Priests. Why we are so ..umm.. difficult.

[Thawwing Light]

Stop. You're suffering a terrible disease: pickupitis! The only cure for this is some good solo time or some time with a permanent group of trusted friends.

Personally, I'm a Warrior player, but I did play a healer back in Final Fantasy 11, which had infinitely more party neurosis than WoW will ever have simply from the fact the entire game had to be partied. As a WHM, I was THE thing to invite... but the 50%+ bad groups you get from playing pickup in a good environment for it just turns you off. I quit the game because it's simply too unreliable to play any game that requires a functioning group with an ever-shifting roster of strangers, ignorant and willing to learn at best, and horribly misinformed and arrogant at worst.

In WoW, I play a Warrior. Sure, we're a lot more common than priests, but that doesn't really mean the good ones are. Same goes for good priests. I've run into a few priests that thought they were damage casters: sure, they deal fine damage, and so do Warriors, but that's not what a group wants when they think of a Warrior, and it's not what they want when they think of a priest.

For a cure to what ails you, find a Warrior in your guild you can party with a lot that's willing to at least talk to you. I'm lucky, as the friend of mine that plays priest is someone I've known for 12 years. Learn to not panic when you get hate, and when he pulls, and he'll learn to watch for your fade, and what he can pull when you have X mana. Trust is the most important part of a party, and a permanent pairing with a Warrior can trust helps the party immeasurably, as you become used to each other's playstyle.


---

That was long. Summary? Pickup sucks. Get a permanent duo going if at all possible, or at least a friends list of safe tanks.

[Kevin]

Like the Paladin who casts Blessing of Might on my Priest, or the players that insist that sending everyone in on the same target is a good strategy, leaving the Priest to get pounded the moment they heal anyone - WTF?
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Explain this one more please. Pretty much all I have ever done in an instance is main tank or main heal. I have main tanked with a paladin, a hunter, and a warrior and main healed with a priest, a druid and a paladin. We have pretty much always used focus fire tactics, knocking off one mob at a time and I have pretty much never seen the healer draw aggro from anything except an add that sees the healer before it sees something else. There have been a few boss fights where the main tank was getting hurt enough that the heals alone were enough to pull aggro but that has happened very rarely.

Now when people are spreading damage to several different mobs and more than just the main tank has gotten hurt I have seen heals draw aggro. If the main tank hasn't used any AoE aggro generators or put a hit on the other mobs I've seen that pull aggro to the healer but that is usually the tank messing up. I see aggro go to the mages or warlocks doing AoE damage too early a lot more often than I see it go to the healer.

I'm hoping you are just talking about the MT not locking aggro well enough on mobs otherwise I'm very confused or have been very lucky for my dozens of instance runs.

[LochnarITB]

So what is the reason behind the "priest hate"?
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My first reaction was "Huh???". I didn't even conceive of it existing. I love priests. Their shield is better than my ice barrier when I go into AoE mode for trash mobs (ooh I actually thought mob for an individual, instead of monster or baddie - scary, very scary). If I screw up or string crits on my snowballs and the mob aggros on me, they usually choose to keep me alive anyway while I bring the mob to the tank for removal. They also bring great entertainment value when they MC one mob (man, I'm doing good!) against the others. Always good for grins and giggles when they do our work for us.

Just as in real life, they can probably get a bit arrogant at times. That is as much the fault of the other players, and the game itself, as it is their own. They are constantly in demand and others that rebel against their power over life and death are easily put in their place either by showing them how easy it is for them to die or by eliciting the support of the other players to convince them.

This thread has made me reconsider something though. I have been playing a druid lately. He has been so easy to solo that it never dawned on me that druids are lumped in with priests and that I am, in fact, building a healer class. I may have to abandon him. I have always seen the healer (used to be synonymous with priest) as the highest stress member of the party with the rest of the group relying on you to "not suck" or even have a bad night. I just don't do stress well and have never wanted anyone to be so dependent on me, a carry over from real life I guess. I'll have to keep going with him and see how things pan out.

