Butcher, Baker, or Candlestick Maker?

[Catlyn]

So ever since I was a wee small Elf-lass, I've been a skinner and a leatherworker... it just made sense. Make my own armour, collect skins to sell. My wares walked up to me, often trying to kill me (sometimes succeeding), but that's niether here nor there. And, when I got old enough, I went Dragonscale with the hopes of being able to make my own armour and make some money armouring other Hunters...

Then reality set in, and Dragonscale Leatherworking is just the most Unfun thing I've ever come across in a MMORPG crafting profession... the materials are way too hard to get, and the efficacy of the limited number of pieces that can be made is highly suspect.

Generally unfun and kind of depressing when I think about all the time and energy I put into it for such a lousy outcome. But, it got me thinking.

There's this guy in the Inn in Ironforge with a blue questionmark over his head... if you give him a stack of 200 Thorium Shells, he'll give you a stack of 200 Thorium Tipped Arrows (+5 DPS over Jagged Arrows). Thorium Shells sell for a gold a stack, and my quiver holds 16 stacks... ouch.

When I'm in an instance... and things are going bad... real bad... Oh god we're all going to die bad... I'm usually one of the last, if not the last person down... almost always well after it's evident that we're blowing up. I (even though I consistantly forget about it existing... but I'm getting better!) have Feign Death... so, when things are going way south, I can often survive the encounter, and, if I had a way to rez someone, I might be able to geatly reduce the pain of a wipe recovery...

So, I've been thinking about Ditching the Hundreds of Hours I've invested in the disappointing professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in an Role Playing sense, and picking up professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in the context of the Game that Blizzard's built... Namely, Mining and Engineering.

But I'm gunshy... Once bitten, and all that... am I going to find any more satisfaction with higher level Engineering than I did with higher level Leatherworking? And, if so, what's the difference between Goblin and Gnome Engineering? Would you do it if you were me?

Thanks, all;

[Raelynn]

So ever since I was a wee small Elf-lass, I've been a skinner and a leatherworker... it just made since. Make my own armour, collect skins to sell. My wares walked up to me, often trying to kill me (sometimes succeding), but that's niether here nor there. And, when I got old enough, I went Dragonscale with the hopes of being able to make my own armour and make some money armouring other Hunters...

Then reality set in, and Dragonscale Leatherworking is just the most Unfun thing I've ever come across in a MMORPG crafting profession... the materials are way too hard to get, and the efficacy of the limited number of pieces that can be made is highly suspect.

Generally unfun and kind of depressing when I think about all the time and energy I put into it for such a lousy outcome. But, it got me thinking.

There's this guy in the Inn in Ironforge with a blue questionmark over his head... if you give him a stack of 200 Thorium Shells, he'll give you a stack of 200 Thorium Tipped Arrows (+5 DPS over Jagged Arrows). Thorium Shells sell for a gold a stack, and my quiver holds 16 stacks... ouch.

When I'm in an instance... and things are going bad... real bad... Oh god we're all going to die bad... I'm usually one of the last, if not the last person down... almost always well after it's evident that we're blowing up. I (even though I consistantly forget about it existing... but I'm getting better!) have Feign Death... so, when things are going way south, I can often survive the encounter, and, it I had a way to rez someone, I might be able to geatly reduce the pain of a wipe recovery...

So, I've been thinking about Ditching the Hundreds of Hours I've invested in the disappointing professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in an Role Playing sense, and picing up professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in the context of the Game that Blizzard's built... Namely, Mining and Engineering.

But I'm gunshy... Once bitten, and all that... am I going to find any more satisfaction with higher level Engineering than I did with higher level Leatherworking? And, if so, what's the difference between Goblin and Gnome Engineering? Would you do it if you were me?

Thanks, all;
[right][snapback]77573[/snapback][/right]

I'm not real informed on the subject, but two people you can talk to are Pesmerga and Rothgar. Both have engineering experience.

