispell Magic.  While undoubtedly Fear Ward is nice in PvP in order to protect *yourself* against a *single* cast of Fear (it then wears off, right?), with the 15% extra resistance to fear as the basic Discipline talent and the ability to dispell Fear on any party member with an instant-cast spell, I don't know if Fear Ward really overcomes 5% spirit in a PvE environment.  At least with my playing style which puts high value on mana regen.  Then throw Feedback in the equation as a plus for Humans.

I am not familiar enough with Fear Ward's and Feedback's specifics - how *exactly* do they work?

-Bolty
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Fear Ward is pretty much uber in instance runs. Whereas Horde has to put tremor totems everywhere, stay close to the tank in order to dispel, and is generally afraid of Fear on tanks (as most Warriors seem to be Tauren/Troll), the Alliance just puts Fear Ward on everything and owns fear casting mobs.

FW isn't exactly uber in PvP, as it only works for one Fear and can be dispelled. But it sure is strong PvE.

[Drasca]

For all new characters, I recommend gathering skills. Herbalism, mining, skinning. You can develop crafting skills at high level much easier, and later. The only direct use is alchemy (healing pots, buffs, misc). Be warned however, if you go herbalism/alchemy you will have little professions source of income, as you're consuming your own goods.

4) Hunter - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for teh winxorz!  I can't see that losing to any of the other race bonuses in the Hunter's case.  This was more of a "fill in the blank" combination since the Hunter  doesn't get much direct use out of any race's bonuses except this one.[right][snapback]74392[/snapback][/right]

On a PvP server, I'd disagree. Shadowmeld is much more useful for hunters. Shadowmelded hunters with pets dismissed make for nasty recon setup for ambushes, and shadowmeld will get hunters out of a tight spot after running out oc combat.

5) Paladin - Human
Explanation: The sword and mace specializations are sweet, and although the 5% bonus to spirit isn't so useful on a Paladin, it's more useful to this class than a Warrior.

+Spirit paladins are nasty, as vs Pally battles depend on long drawn out Paladin mana regen, divine shield/self heal spam at 1/3 health. Again, pvp server. I do not know how Paladins do PvE.

8) Warlock - Gnome
While Mages can Blink/Frost Nova and Priest can Psychic Scream if they're in trouble, a Warlock has no real multi-enemy "oh crap" ability, and can use all the help they can get.

Warlocks have no direct escape abilities. +Int isn't as useful on a warlock, but certainly moreso than spirit. The only reason to go human is for the +stealth detection. Paranoia and Human +stealth = that much harder for rogues to find sneak up... at least, I hope it stacks. Otherwise... useless.

The +sword skill, usesable by 1H warlocks and +1% crit focus sword from inner mara in particular, is near useless.

Spirit has almost no place with warlocks. Mana should be regained by improved life drain and more importantly improved life tap.

As others have observed, fear ward is overpowered in Dwarf Priests.


On the horde side, Orcs are the least played on my server... hardiness (resist stun +25%, which is about 2%) does work marginally, but enough to chafe rogues and pve enemies. I myself am an Orc Warlock, and I am hurting for fear defenses.. or any CC defense. However, root and snares aren't a problem. Warlocks have aren't mages who jump around all the time. We only do that half the time. Rooted? Snared? Use your powerful ranged spells.

Undead warlocks are better against casters, especially other warlocks and priests. Sometimes warrior intimidating fear too. However... Orcs are better against melee enemies, especially those powerful warrior/rogue stuns. Orc melee pets hit harder too.

[oldmandennis]

About the tradeskills....

I tried a similar stratagy until I got bored and started playing only one character. This happened with the mob about lvl 23.

I would make more gatherers and fewer crafters.

Doubling up on Leatherworking for example, means that you will spend a lot of leather and time, essentially so you can get both Tribal and Elemental leatherworking. A quick peek at thott shows no BOP high end items made by either specialties. I think a much more sensible plan would be to change one of your leather/skin into herb or mine/skin. He could mail the other guy leather, and get armor in return, and mail the herbs to an alchemest and you could distribute the potions to all of your mob. Then use the AH to pick up any specialized items you are missing.

A similar argument could be made for the smiths, though I haven't looked at thott to check about the lack of BOP's, if something there is great that discounts my argument.

Almost the same argument can be made for engineering. Hunters are probably ok without explosives, and can recieve guns and ammo in the mail. Also, you might want to make the priest the engineer to increase her solo damage output. The racial engineering bonus is pretty useless IMHO.

One thing to think about is tailors and alchemests have high end recepies that are on a timer. You might want to make some more of those to take advantage of those things. You could also switch some of them over if they get past 35 and find they have fallen out of favor, just make them a mooncloth/arcanite mule.