[MongoJerry]

This is more than a mere question auf game mechanics. When I look at my friendslist, I notice that most of them are either priests themselves or other primary caster classes such as mages and warlocks. Indeed the players of other classes that made it to my friendslist, are not so much there, because I enjoy their company, but rather because I have rated them as "reliable" players.
Now judging from the reactions of e.g. warriors or rogues to priests, I have come to thinking, that not much love is lost on the other side either, for us priests, as well as for mages or warlocks for that matter.

First of all, welcome!

That's an interesting comment regarding your friends list, because I've had the opposite experience. It took a long time for another priest to appear on my friends list, because I so rarely got a chance to party with one. Then, when I did get in 10-15 player raid parties, they were mostly zergs of dungeons designed for 5-player parties, so there was little chance to really see if anyone was any good. Plus, the other priest would likely be placed in a different sub-party anyway, so again I rarely got to see if the other person was any good or not. The only times I really added priests to my friends list were during those rare times that I got to 5-man an instance with another priest and if the experience was enjoyable (it often was). Or, of course, a priest might get added if the person seemed like a nice person.

In contrast, my friends list has always had *lots* of warriors on them. I've always had a good attachment to my warriors and have built up a network of warriors I know are good. It makes so much difference in the life of a priest if a warrior knows how to do the little things like keep aggro on multiple mobs at once, equip themselves and use their skills to minimize the damage they take, and know how to pull mobs off a priest when necessary. A big bonus comes if the warrior understands how to pull a mob that has broken Mind Control off a priest. It also helps if the warrior knows to watch for a priest's mana and can work with the group's crowd controlers (who that is depends on the mobs and party makeup) to minimize the damage that he or she receives in a battle. The one player in a party I am most intensely focused on is the warrior, and reciprocally, the one player the warrior is most dependent on is the priest.

As far as the other classes go, mostly I notice how well the different members contribute to their party by working together, using crowd control, buffing each other, etc. I tend to have the best relationships with warlocks, because they are also in many ways a support class. Or at least, they seem to appreciate the roll of the priest more. I hardly notice rogues other than during the initial sap, because they tend to be self-sufficient. I notice hunters a little more if they're skillful in teaching parties how to use their traps and other special abilities, but again, I hardly notice them, because they tend to be self-sufficient. I notice secondary healers if they help keep me alive (because I often suffer the common priest affliction of not noticing my own health until it's too late).

On the other hand, I tend to loathe mages, who tend to be very self centered and egocentric. (Present company excepted, of course). They're the most likely to break any crowd control cast by anyone but themselves with poorly timed and unnecesary aoe spells (Frost Nova should especially be banned in group situations). Plus, they tend to like to soak up my mana by aggroing everything in the room and spamming aoe's before the warrior gets a chance to build up a little aggro on the mobs even when half the mobs are elites and then all they can do is yell, "Shield!" when their paper mache bodies crumple to the floor and the rest of the party has to pick up the pieces of their abject stupidity.

Woah, where'd that come from?

[Boutros]

A big bonus comes if the warrior understands how to pull a mob that has broken Mind Control off a priest.
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:blush: Sorry. Sometimes I get so distracted by trying to hold aggro on everything at once that I forget a simple thing like the fact that MCed/Enslaved mobs shrug off single taunts. The next day I went back to DM North did a tribute run with no mistakes at all in a rather unbalanced group (no backup healer). Just goes to show that even a skilled, well balanced group can screw up horribly due to mental errors.

[Drasca]

The priest is a very focused class. They're singular objective is keeping people alive

The warlock is more of a big picture character.

Incoming adds or priest under attack? Redirect the pet. [right][snapback]76391[/snapback][/right]

Very correct on both points. Although sometimes it isn't the pet attack. You must trust your fellow players ability to crowd control. Tanks too. I hate when tanks charge just as an enemy is charmed or sheeped. Its a judgement call. You must understand your CC options and trust them beforehand.

In comparison priests are much less in control during battles: which healing spells I use, and how fast I use them is determined more by how the group is playing.