[Raven Vale]

Gotta say I'm in the same boat , stupidly took Dragonscale , had it for quite some time now and made 1 item , the biggest waste of space ever . I enjoy leatherworking I just wish I could go back and pick tribal , at least it would benefit my rogue . Not sure about Engineering , I heard it was a bit of a money sink because mostly it will be only you that can use the items , or any other person with the engineering skill .
I just started an engineer and read through this first , it may or may not help . Good luck .

http://thecartel.org/Tradeskills/engi/intro.html

[Artega]

I dropped 286 Hammersmithing for Gnomish Engineering, and I have never looked back. I got almost no use out of Blacksmithing - I literally spent hundreds of gold raising it, and had maybe five pieces of equipment that I'd consider using to show for it.

Engineering has been vital to my ability to not only survive, but outright WIN uneven battles (2v1 and in some cases, 3v1.) Grenades can be thrown while moving, disorient (read: interrupt spells) for a sometimes-significant amount of time, and do a pretty significant amount of damage.

Gnomish Engineering brings me the Net-o-matic (which will see much more use once I run out of glue), which is great against anyone that attempts to run from me while Intercept is cooling down and/or Hamstring has worn off.

It also brings me the Shrink Ray, which is honestly more of a novelty item than anything else, but it can make a pretty significant difference (it can shrink you or the target for -250 Power, or grow you or the target for +250 Power, and those effects can also affect you party or the target's party, too) when it works the way you want it to.

More useful than anything else, however, is the Death Ray. I can truly reach out and touch someone now. I've heard of it critting for over 7,000 damage - that's instant death to ME, let alone a caster. With the cooldown reduction to a nice five minutes, it's something I'm not afraid to frequently use, too.

For a Hunter, though, I'd suggest Goblin Engineering (since we all know Goblins are way cooler than lame Gnomes.)

It brings the best of the explosives (including a bomb with an immense 10-yard range), and also allows you to make the Goblin Jumper Cables XL, which have a 50% chance of success, compared to the standard jumper cables' 20%.

Which path you take isn't a major decision, however. Most items made in both paths can be used by either engineer type, except the "ultimate" recipies for each side, which are Bind on Acquire - the Death Ray for Gnomish, and the Dragon Gun for Goblins. The Alarm-O-Bot and Jumper Cables XL may also be BoP, though I'm not certain on that.

[Quark]

I have been disappointed in the high end leatherworking too. Each side has its flaws. Tribal forces you to complete the Wild Leather quests, that take tons of time farming for scales. Elemental is the only leatherworking that requires you to farm things you can't skin. Dragonscale forces you to kill elites to gather materies.

If Vanish works better post-patch, I might have to consider Engineering for the jumper cables myself. For now, at least, I keep Elemental Leatherworking because it still has stuff people want. Particularly the Volcanic recipes help out Leather wearers when needing fire resist. I'd also like to get some Stormshroud pieces out there, as crit becomes almost a primary stat for end-game Rogues.

If dropping Elemental Leatherworking, I'd at least like to know there's someone else going Elemental so that others can grab the useful final products.

[Ruvanal]

Which path you take isn't a major decision, however.  Most items made in both paths can be used by either engineer type, except the "ultimate" recipies for each side, which are Bind on Acquire - the Death Ray for Gnomish, and the Dragon Gun for Goblins.  The Alarm-O-Bot and Jumper Cables XL may also be BoP, though I'm not certain on that.
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Gnome Engineering items
BoE - Gnomish Shrink Ray
BoE - Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector
BoP - Gnomish Goggles
BoE - Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt
BoE - Gnomish Rocket Boots
BoP - Gnomish Battle Chicken
BoE - Gnomish Mind Control Cap
BoP - Gnomish Death Ray
no bind- World Enlarger
??? - Gnomish Alarm-O-Bot

Goblin Engineering
BoE - Goblin Mortar (6 charges*)
BoP - Goblin Construction Hat
BoP - Goblin Mining Helmet
BoE - Goblin Rocket Boots
BoP - Goblin Bomb Dispenser
no bind- The Big One
BoP - Goblin Dragon Gun
BoE - Goblin Rocket Helmet
no bind- Goblin Jumper Cables XL

*The mortar can be recharged with Goblin skill: 'The Mortar: Reloaded'.