[Artega]

I'll take a stab at the Horde side of things. All tradeskills would either be dual-gathering (disenchanting/mining or disenchanting/herbing) or Herbalism/Alchemy. You very rarely make money with the production professions (minus Alchemy, since you can make scads from the transmutes); it's more effective to use dual gathering to make money and then use that money to purchase the few crafted items worth using (and/or provide some of the materials if applicable.)

Warrior - Undead. WotF was good before, and with the recent Sheep and Seduce changes, it's truly uber. You now have at least three methods to break fear (four if you're Fury spec), plus you can now break Sheep. Priceless.

Mage - Undead. Kinda falls into this category by default.

Priest - Troll. With the changes to their racial ability, they have the potential to have impressive recovery abilties (25% faster Flash Heals!) Shadowguard is also pretty nice, compared to Devouring Plague.

Hunter - Troll. Falls into this category by default.

Warlock - Orc. No reason other than the fact that I feel Orcs make better Warlocks than Undead. After all, they were doing it way before the Undead were. 5% pet bonus is okay, but it's still only +5 damage when the pet's doing 100.

Rogue - Orc. They stand to make the best use of the improved Blood Fury ability. Activate the ability and open with Ambush (which I heard was improved in relation to Attack Power) with an extra +25% on top of any other talents. They can then Vanish or Stealth away during the 45 seconds of -25% AP.

Shaman - Tauren. Stomp + Improved Ghost Wolf = you live. It's also good for a free Lesser Healing Wave.

Druid - Tauren. No choice here, but Stomp works incredibly well with caster classes.

[LochnarITB]

even me, who secretly longs for Gnome Priests...
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Psst, Bolty - it's not a secret... :P

[Jarulf]

Just a few general questions, from someone who has not played much since mid beta and never got above level 35.

How much impact do the race abilities really make in the end? I mean, what is the impact of the of 5% spirit or intelligence really?

I see mentioning of spells and/or talants (is it still called that?) that seems race specific, is that so? Or did I missunderstand something?

And with the risk of a "hijack" of the thread, what would change above if one doesn't have the requirement of one of each race/proffesion when selecting?

Also, are people arguing based on PvP only? Seems there is much talk about how skills and such works versus other players, what if one play mostly PvE?

And to be even more specific, assume one would buy the game, play on PvE only, pick one alliance and one horde character, trying to get a varied play experience and consider to play quite a bit solo as well and not that much each week and probably won't run instances and such day long. What would be good/nice/fun two characters to create?

In comment to the last, and partly what I did in beta was to create an Orc warrior and an Night Elf Priest. Two quite different character types I would say. I do like pure fighters, and as an alternative a more non combat oriented char (that can still play and level on its own). From the looks of it, I like the Male NIght Elf for the look of a Priest and I also liked the Female Orc Warrior appearance. Least liked "look" was undead, troll, gnome and human (I like non humans, nothing bad by humans by itself).

I also like the starting area of the NE and don't want to miss out on it, so would like a NE (or can others go there?) Alternatively I prefer the Dwarf starting area. Both seems to be a bit "off the road" and calm and I like that. The Human starting are seems to be in the middle of everything and more hectic. For the Horde, not sure, The Tauren has that same feeling as NE. Undead is pretty nice and fun too and feel a bit on its own. The Orc/Troll is the most booring and although not in the middle of everything, seems like the same as the Barrens were one will spend a lot of time anyway so not as interesting.

What proffesions to consider for those two chars, I suppose they should be in part self managing.

From a quest /story point of view, what is "better" the Horde or the Alliance. That is, which should I start with?

Any other sugestions tips or hints on what two chars to pick for good experience (not exp points, playing experience for me as a person). Should I factor in talants into the picking of characters? What should I focus on, I understand for each class one can go a few different ways.

I realise much of the answers are subjective. And no, I don't plan to get the game at the moment. Beside, I still don't like the split of Europe/USA as far as servers and such goes. I believe most LL are on USA servers, right?

[Occhidiangela]

Just a few general questions, from someone who has not played much since mid beta and never got above level 35.

How much impact do the race abilities really make in the end? I mean, what is the impact of the of 5% spirit or intelligence really?

I see mentioning of spells and/or talants (is it still called that?) that seems race specific, is that so? Or did I missunderstand something?

And with the risk of a "hijack" of the thread, what would change above if one doesn't have the requirement of one of each race/proffesion when selecting?

Also, are people arguing based on PvP only? Seems there is much talk about how skills and such works versus other players, what if one play mostly PvE?

And to be even more specific, assume one would buy the game, play on PvE only, pick one alliance and one horde character, trying to get a varied play experience and consider to play quite a bit solo as well and not that much each week and probably won't run instances and such day long. What would be good/nice/fun two characters to create?

In comment to the last, and partly what I did in beta was to create an Orc warrior and an Night Elf Priest. Two quite different character types I would say. I do like pure fighters, and as an alternative a more non combat oriented char (that can still play and level on its own). From the looks of it, I like the Male NIght Elf for the look of a Priest and I also liked the Female Orc Warrior appearance. Least liked "look" was undead, troll, gnome and human (I like non humans, nothing bad by humans by itself).