The main foci priests have are positioning, mana & aggro management in healing, and the occasional shackle or mind flay rank 1. However a lot of healers don't have a lot of attention for positioning. I have to remind priests to move sometimes, especially if they're too close to a crowd controlled enemy, or banished elemental that still has aoe.

I've seen good priests heal consistently past the oom point. I've seen bad priests waste mana. I've seen great shadow priests be great healers. I've seen a warlock 60 main turned high level priest totally kick ass in and out of instances.

[Drasca]

I tend to have the best relationships with warlocks, because they are also in many ways a support class.  Or at least, they seem to appreciate the roll of the priest more.  [right][snapback]76409[/snapback][/right]

I certainly do. WL + Priest combination early questing was deadly. Very synergistic skill sets. One of the reasons I made lots of priest friends my guild is jealous of.

They're the most likely to break any crowd control cast by anyone but themselves with poorly timed and unnecesary aoe spells (Frost Nova should especially be banned in group situations). 

Ahhh. I guess I've been pickier about my mages. I get along great with a lot of mages. They loooove curse of elements. OMG the crit! Is their usual I love you shout.

Plus, they tend to like to soak up my mana by aggroing everything in the room and spamming aoe's before the warrior gets a chance to build up a little aggro on the mobs even when half the mobs are elites and then all they can do is yell, "Shield!" when their paper mache bodies crumple to the floor and the rest of the party has to pick up the pieces of their abject stupidity.

Ahhahahaha. I've done that too, but on purpose as a soul-linked lock. I still take the same damage overall between my pet and myself, but at a much slower rate vs my much larger life pool. Its usally to steal aggro away from healers when adds number too many.

Sure... I can't aoe anymore really (interrupted), but I'm still a much larger wad of paper mache to eat through. I'm proud of my 315 defense, and 25% resist all too. If I still have mana or cooldowns left, I self-heal through life-drain, health stones, health funnel and death coil until aggro is stolen from me or the enemy is dead.

FYI: Soul link is bugged with shields now. If soul link is active and a shield (priest or sacrifice) is put on, the shield will not absorb damage until soul link is removed. Warlocks will continue to take damage through the shield.

[KiloVictor]

Stop. You're suffering a terrible disease: pickupitis! The only cure for this is some good solo time or some time with a permanent group of trusted friends.
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Remember: Friends don't let friends play in pickup groups.

Kv

[savaughn]

I'm adding a general reply because it kind of addresses issues brought up in all kinds of different posts.

a) Priests Only Heal
- In general, yes. In hard pulls, yes. This freaks people out because it looks like you're just standing there behind the party leeching off of their kills. I can get feeling guilty over this, so personally, if I know I have a few seconds where we are not in jeapardy, I will toss wand shots at the main assist's target. Most priests don't, and considering how fast things can turn on you and how quick you can end up having to shield someone, renew the whole party, and start flash healing the tank, I can appreciate why. Wanding, however, costs very little and if you can pull it off your damage contribution is not insignificant - and SW:P, of course.

If it costs you a party member, though, it wasn't worth it.

B) Suicidal Mages
- Been there, done that. Mages are probably the extreme because they wear tissue paper and their AoE attacks can allow them to easily bite off more than they can chew. Players, for some reason, often have no clue how hard they're getting hit when a Priest is on the clock. Our job is to make the party invulnerable and we do it so well that folks start to feel the instance is easy and they can handle anything. Then the priest runs out of mana and they all die. It's not just mages. Every DPS class can go there - it's just that mages can be the worst example.

Behind every successful mage is a terrified priest out of mana.

c) Focused Fire
- The comments on focused fire seem very simplistic to me so far. Yes, every party should use focused fire ... except for the main tank. Paladins seem like they're worse for this than warriors, but that may just be my personal experience. If you are the main tank and you are hitting one mob, you are either 1) zerging the instance and could solo that pull anyway, or 2) demanding that your priest tank. The first heal is going to strip every mob except the one your hitting off and send them at the priest. The job of the tank is to have more aggro on EVERY mob. Warriors get this. They wade in and start dropping sunders on each target and if they miss one they have taunt waiting in the wings. Or for Mind Control pulls, it's Sunder+Taunt (because neither alone will cover that aggro). Pallies need every tool they have to hold that hate.