This list might be missing some items, but I think it covers the ones most looked for from both specialties.

[LavCat]

All of my characters are engineers (at least the four old enough to go to school). The only choice is Goblin or Gnomish, and the selection of a secondary profession.

For a hunter I would suggest mining and Goblin engineering. The thorium arrows are nice but you need a source of thorium for shells. A hunter can wear the Goblin Mining Hat. Making the shells is a great way to level engineering. Then decorate your new bow with a sniper scope. You might as well keep making them because the scopes sell for five to eight gold at the auction house.

If you were into guns, the engineer can make a lot of them. Impress your friends. Entertain your pet with a compact harvest reaper kit or an explosive sheep. (Alas, not a battle chicken, as that is Gnomish only.) The explosive sheep actually graze and chew grass, which makes me think it has to do with gas. Want more company? Summon your own mechanical dragonling. Need food for your pet in front of Scholomance or Stratholme, or inside the Sunken Temple? Fishing skill not high enough to catch fish in that pond? Engineering to the rescue!

In over you head? Bring out your deepdive helmet! Party wiped? They don't always work, but Fafner always carries cables. Saved at least one instance run. None of my characters have one, but you would be a party favorite with your own repair bot, I am sure.

You will need leather and leather items for engineering. Make up a supply before you switch.

For information, Tribade is a miner, Fafner is a weaponsmith, Baguette a tailor (and Tribade just brought home the mooncloth bag pattern for her last night from Stratholme). Roquefort, the youngest, is an enchanter.

[Treesh]

If dropping Elemental Leatherworking, I'd at least like to know there's someone else going Elemental so that others can grab the useful final products.
[right][snapback]77586[/snapback][/right]

Gnollguy's Taranna is going the elemental route with her leatherworking.

[Kevin]

I have been disappointed in the high end leatherworking too.  Each side has its flaws.  Tribal forces you to complete the Wild Leather quests, that take tons of time farming for scales.  Elemental is the only leatherworking that requires you to farm things you can't skin.  Dragonscale forces you to kill elites to gather materies.

If Vanish works better post-patch, I might have to consider Engineering for the jumper cables myself.  For now, at least, I keep Elemental Leatherworking because it still has stuff people want.  Particularly the Volcanic recipes help out Leather wearers when needing fire resist.  I'd also like to get some Stormshroud pieces out there, as crit becomes almost a primary stat for end-game Rogues.

If dropping Elemental Leatherworking, I'd at least like to know there's someone else going Elemental so that others can grab the useful final products.
[right][snapback]77586[/snapback][/right]

Yeah, I've got the speciality and have already learned a stormshroud piece I think. I was quite disappoint that the gloves you get right of the bat that have the heal spell on them are a 30 minute cooldown, that made them pretty much useless. I'm only at like 273 leatherworking skill but not only can I supply my own mats, but Aleri (Treesh's L56 priest) is a sknner and is feeding me stuff as well. So if you want to switch you have that safety net behind you.

[NotSoDarklord]

??? - Gnomish Alarm-O-Bot

No bind, and QUITE useless I might add :P

[Kevin]

Heh, I never repsonded to the initial question of the post.

I've often complained about the poor crafting in this game and I continue to do that. It is not robust at all and the rewards are not hight. I've noticed that leatherworking and blacksmithing both seem to have more benefit to lower level characters because you can generally get a marginal increase in stats from the crafted stuff over what you find or get as a quest reward. Of course if you have a guild that or other characters that give you money or items that you normally couldn't find at your level or would need a lot of luck to get the low level benefits of those professions become even less.

