Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers

[MongoJerry]

Based on the amount of discussion . . . probably not.  :D

Back, thy vile demon temptor who wouldst spread thy black plague of despair on our fair community!

(OK, I have no clue how one should talk on a role-playing server. A small group of us had fun adventuring together as a party of Orks in the beta, though, and acted out lots of Orkish things).

[Tal]

Well, jeez!  I just did Horde, because the Amazon Basin was doing horde with their PvP, and I figured we could hook up with them and use them as a resource.  If enough people want to play alliance PvP, I would be fine with that.  Let's pick a server and start forming up!

Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server?  We never hear any discussions about that here.  Is there any interest in that?
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I might be persuaded to spend a bit more time on another server if it were alliance. :)

[Occhidiangela]

Back, thy vile demon temptor who wouldst spread thy black plague of despair on our fair community!

(OK, I have no clue how one should talk on a role-playing server.  A small group of us had fun adventuring together as a party of Orks in the beta, though, and acted out lots of Orkish things).
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"Starest thou into yon swinging, shiny, silver spoon, varlet. Thine eyelids droop most heavily, thine lips do sag, and thou travelest now into the land of dreams . . ."

Occhi

[Mirajj]

Something I haven't understood for the longest time was the animosity between those who play on PvP and those who play on PvE. I am not a "carebear" nor am I a "warbear".

What I like is the ability to play the game as I like, when I like. I prefer to match my wits against the computer for now. To me, there is tons of content that I've not explored yet, and will have a great time exploring, at my pace and not at the whim of some Horde or Alliance players.

I have a feeling that I'll give battlegrounds a try, and see what I think. From what I hear, I'll enjoy the Warsong Gulch one quite a bit. I am also very much looking forward to the raids that are being planned on the Stormrage server. I am not anti-PvP, but I do only want to engage in it when I feel like it, instead of at the whim of anyone who happens to be on the same server as me.

Apparently to some folk, this makes me a "lesser gamer" than they are, somehow...

[Bolty]

I actually decided on starting on Stormrage because of your anti-PvP points.  However, I am not playing on Tich as well because I realized that you were wrong.

You said that an honor system would "never be implemented."  :blush:

I forgive you.
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I assume you meant "now" instead of "not," right?

Zippyy, for shame, quoting me out of context! I did say that an honor system would never be implemented - a TRUE honor system. About 2 weeks after the game came out, Blizzard stated that they would not have a dishonor system (as stated in the WoW manual itself, you can look it up) ever put into the game.

A system that encourages the slaughter of players without discouraging lame gankings is not an "honor" system. It's a "grief" system.

I don't get offended by being told I'm wrong, so take my next question into consideration that I'm honestly inquisitive: where am I wrong? Take my old server comparison post I made just as the game was being released. It's a long dissertation of what I'd found after my entire beta experience playing for months each on Normal and PvP servers. What draws you to PvP now? I'd like to know, honestly, and remember that a part of me really does like PvP servers for the benefits they provide - a more exciting gaming experience - but the drawbacks of getting creamed by players I have no chance whatsoever of fighting back against will continue to deter me.

-Bolty

[Roane]

Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server?  We never hear any discussions about that here.  Is there any interest in that?
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/thread detour mode on

Some people know that I've been spending a lot of time on Cenarion Circle, actually, because I really prefer RP servers. I think I would even if I wasn't an RPer, just because there are less idiots to deal with (not none, and the drama is higher to compensate, but you learn to live with that after RPing online for more than ten years).

I'd been thinking about extending an invitation to the people here in general, because I know you're solid players and I think the CC Horde community really appreciates that kind of thing. I'm in a nice guild there. We stay in character in guild chat, unless we do any of the little tags to indicate we're talking out of character. However, the guild is actually pretty light on the RP. (Being IC for them mostly means not talking about stats directly without indicating it's OOC.)