If your priest is faded already and even one mob leaves you to hit him/her - you are a bad tank.

[Hedon]

On the other hand, I tend to loathe mages, who tend to be very self centered and egocentric.  (Present company excepted, of course).  They're the most likely to break any crowd control cast by anyone but themselves with poorly timed and unnecesary aoe spells (Frost Nova should especially be banned in group situations).  Plus, they tend to like to soak up my mana by aggroing everything in the room and spamming aoe's before the warrior gets a chance to build up a little aggro on the mobs even when half the mobs are elites and then all they can do is yell, "Shield!" when their paper mache bodies crumple to the floor and the rest of the party has to pick up the pieces of their abject stupidity.

Woah, where'd that come from?
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While I also prefer having warlocks to mages in a group, because they don't draw so much aggro, and can soak up a lot more damage before their health status becomes critical, and of course, these soulstones are really priceless, I also know a lot of very good mages. Yes it's true: having a mage on board causes every priest to get sweaty palms, as they really require immediate attention when getting hit, but many mages are really movement artistst, that blink around, frosting mobs, getting only scratches here and there, while setting of AE's.

A good mage will always announce, when he is going to AE, so that the priest can shield him, before he even gets started, as well as to make the priest aware that he is going to have spam Flashheals into the mage in the coming seconds.

I've made a simple macro, that automatically targets the mage and shields him at once, for these moments that require immediate attention, and it usally works out fine then.

Not forgetting that sheep is also a very useful addition to every group.

I even had mages taking aggro of me, so generally I have rather fond memories of running with mages. :)

[Treesh]

A good mage will always announce, when he is going to AE, so that the priest can shield him, before he even gets started, as well as to make the priest aware that he is going to have spam Flashheals into the mage in the coming seconds.
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Actually, something I've learned having two mages behind Aleri frequently is to not shield before the AoE. Let the mage take one or two hits (depending upon how hard the critters hit of course and how many critters there are), then shield, slap on a renew and be ready for a flash heal if shield wears off before the soul sickness does or before all the critters are dead. In really nasty situations, that actually keeps the mage alive better than shielding beforehand. At least if you have renew talented up as much as possible, it does.

If your mage is prone to panic or doesn't have improved arcane explosion maxed then this method may not work quite as well, but for me and my frequently-grouped-with mages, this keeps them alive and uses less of my mana and less concentration and worry than the way you describe.

[LochnarITB]

Actually, something I've learned having two mages behind Aleri frequently is to not shield before the AoE.  Let the mage take one or two hits (depending upon how hard the critters hit of course and how many critters there are), then shield, slap on a renew and be ready for a flash heal if shield wears off before the soul sickness does or before all the critters are dead.
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Another thing to be aware of is playing with a frost specced mage. If they have gone to the top of the frost branch, they have ice barrier which is the frost version of the priest's shield. This can be applied while heading into the trash that needs to be AoE'd. If the barrier drops before they are dropped, the priest can then choose to shield or heal (or let them die for biting off too much ;) ).

[mjdoom]

Actually, something I've learned having two mages behind Aleri frequently is to not shield before the AoE.  Let the mage take one or two hits (depending upon how hard the critters hit of course and how many critters there are), then shield, slap on a renew and be ready for a flash heal if shield wears off before the soul sickness does or before all the critters are dead.  In really nasty situations, that actually keeps the mage alive better than shielding beforehand.  At least if you have renew talented up as much as possible, it does. 

If your mage is prone to panic or doesn't have improved arcane explosion maxed then this method may not work quite as well, but for me and my frequently-grouped-with mages, this keeps them alive and uses less of my mana and less concentration and worry than the way you describe.
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Hmm, in my experience I always shield prior to aoe if there will be enough mobs that hit hard enough (experience helps here with how hard mobs can hit). In some late game cases mobs can tear through a max rank shield in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds. This is barely enough time to slap on a renew and cast one flash heal. In these cases your mage with aggro is taking damage faster than you can possibly flash it back. If the mobs will not be dead within about 10 seconds then you will want to be able to shield twice.