I also like the starting area of the NE and don't want to miss out on it, so would like a NE (or can others go there?) Alternatively I prefer the Dwarf starting area. Both seems to be a bit "off the road" and calm and I like that. The Human starting are seems to be in the middle of everything and more hectic. For the Horde, not sure, The Tauren has that same feeling as NE. Undead is pretty nice and fun too and feel a bit on its own. The Orc/Troll is the most booring and although not in the middle of everything, seems like the same as the Barrens were one will spend a lot of time anyway so not as interesting.

What proffesions to consider for those two chars, I suppose they should be in part self managing.

From a quest /story point of view, what is "better" the Horde or the Alliance. That is, which should I start with?

Any other sugestions tips or hints on what two chars to pick for good experience (not exp points, playing experience for me as a person). Should I factor in talants into the picking of characters? What should I focus on, I understand for each class one can go a few different ways.

I realise much of the answers are subjective. And no, I don't plan to get the game at the moment. Beside, I still don't like the split of Europe/USA as far as servers and such goes. I believe most LL are on USA servers, right?
[right][snapback]74574[/snapback][/right]

If I sent you a copy of the US version of the game, would you be able to log into US servers, or is your ISP location going to auto divert you to Europe? It can be arranged. :)

Occhi

[Phoenix]

If I sent you a copy of the US version of the game, would you be able to log into US servers, or is your ISP location going to auto divert you to Europe?  It can be arranged. :)

Occhi
[right][snapback]74606[/snapback][/right]

A Norwegian friend of mine has the US version and he plays on the US servers, but I'm not sure how he pays. I doubt that a European gamecard works to pay for a US subscription. At least he got the first month for free.

[Xanthix]

How much impact do the race abilities really make in the end? I mean, what is the impact of the of 5% spirit or intelligence really?

An extra 5% intelligence is maybe 250 extra mana at level 60. This is enough to cast one more spell. Nice, but not game-breaking. 5% spirit is an exta 4 mana regenerated per tick. Not very useful. The other racial abilities seem to fall into the range from "nice" to "useless."

I see mentioning of spells and/or talants (is it still called that?) that seems race specific, is that so? Or did I missunderstand something?

In addition to racial traits, Priests of different races can learn race-specific spells, such as Fear Ward. AFAIK they are the only class that has this. See the WoW Priest forum for details.

Also, are people arguing based on PvP only? Seems there is much talk about how skills and such works versus other players, what if one play mostly PvE?

Whether you are talking PvP or PvE can make a huge difference. Shadowmeld is extremely useful in PvP, and is mildly useful in PvE. Fear Ward is the reverse.

[MongoJerry]

4) Hunter - Dwarf
Explanation: Gun specialization for teh winxorz!  I can't see that losing to any of the other race bonuses in the Hunter's case.  This was more of a "fill in the blank" combination since the Hunter  doesn't get much direct use out of any race's bonuses except this one.
Tradeskills: Mining/Engineering, because crafting your own shot and guns is fun to do.

You gotta make your hunter a night elf for the shadowmeld. Hunter shadowmelds, waits for an unsuspecting player to come along, aimed shot in the back followed by a quick massive barrage. Definitely a winning strategy. The only problem with it is that you'll have to dismiss your pet first or else give away your position. If the pets also shadowmelded, it'd be the ultimate hunter ability.

Also, I'd make the hunter the herbalist/alchemist. Yes, engineering lets you make guns and ammo. But the guns they can make aren't as good as the ones you get out in the world and a hunter goes through so much ammo that it's not worth the materials to bother making shot with +1 more dps that you'll use up after only a few fights. I had much more success with my hunter using potions to boost various stats -- int, stamina, and most especially agility. At high levels, Elixirs of the Mongoose were a staple of mine and at least those would last an entire hour, unlike a stack of bullets.

Regarding the priest, he/she has to be a dwarf. Being able to keep your main tank from losing aggro by being feared is crucial. Nevermind the rest of the party -- just keep the main tank unfeared and you'll be golden. If you can additionally keep yourself from being feared, that then lets you be able to dispell fears on everyone else and keep healing.

Regarding Starshards, I actually liked it a lot. I guess it comes from how much I hate the casting time on Holy Smite. I can't remember the last time I used Smite. I liked Starshards (and now Mind Flay), because it gave me something to cast between Mind Blasts if I really wanted to and the damage starts affecting the target instantly rather than a few seconds later -- useful when fighting mobs or players who can interrupt spells and also useful to use against mobs that are running away. Of course, I usually just use wand and/or staff hits or cast healing spells on me between Mind Blasts, but if I really want the little bit of extra dps, then Starshards/Mind Flay can be useful for that. (And having Starshards makes it so that if you're going holy spec, you won't miss Mind Flay so much).