The Horde community on Cenarion Circle is the best developed faction based community I've seen on any server (though I haven't investigated PvP servers, to be fair). There are chat channels that the majority of the population logs in to for faction wide RP, faction wide OOC chatter, and faction wide defense. The "Honor" system has put a little bit of a dent in the defense efforts, because no one likes to be HK fodder, but it's still really really nice.

If anyone feels like starting up over there, let me know and I'll try to help you get situated if I can. Alternately, I have a few low level characters on the Alliance side on that same server, if someone wanted to start a Lurker guild there. I don't think quite as well of the Alliance community there as a whole, but there are some real bright spots regardless.

/thread detour mode off

I think I'm one of the few that's really interested in playing on an RP server. I play on Stormrage as much as I do only because I really enjoy playing with the lot of you. I'd probably have tried a PvP server, much as I don't like them, if the majority of you had started there.

[Boutros]

Mongo was left in a guild that was Neriad and "a few others" - not a fun thing
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I've never been so insulted. I may be carrying a few extra pounds but it's still impolite to refer to me in the plural! :angry:

Plus I'm plenty fun.

[Kevin]

Treesh and I have our warrior twins on Cenarion Circle, little gnome girls. :) I've got a NE rogue over there as well.

A lot of my time on Stormrage is mostly because of the good people and the ease of getting a good group. :) I still prefer horde, but too many people here seem to really prefer alliance and I'm spread thin on time already with all my alts. :) It's a social game and I'm actually a relatively shy and reserved person at least until I get to know people. So I follow the herd a bit, even though I tried to start a bigger one on Terenas as well.

[LavCat]

Well, jeez!  I just did Horde, because the Amazon Basin was doing horde with their PvP, and I figured we could hook up with them and use them as a resource.  If enough people want to play alliance PvP, I would be fine with that.  Let's pick a server and start forming up!

Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server?  We never hear any discussions about that here.  Is there any interest in that?
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When we had the original discussion what server(s) to play on I suggested we play on a role-playing server, but it was not the most popular idea!

I'd love to play with everyone else, but my characters languish on Tichondrius because I don't care for playing horde and I had the unfortunate falling out on Stormrage with the guild. I'm not unsocial, really.

[Zippyy]

Not lesser, per se. Just more carebear-ish. You carebear. :wub:


But seriously, don't mind 'em. They're just the kids who belong on BNet.

[Zippyy]

I don't get offended by being told I'm wrong, so take my next question into consideration that I'm honestly inquisitive: where am I wrong?
[right][snapback]79091[/snapback][/right]

Aha! A challenge!

Here is your most grievous error: "All too often you'll find yourself on the short end of a long stick..."

How, exactly, does a long stick have short ends? :blink:

[kandrathe]

You and I see eye to eye, but then again we have the same approach to the game. Were we care-free high school or college kids with just the responsibilities of 4-5 hours of classes and a few hours of homework each day, well then we would have capped 2 or 3 60's by now on a PVP server, and completed all the end game content to boot. :-)

Seriously, though. When you have only a few hours per day to try to accomplish something like questing, then you really don't want it interrupted by griefers. If that is "carebear" then so be it. I wouldn't be nearly as far as I am if I were not an insomniac!

[Sabra]

I'm actually a relatively shy and reserved person at least until I get to know people.

At which point, I believe, the herb dancing begins. ;)

[Drasca]

then you really don't want it interrupted by griefers
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Actually, the interruptions are half the fun. Now that PvP is rewarded, you'll likely be defended when requesting help and submitting enemy locations and be able to go on the attack--and be rewarded for it. Sure, you'll never be an officer, but you'll be able to obtain the very useful rank 2 trinket.

In addition, griefing simply takes different forms in PvE, not necessarily all that much less. Due to pvp flag rules, you might not get defenders, or be able to defend your friends and NPC questers. If attacking faction npc flags for pvp, then at least that griefing tactic is gone. . . but there are others.