If you shield 5-10 seconds prior to the pull this will ensure that weakened soul will wear off by the time you need to reshield. It will also allow some time to regenerate some of that mana before the actual pull so it doesn't hamper your mana efficiency as much. I will admit that the times that this is a necessary tactic are few but it's still notable. Remember that once your mage has aggro that is pretty much permanent and it becomes a kill or be killed situation. The only reliable ways to save some hits from the mage are to: 1) Heal him or her 2)Kill all of the mobs 3) taunt one off temporarily (this can save one or two hits at best from one mob) 4) have a warlock aoeing at the same time. As has been hashed out in the mage comment thread a warlock can certainly pump out more aoe dps in a controlled situation and this can transfer aggro off of the mage.

Preshielding is certainly not always necessary, but there are also definitely situations where it is and I'm not sure that it's not a good habit to get into anyway. Any situation where you are preshielding is probably a controlled pull where you are at or near max mana on the pull. In that case any mana you have will be concentrated on keeping the primary AOEer alive and generally the mobs will be dead long before you go OOM. The extra buffer added by the preshield is certainly worth it IMHO.

- mjdoom

Edit: I don't want to sound contradictory but you made the claim that your method "keeps the mage alive better." Where is your basis for this statement? As I see it you are leaving less margin for error (with weakened soul) and intentionally letting the mage take more damage, what am I missing? (This is an honest question, please don't take it the wrong way)

[MongoJerry]

A good mage will always announce, when he is going to AE, so that the priest can shield him, before he even gets started, as well as to make the priest aware that he is going to have spam Flashheals into the mage in the coming seconds.

Even better are mages who know to wait a few beats at the start of a fight to let the warrior build up a little aggro (especially on any elites) and gather the mobs before spamming aoe's. Just a few second pause at the start of the fight makes a huge difference in the amount that I have to shield and heal. Also, it allows secondary aoe'ers to set themselves up, too. For example, shamans can drop aoe totems and hunters can get themselves setup for their volley (after the warrior shouts and gathers mobs to him/her). If the mage waits a few beats before starting, then all the party's aoe power can fall all at once and kill mobs before they get a chance to beat on the mage too much. I think the problem with many mages is that they mistakenly think that they are the party's *only* source of aoe and think they're going to pull all the aggro immediately anyway, so they think they might as well start spamming immediately. But if the warrior has a little aggro built up, then the mage can spam a couple aoe's before pulling aggro, and of course the supporting aoe'ers do make a difference.

[Treesh]

Preshielding is certainly not always necessary, but there are also definitely situations where it is and I'm not sure that it's not a good habit to get into anyway.  Any situation where you are preshielding is probably a controlled pull where you are at or near max mana on the pull.  In that case any mana you have will be concentrated on keeping the primary AOEer alive and generally the mobs will be dead long before you go OOM.  The extra buffer added by the preshield is certainly worth it IMHO.[right][snapback]76504[/snapback][/right]

And you are correct. There are some situations where it is absolutely necessary to preshield. You're absolutely correct on that. And that's why I sometimes preshield and sometimes don't. But there are also times where it's better to let the mage take a slight beating.

Edit: I don't want to sound contradictory but you made the claim that your method "keeps the mage alive better."  Where is your basis for this statement?  As I see it you are leaving less margin for error (with weakened soul) and intentionally letting the mage take more damage, what am I missing?  (This is an honest question, please don't take it the wrong way)
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My basis for this statement is that in certain situations and for the good of the group, everyone comes out alive in the party if I do it this way and I have more mana to use to heal others if need be. Aleri also has Improved Power Word: Shield maxed out so the weakened soul only lasts 15 seconds instead of the full 30. If I wait to cast the shield on the mage and then hit with a renew, in 15 seconds the mage will get almost all of that health that they lost back. The mage can get 2-3 AoEs off before I have to put a shield on. Then with shield on, they get to cast another round of AoEs. If the mobs aren't dead within the amount of time between the start of the AoEing and the time the shield wears off, they're damned close to it so the mage only needs one maybe two flash heals. Certainly not the wasteful "spamming" that Hedon mentions until you can get another shield on the mage. If you pre-shield, then your mage doesn't get that first 2-3 "free" AoEs so the mobs aren't as hurt when the shield goes down so you are more likely to be required to shield again. With this method, I'm less likely to have to shield a second time and that saves me mana.