I'm a little better off with Gnolack in that the Enchanted Thorium pieces while taking some crazy stuff to make at least look wearable for a L60 (though I haven't looked at the really high end armors too much). Of course you need to get the top and bottom half of three different "books" and they only come out of scholo, BRS, Dire Maul, and strat. I've been lucky enough to have the top half of volume 1 and volume 3 fed to me. So I'm gonna be sticking with it. Oh, I thought those were BoP not BoE so I guess those aren't armorsmith only items. Wonder if there are any BoP armorsmith items then.

But engineering and alchemy both seem to offer so much more with potions and devices that can really sway the tide of a battle. Engineering gets even cooloer with target dummies getting improved in the next patch so that they look like they will be useful during a fight as well now with a taunt pulse right from the start (at least they never did much for my hunter when he's tried to use them before). Sure even if they only stay up one or two hits, that is that much more time that someone has to pull a mob off you, or that someone else isn't taking damage. The bombs now that they work right are very helpful when AoE is something you want to do. Heck I'm thinking about commisioning more EZ-throw for Gnolack to help with multi mob aggro a little and allow better use of AoE for other classes (if it allows them one more AoE hit before something peels that is a big deal).

So yeah, I don't think you would be hurting yourself to switch. Engineering, Alchemy, and Enchanting seem to be where most of the late game benefit is sitting as far as professions. I think if they added more BoP items or some requires leatherworking or requires armorsmithing to use items to help give some more value to those professions it would be nice, I'm not sure Dark Iron stuff is enough for armorsmiths either. :) Oh well.

[kandrathe]

Consider keeping your high level of skinning, and having us supply you with the mats. You can reach 200-225 just on copper, bronze, iron, rough, coarse, and solid ttone. I have a miner/skinner and I have probably 10 stacks of 20 bronze bars in the bank. I still am mining copper, tin, iron, and mithril.

Anyway, if you decide later that you'd rather mine than spend like 45s ea for Thorium Bars are at AH, then switching to mining is no more painful then.

[Artega]

The Enchanted Thorium pieces are inferior for their cost.

You can find (or make) better armor for the same - and sometimes less - cost.

The Ornate Adamantium Breastplate is easily the best plate chest you can have until you can get your hands on the Breastplate of the Chromatic Flight, and it's not hard to acquire, either. It has incredibly high Armor, a huge Stamina boost, AND a significant Defense boost, too. It's very difficult to beat :)

[KiloVictor]

So, I've been thinking about Ditching the Hundreds of Hours I've invested in the disappointing professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in an Role Playing sense, and picking up professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in the context of the Game that Blizzard's built... Namely, Mining and Engineering.
[right][snapback]77573[/snapback][/right]

Hunters make awesome miners. The ability to ride through the mobs and simply feign death at the node enables them to get in and out of the high-end mineral nodes faster than any other class. One of my regular crowd is a hunter skinner/miner, and he makes sick amounts of cash that way. Plus it keeps him in thorium-tipped arrows, as pointed out above.

Not sure that's what Blizzard intended by "living off the land" for a hunter, but they're awesome characters for farming minerals and leather. :)

Kv

[Quark]

Hunters make awesome miners. The ability to ride through the mobs and simply feign death at the node enables them to get in and out of the high-end mineral nodes faster than any other class.[right][snapback]78079[/snapback][/right]

Many classes have small things like this that really help the class farm. I believe druids and shaman can farm herbs in travelform, but can't mine. Rogues have a combination of Sprint, Stealth, and Vanish, to help them get passed mobs. As a Mage I've polymorphed mobs next to herbs, farmed them, then run away, thought that's slightly less utility than the others.

[Hedon]

I'm also considering taking engineering for my priestess.

I had tailoring/skinning so far, and while tailoring continues to be useful, skinning seems like waste as I rarely hunt any animals since I hit 60, because most of the time is spent in instances (when I go farming, I usally hunt the Legashi Sartyrs in Azshara for the felcloth).