IIRC, there are graveyards very near every wind rider landing spot in contested areas. Also, unless you turn to be a huge nuisance, you aren't likely to be camped for very long due to diminishing return on contribution points. That said, I have a hated enemies list, and certain classes like to camp me because I'm a warlock. Luckily there are always folk out to kill your griefers because they're out for contribution points too.

Finally, you'll eventually find that the PvE content eventually gets... easy, but there's near limitless PvP that doesn't require as much commitment. You can always play escort to a lower level, and be meaningful, at high levels. Rather than just making the quest easy for them, you're defending them from any potential attackers.

It may not be your cup of tea, but its honestly not what you think.

Grief? They can't for long. They'll be hunted down.

EDIT: Oh, and about grouping. Yes you're more likely to group and gather together for quests for mutual safety. That's how it is on PvP servers. You don't solo everything... in fact some of these outdoor quests are meant to be grouped. Finding a pickup group for such quests can be a very rewarding experience too. I've made many friends from such action. Feel encouraged to do so, in addition to need. Socialize with folk outside your guild and bring the good ones in for later party events. Its a lot more eye-opening than playing with the same people and classes all the time.


Say Mongo, What 'Orcish' things did you do? Bag a night elf and toss'em out a BB ship? We've got some serious pirates in our server aiming for red admiral's hat.

[kandrathe]

Well, jeez!  I just did Horde, because the Amazon Basin was doing horde with their PvP, and I figured we could hook up with them and use them as a resource.  If enough people want to play alliance PvP, I would be fine with that.  Let's pick a server and start forming up!

Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server?  We never hear any discussions about that here.  Is there any interest in that?
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Zippyy was asking about Tich usage in the GC on Stormrage the other day. Frankly, I decided one day when Stormrage was on the fritz to start a character on Tich. I found the lurker channel and did the greets and there was occasionally someone else chatting, but no responses to me. Over the next couple days I worked my undead mage "Malencolie" up to level 5 and there she has stayed. I don't think I was invited into the Lounging Lurkers yet. I conciously chose Stormrage in February because it had a critical mass. If it had been a PvP server, I still would have followed the herd just because (as we all know) it is better to play with people who have a clue.

But since then, I've been committed to primarily one Stormrage character and her supporting cast. Even my experience on Stormrage with sometimes 20-30 lurkers on simultaneously is, that I've fallen in between most of the others. And I know there are a few, like Trispal, NightSilver or Trembal, who are now in the same boat I am in. Many smaller, many larger, but no one who needs to do the quests you need to do. Some of us have formed small cliques who mostly party exclusively with each other. And, I find now that I fall into that "if only I could get to XX level, then I could be invited to the party" thinking. I think I was late enough starting (Feb) and moved slow enough now for most people's alts to almost catch me.

But then, possibly, by the time I get to 60 all the current 60's will have completed there 5 man runs in Scholomance, or UBRS, or BRD and have moved on to other things. I hope not.

and ...

<whisper> I secretly play RP on Silver Hand sometimes when the others are down. </whisper> But I'm not committed to that server and the 3 characters there are small (10,12,14) and replaceable.

[Olon97]

As someone who doesn't enjoy being griefed or griefing, I have been extremely happy with Tichondrius. About 98% of my outdoor playtime has been uninterrupted by players of the other faction, and the number of times I have passed someone by / been passed by far outnumbers the times I've been "ganked". I hear stories of PvE people waiting for an hour to turn in a quest because the NPC is being killed to lure out PvP flagged defenders, and I suspect I'm better off on a PvP server despite my "carebear" nature. Of course, when someone does choose to kill me, I find it helps to take a detached attitude (no money lost, no durability lost, 1 minute walk and I'm on my way? no biggie).

Just a thought, but would it make sense to lower the Lurker flag on Tich? I'm quite certain those who remain (Boutros) would be more than welcome in the Basin. For those non-capped (I have seen others besides Boutros in /lurkers at times), it would potentially make grouping easier.