This also depends upon how much AoE other members of the group are contributing. Aleri is a holy priest (with 10 points in discipline for unbreakable will, improved power word: shield and improved power word: fortitude) who has a protection specced warrior in front of her and two mages (usually) for support. If we need AoE, we've got AoE so we can take out groups quickly enough for me to usually not have to shield twice, but if I do have to shield twice (and I have), then that 15 seconds makes a huge difference. I am also almost always the only healer in the group so mana conservation and regen is a huge concern of mine. That means sometimes having to play things a little tighter so I can have mana when that patrol pops around the corner. One slightly beat on mage is much better than one dead mage and hurt other characters because I spent so much mana healing the mage when he/she needed to pump out the AoE.

I shouldn't have said, "keeps the mage alive better". I should have said that it keeps the group alive better.

[Treesh]

Another thing to be aware of is playing with a frost specced mage.  If they have gone to the top of the frost branch, they have ice barrier which is the frost version of the priest's shield.  This can be applied while heading into the trash that needs to be AoE'd.  If the barrier drops before they are dropped, the priest can then choose to shield or heal (or let them die for biting off too much  ;) ).
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Thank you for bringing this up. :) It's important to know.

[mjdoom]

Hmm, I don't want to quote your whole post so it doesn't get bloated but some more thoughts/questions:

First off: Flyndar is specced disc/holy and pretty much has been for most of his life (he only had minimal shadow prior to capping and skills you mention like Improved PW:S and Improved Renew are some of the first skills I went for when building him). My only point in saying this is to point out that we are starting with a similar skillset.

Just a note that I didn't think of earlier as well, preshielding is also beneficial in that in can stop spell interruption. I don't think this is so relevant in this particular discussion though because I assume Littledude and Sabramage have Improved Arcane explosion and won't be interrupted when AOEing with it.

Before I get into my questions I'd also like to clear up one more thing. Your assertion that not preshielding can save some mana is correct, but you theoretically only save as much mana as the casting cost of the shield minus the amount you have regened before the AOEer engages the enemy. Being a disc/holy priest I have mental agility along with a reasonable amount of spirit and +mana/sec. gear that makes it so that I can regen a decent portion of that preshield cost before we even engage the enemy (assuming a 5-10 second lead time to tick off most of the original 15 second weakend soul timer). I will certainly concede that you save this amount of mana, but I'm not sure that that amount of mana is truly significant unless you are in a long high pressure battle (in which case aoe is probably not your opening tactic) or you get a string of adds (which certainly CAN happen When Things Go Wrong™ but shouldn't be a common situation).

To be perfectly honest it is a rare scrum where Flyn runs out of mana. This generally only happens in extended boss fights or situations that involve gross overpulls or multiple chained adds. I literally eat on average about one to two mana pots per week! This includes both 5-man runs and raids with varying numbers of healers from one to three or more.

With that out of the way, I still don't know that I completely understand a few things you said...

The first thing is that you implied that with renew (first) and then shield that by the time 15 seconds are up (for weakened soul) the mage is still doing fine and the mobs are almost dead, if not already swimming with the fishes. Taking max rank shield and renew that is saving roughly (very rough numbers) 2000 hps. Maybe I have been in different situations then you but in my experience 2000 hps is nothing for a few mobs to tear down in well less than 15 seconds. By the time you hit cap (where these numbers match up to) a mage will probably have at least 4000 hps after they are buffed up and they can still die in less than 5 seconds if you are not careful. Renew simply does not heal fast enough to be much more than a small added buffer. Shields and Flash Heals are your only recourse (although renew should still be on at all times).