Now the question arises: How expensive will it get to level engineering, without also picking up it's "supply profession" mining? Since I certainly don't want to ditch tailoring, that means I would have to rely on outside supplies for engineering, but I'm worried about plunging into a bottomless moneysink ;)

[Treesh]

Rogues have a combination of Sprint, Stealth, and Vanish, to help them get passed mobs.  As a Mage I've polymorphed mobs next to herbs, farmed them, then run away, thought that's slightly less utility than the others.
[right][snapback]78084[/snapback][/right]

I can't believe you forgot about sapping the people standing on your herbs, harvesting and then running. ;) Eth's had to be creative in some areas since she's almost always needed herbs from areas that are higher level than what she can safely quest in. :D

[Quark]

I can't believe you forgot about sapping the people standing on your herbs, harvesting and then running. ;)  Eth's had to be creative in some areas since she's almost always needed herbs from areas that are higher level than what she can safely quest in. :D
[right][snapback]78091[/snapback][/right]

Sorry, my Rogue gathers leather, so I'm forced to kill :)

You brought up a good point with Sap, though. Around the outside of Dire Maul, there's a bunch of Ogres randomly spread out. When walking your group to an instance, sap the ogres and no one in your party even gets stuck in combat. Assuming you have Improved Sap, you get to restealth and do it to another mob further down, too :)

[Brista]

Sorry, my Rogue gathers leather, so I'm forced to kill :)

I just had a notion that amused me

Find an enemy player grinding. Wait till they kill their mob. Sap them, skin the mob, and run away. Restealth if needed and wait for them to kill another mob. Rinse and repeat

[Brista]

So, I've been thinking about Ditching the Hundreds of Hours I've invested in the disappointing professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in an Role Playing sense, and picking up professions that make the most sense for a Hunter in the context of the Game that Blizzard's built... Namely, Mining and Engineering.[right][snapback]77573[/snapback][/right]

Count me as another engineering fan. I don't see why you would want mining on a level 60 character. I suggest engineering and alchemy, just buy the materials you need, you can probably arrange ongoing supplies with miners and herbalists. The ability to make your own arcanite would be massive on an engineer. I'm pretty sure that your revenue from your professions would exceed the value of the materials. Materials are worth more in the game economy while people are skilling up but at the end-game it's payback time. Even if they're not you'll be a lot more effective killing high end stuff for the AH and then buying copper than running around Durotar mining copper nodes

On Test I got to play in the new Alterac Valley battleground. There's an awful lot of rich thorium veins and herbs I'd never heard of in the valley so expect prices for them to tumble. Your end-game materials are about to get a lot cheaper

Goblin engineering is stronger than gnome engineering since you can go goblin and buy the stuff you're missing once, where a gnome would keep having to restock expensively. Just go goblin and buy a net-o-matic off someone else and rejoice in your ability to replenish your mortar and your endless supply of The Big One

Another thing in favour of engineering is the sheer comedy value. I had an entire enemy raid single me as their main target after bombarding them with a string of explosive sheep, I've had an entire friendly raid go "huh? what just happened, after a mind control cap backfire" (and no I still don't know quite what happened, but from my perspective everyone on both sides was hostile for 30 seconds) and I've stood there and laughed at a pally ganker with immune immune immune flashing up at her as she attacked me :)

Engineering is probably better on a pvp server where it helps, it helps, it goes horribly wrong is perfectly acceptable when everyone's dying a lot anyway but not something you'd want to introduce into a high level instance. Unless your name's Leeroy

As for alchemy I find that on my alchemists I almost always have buff potions and the top healing potion I can make whereas on my non-alchemists, even though I could buy potions at the AH or send some from an alt, I almost never have them. That to me makes alchemy very worthwhile. It may be less crucial for less lazy and disorganised people but I strongly suspect that whenever you see someone with 6 potion buffs active you're looking at an alchemist

The other nice thing about alchemy is that you don't need to put much effort in. You get useful potions at under 100 skill which you can use at the end-game. From 100-200 skill you get some very strong potions indeed