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06-12-2005, 12:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2005, 12:51 AM by Mithrandir.)
Doc,Jun 11 2005, 07:38 PM Wrote:You don't fully agree with me... yet.
Give it time. One day, you will. Now, or later, either way, no worries on my part.
BTW, the Patriot Act is undergoing it's third revision. If rumour is to be believed, it will gived GWB a few extra terms in office to complete his work on the war on terror. He has a full Republican majority backing him, and a senate full of hawks.
Rumours are not always to be believed, but this is worrying. Alarming even, when one thinks of the implications.
This old man does not like which way the wind is blowing.
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...ack=1&cset=true
For those of you who don't want to register: Basically the house Judiciary Committee Chairman decided he didnt like the Democrats discussing the renewal of the Patriot Act, so he had the mikes turned off and left.
Yay.
--Mith
I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.
Jack London
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Mithrandir,Jun 11 2005, 07:50 PM Wrote:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...ack=1&cset=true
For those of you who don't want to register: Basically the house Judiciary Committee Chairman decided he didnt like the Democrats discussing the renewal of the Patriot Act, so he had the mikes turned off and left.
Yay.
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RENEWAL? Is that what they are calling it? RENEWAL my brown ass. It's a revision with some major additions. Seriously SCARY additions.
Renewal? WTF?
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Doc,Jun 12 2005, 12:38 AM Wrote:Alarming even, when one thinks of the implications.
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The Patriot Act, ironically, is one of the least "patriotic" pieces of legislation passed in this country.
Personal freedoms are the single most stressed thing in the Constitution. The apathy that occurs when they are taken away is disturbing. There's is a difference, a sometimes hazy difference but a difference nonetheless, between taking away freedoms and protecting the public. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said something like:
"Those who are willing to give up their freedom for safety are not deserving of those freedoms in the first place."
Think of what Jefferson, Franklin, Adams etc would think if they saw the country's governement in its current state.
"Just as individuals are born, mature, breed and die, so do societies, civilizations and governments."
Muad'Dib - Children of Dune
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ima_nerd,Jun 11 2005, 08:01 PM Wrote:The Patriot Act, ironically, is one of the least "patriotic" pieces of legislation passed in this country.
Personal freedoms are the single most stressed thing in the Constitution. The apathy that occurs when they are taken away is disturbing. There's is a difference, a sometimes hazy difference but a difference nonetheless, between taking away freedoms and protecting the public. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said something like:
"Those who are willing to give up their freedom for safety are not deserving of those freedoms in the first place."
Think of what Jefferson, Franklin, Adams etc would think if they saw the country's governement in its current state.
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Examine Nazi Germany and look at the USA right now. We have created a public boogyman, the propaganda machine is running night and day, and more and more personal freedoms are being suspended in the name of security.
Did I just Godwin this thread? Well fark me.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 1,173
Threads: 66
Joined: Feb 2004
Doc,Jun 11 2005, 08:04 PM Wrote:Examine Nazi Germany and look at the USA right now. We have created a public boogyman, the propaganda machine is running night and day, and more and more personal freedoms are being suspended in the name of security.
Did I just Godwin this thread? Well fark me.
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"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946)
Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia and Hitler's designated successor
The second in command of the Third Reich
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Chesspiece_face,Jun 11 2005, 09:56 PM Wrote:"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946)
Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia and Hitler's designated successor
The second in command of the Third Reich
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:o
Oh dear. I know of that quote, wanted to quote it, but could not think of it word for word.
Worrying... Isn't it.
Even stranger is the fact that the Bush family had strong ties with the Nazis long ago.
How easy it is to slip into a facist police state. Arouse the fervour of the people and they think they do their country a service by blindly obeying.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Doc,Jun 11 2005, 10:13 PM Wrote:Even stranger is the fact that the Bush family had strong ties with the Nazis long ago.
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So did IBM - I smell extra super secret conspiracy.
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06-12-2005, 05:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2005, 05:32 AM by Occhidiangela.)
Edited due to stupidity.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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06-12-2005, 05:31 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2005, 05:32 AM by Occhidiangela.)
Yes, Doc, fark you.  :P Cookie cutters suck at making pie. How about we approach this American Pie for what it is, a peculiarly American process, and not stoop to idiotic analogies.
Guess what: Bush is a German name. If this is news to you
WAKE UP!
Nimitz is also a German name. Clinton is a British name. Kenedy is an Irish name. Carter is an English name.
It doesn't take a conspiracy to make bad government: just dim witted citizens.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 957
Threads: 21
Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Jun 12 2005, 01:38 PM Wrote:BTW, the Patriot Act is undergoing it's third revision. If rumour is to be believed, it will gived GWB a few extra terms in office to complete his work on the war on terror.
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Funny, reminds me of a Pete statement back prior to the war on (in? :P ) Iraq "If he is lying about WMD then he will have hell to pay from the American public". Hell = getting more votes? :blink:
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whyBish,Jun 12 2005, 12:54 AM Wrote:Funny, reminds me of a Pete statement back prior to the war on (in? :P ) Iraq "If he is lying about WMD then he will have hell to pay from the American public". Hell = getting more votes? :blink:
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The Democrats were morons. They could have run a baked potato (without bacon and chives) against Bush and been more successful. They passed up on a golden opportunity to nail Bush to the wall when he had egg all over his face from the war in Iraq. The apathy of Americans was rather pathetic, but they also didn't have much to motivate and inspire them when it's either "The Guy Who Bombed Some Place I Will Never Visit" or "Captain Stoneface McGeewizz".
But I know I'm beating a dead horse here, so I digress.
Ah well, too bad Badnarik didn't win.
--Mith
I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.
Jack London
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
We should all know IBM made the counting machines that allowed for efficient body extermination at the camps.
That's no conspiricy.
The whole Bush Nazi thing though, that really is interesting to read about. The family invested a lot of money into the Nazi party, and, when things got sour, they helped funnel and filter money out of the Nazi party to hide it away in other places, and a lot of the physical wealth was handled by them as well, paintings, gold fillings ripped from Jewish teeth, all sorts of silverware, etc. They acted as a sort of clearing house for stolen goods.
Just an interesting read, that's all.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 6,430
Threads: 204
Joined: Feb 2003
whyBish,Jun 11 2005, 11:54 PM Wrote:Funny, reminds me of a Pete statement back prior to the war on (in? :P ) Iraq "If he is lying about WMD then he will have hell to pay from the American public". Hell = getting more votes? :blink:
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I said something similar, and have been confounded by the outcome. Pete's comments were more cynical than that, in that he thought that Pres Bush would get away with it. Looks like he was right.
It didn't help that the Dems refused to re-evaluate their core platform and accentuated the urbanization gap. For what it's worth, I had quite a few friends who voted for Bush in 2000 who were vehemently anti Bush in 2004. Their dissatisfaction was that he had betrayed Conservatism. Their grievances included the border issue, failure to be strong on illegal immigration, the Patriot Act, the deficit problem, and a few others elements of Buchananist Conservatism. Their disgust with the "men behind the curtain" was palpable.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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