The thing that I am really confused about is this though:

If you pre-shield, then your mage doesn't get that first 2-3 "free" AoEs so the mobs aren't as hurt when the shield goes down so you are more likely to be required to shield again. With this method, I'm less likely to have to shield a second time and that saves me mana.

This is how I interpret this; I interpret it as you let the mage take a few hits, then shield so that you can heal them up while they are shielded. If you preshield them then they aren't taking any damage at the beginning and then when the shield drops they are and you have to wait to start healing then (as healing before this is pointless). At this point you don't want to shield again to conserve mana so you would have to hit them with spam flashes to keep them up until the mob dies...

What I would contend is that in any event that the shield might get torn down you are (incidentally intentionally) putting yourself against that 15-second weakened soul. You are conceding that you can't shield again in the next 15 seconds when things could go wrong. What I would say is this:

If you preshield (once again with a 5-10 second buffer) you don't have to heal for the first x seconds while the mob is trying to break down the shield. At worst you might want to prebuff a renew so that it is already ticking when the shield does go down. This means that you get 5-10+x seconds of mana regen before you need to start casting heals at all (your AOEer is protected by the shield and if your tank goes down in x find a new tank, I'm sure Gnolack can survive for about 5 seconds without dying except in some exceptional circumstances). This also has the added bonus of you generating zero hate until x seconds have passed, thereby reducing your chance of pulling aggro.

If you are specced as a true disc/holy priest then your regen over those 5-10+x seconds should get back most of the mana that you used to cast that initial shield. I would contend that any difference here is VERY RARELY going to be the difference between life and death. If it comes down to an emergency situation this at most the difference of one flash heal, most probably less than enough to cast an additional heal.

So in the long run I see the mana difference to be insignificant and as far as I can tell this is your main reason for doing it that way. The benefits to preshielding are enough to outweigh any potential mana savings IMHO: No threat generated from that first shield (and even renew if you precast it before engaging) and knowing that weakened soul will be gone in the case that you NEED to cast a second shield (whatever that reason may be). I will also say that if you are running with mages (which is assumed here) you will always have water. If you preshield prior to entering combat you can always drink for the first x seconds of the battle and I can almost certainly guarantee that those x seconds of drinking will regen the amount of mana you "lost" to casting that preshield. This will start your battle with full mana and a shield already up (and thus weakened soul ending sooner). Even though your method will be successful almost as often, I see no reason not to get into the habit of preshielding every time because it has that small extra measure of safety and no true downside.

Just my $0.02.

- mjdoom

Edit: Hah, my post got bloated anyway without quoting too much :P. Anyway, I'm all for open discussion of any priest tactics so any responses to this are more than welcome.

[Treesh]

because I assume Littledude and Sabramage have Improved Arcane explosion and won't be interrupted when AOEing with it.

LD does, but Sabramage doesn't yet (or at least the last time asked she didn't quite have the points put into it). This does make a difference on when to shield. As a result, Sabramage gets shielded sooner than LD does (unless I see him casting flamestrike or channeling blizzard).

I will certainly concede that you save this amount of mana, but I'm not sure that that amount of mana is truly significant unless you are in a long high pressure battle (in which case aoe is probably not your opening tactic) or you get a string of adds (which certainly CAN happen When Things Go Wrong™ but shouldn't be a common situation).

And these are the situations I use that tactic most. If LD or Sabramage is going to pull with AoE, then they get preshielded. Most of the time, things don't fall under the AoE pulling or the drawnout battles so it really doesn't matter which way I go since I've got a big enough mana pool and good enough mana regen.

I literally eat on average about one to two mana pots per week!  This includes both 5-man runs and raids with varying numbers of healers from one to three or more.

Still more mana pots than I drink. ;)

Even though your method will be successful almost as often, I see no reason not to get into the habit of preshielding every time because it has that small extra measure of safety and no true downside.
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Doing the same thing every time in every situation regardless of suitability of the tactics to the specific situation is simply lazy playing in my opinion (although I do play lazy like that myself :) ). It doesn't take much time to assess a situation and do it so you are covered when things go wrong.