Being in a guild with sufficient numbers for low level questing (and sometimes even end-game raiding) is a nice safety blanket over spending 90%+ of one's time in pickup groups. Not that I don't enjoy a good pickup group now and then, but a pool of ~500 characters you know you can rely on is nice to have.

[Boutros]

Just a thought, but would it make sense to lower the Lurker flag on Tich? I'm quite certain those who remain (Boutros) would be more than welcome in the Basin. For those non-capped (I have seen others besides Boutros in /lurkers at times), it would potentially make grouping easier.
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Way ahead of you. :D

Yet another Lurker guilty of foulest treachery.

[Brista]

Something I haven't understood for the longest time was the animosity between those who play on PvP and those who play on PvE.  I am not a "carebear" nor am I a "warbear".

What I like is the ability to play the game as I like, when I like. I prefer to match my wits against the computer for now. To me, there is tons of content that I've not explored yet, and will have a great time exploring, at my pace and not at the whim of some Horde or Alliance players.

I have a feeling that I'll give battlegrounds a try, and see what I think. From what I hear, I'll enjoy the Warsong Gulch one quite a bit. I am also very much looking forward to the raids that are being planned on the Stormrage server. I am not anti-PvP, but I do only want to engage in it when I feel like it, instead of at the whim of anyone who happens to be on the same server as me.

Apparently to some folk, this makes me a "lesser gamer" than they are, somehow...
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I think it originates from a number of things

- people came from different backgrounds, coop pve games generate different cultures to pvp fragfests

- there was probably forum competition for developer attention

- there have almost certainly been conflicting interests. For instance in wow it's hard to see how they could beef up defensive-specced warriors to be competitive in pvp without hugely over-powering then in pve.

- there is in most mmo communities I've seen a fair amount of "the world revolves around me" thinking. There are players out there who get cross when any change is made which doesn't directly benefit them

- it's macho bullsh*t. I still find the concept of machismo in these games utterly bizarre but without question it's a huge part of many players' gestalt. Beating someone in these games is for some players a validation of their masculinity. Why it seems so bizarre to me is the notion that a 13 year old couch potato proves his masculinity by beating another player, quite possibly an adult, with a cartoon character. I suppose it isn't innately more illogical than 2 million people watching 22 guys kick a football around a pitch


It only matters if you let it bother you. Stupid arguments (like "I pwned you, so you suck") only appeal to stupid people. I doubt the argument will ever end between pvp and pve players since it relates to some archetypal rite of passage that is highly emotive and to a large extent subconscious.

Fwiw I consider myself both a carebear and a warbear and enjoy helping other players and enjoy killing reds. It's entertaining stuff. However, it's the things I do for my family, for my friends, for my community and in my career that generate my self-esteem, not what my cartoon alter ego does ;)

[Bolty]

I've never been so insulted. I may be carrying a few extra pounds but it's still impolite to refer to me in the plural!&nbsp; :angry: [right][snapback]79115[/snapback][/right]

I hope you're kidding, but in case you're not, I was referring to the fact that for the longest time Neriad was capped at 60 and there was nobody even close to him in level in the guild. That's a lonely situation for any player.

-Bolty

[kandrathe]

Actually, the interruptions are half the fun.

But, you missed or ignored the first part. When you have a two hour chunk of time that, for example, want to skill up some mining in Charred Vale, and complete the harpy killing quests. How long would it take to get a group together? It's hard enough sometimes to mine or pick herbs in some contested places. I can imagine how fun it might be to be ganked while gathering. It just makes me tingle to think of corpse walking to Charred Vale repeatedly.

I think PvP servers are fine, if you readily could group up to accomplish things and have your buddies watch your back while gathering. But, what I was getting at was for those of us with small blocks of time PVE suits our needs better, and we can just go and accomplish some quests without harrassment.