Also, I don't get aggro by healing, whether I'm preshielding or not. I really don't know what other groups are doing so the priest gets aggro so frequently, but about the only times I ever get aggro with Aleri is if I heal GG when he's just trying to run through critters in the world (stupid reflexive action ;) ), a patrol comes up behind me so it sees me first, or there are simply so many critters around that they haven't all been hit with some kind of AoE aggro generator from someone other than me. So preshielding to avoid aggro is just as silly to me as not preshielding to save mana is to you. It basically comes out to be the same in the end. I'm not saying that not preshielding is the way to go in every situation. I'm simply trying to get some of the priests around who think of shielding as a "use all the time, everywhere on every class" skill to look at that tool in a different way.

There are situations where the timing of shielding is a difference between life and death for your mages. We were in (I think) Zul'Farrak and the plan was for Littledude to do an AoE pull so I preshielded him. It went down in a heartbeat and even with renews and spamming flash heals and reshielding, he died. A little while later we were in the same situation. I did manage to keep him alive with the preshielding technique, but I burned a lot of mana. A lot of mana because he was taking so much damage. With PITA patrols wandering around (I really hate having to constantly untoad or unstun people, stupid trolls), burning that much mana was not a pleasant thing so I thought of another way to keep Littledude alive and still be able to conserve mana. I tried it on the next similar pull we did and it worked to keep him very healthy and my mana pool healthy as well. It's also still working very well in our 4 manning of Sunken Temple. We are slightly overlevelled for it (52s and 53s in the group), but that's not too bad considering it's a 4 man rather than a 5 man group.

So yes, there are situations for both preshielding and not preshielding and it's up to the priest and his/her group to decide what works for them and when to do which. I personally like to try new tricks and new tactics for every new situation. If you can't adapt to changes, you'll end up dead in an MMORPG. The more tricks and tactics I learn now, the more ready I will be for any surprise changes to whatever class I am currently playing.

[Olon97]

Even better are mages who know to wait a few beats at the start of a fight to let the warrior build up a little aggro (especially on any elites) and gather the mobs before spamming aoe's.  Just a few second pause at the start of the fight makes a huge difference in the amount that I have to shield and heal.  Also, it allows secondary aoe'ers to set themselves up, too.  For example, shamans can drop aoe totems and hunters can get themselves setup for their volley (after the warrior shouts and gathers mobs to him/her).  If the mage waits a few beats before starting, then all the party's aoe power can fall all at once and kill mobs before they get a chance to beat on the mage too much.  I think the problem with many mages is that they mistakenly think that they are the party's *only* source of aoe and think they're going to pull all the aggro immediately anyway, so they think they might as well start spamming immediately.  But if the warrior has a little aggro built up, then the mage can spam a couple aoe's before pulling aggro, and of course the supporting aoe'ers do make a difference.

I love it when mages understand the benefit of warrior aggro on AoE pulls, but I've found most are convinced they have to start AoE pulls.

Some of the safest "AoE" pulls I've experienced were actually done without a mage or warlock in the party. If the warrior uses a combination of thundercap, demoralizing shout, piercing howl, whirlwind with a slow 2h, quick cleaves on alternating targets (when Whirlwind is not ready), and hopefully a thorns effect (gear, un-goro crystal, or druid buff), and the rest of the party continues to focus fire you can grind almsot any AoE pull down without anyone being in danger.

My favorite is the hybrid approach, where the warrior gets a head start, and then mages unload and end up only stealing the aggro on their final or next to final casts. They can basically let the warrior get down to a near half health and then save him. The healer barely needs to heal the warrior at all in this case. Sometimes to actually make this happen, I end up starting an AoE pull while the mages are still drinking (saying "go ahead adn finish drinking" first), or on a fast afk. :P

[MongoJerry]

My favorite is the hybrid approach, where the warrior gets a head start, and then mages unload and end up only stealing the aggro on their final or next to final casts. They can basically let the warrior get down to a near half health and then save him. The healer barely needs to heal the warrior at all in this case. Sometimes to actually make this happen, I end up starting an AoE pull while the mages are still drinking (saying "go ahead adn finish drinking" first), or on a fast afk. :P

Yep! You hit the nail on the head.