Raiding 101

[Mirajj]

Alright, I really enjoyed getting the ten Lurkers together to bring down Teremus. It was quite a neat sight, to go from a chance comment in guild chat to getting 10 lvl 60 Lurkers together in roughly 10 minutes to bringing the big guy down.

So..."that time" has come. The second-ish batch of folk have made it to 60, and we've the next 'crop' right on the cusp. Many are early to mid-50's. So where to next? From what I've seen, we can practice both PvE and PvP style. For PvE, I was thinking that there are plenty of monsters around the world that need more than a party of five. Teremus, Volchan (the Giant Elite in Burning Steppes, IIRC), Blightcaller, the Crimson Courier. All of those areas with elite dragonkin...they must be guarding something...we could go see what. PvP...well, there are plenty of Horde places for PvP, or even Battlegrounds.

A comment over the raid channel today was "This was like a mini-Onyxia raid". I have to admit, I was very pleased to see how the raid went down, and how the Lurkers performed. I was very impressed to see, without any prompting, the ridge edge spread out of the ranged attackers. We got the drake into the dip, GG, Sharanna, and Ramala kept it there, and then looking around the rim of the crater-like place, I didn't see more than 2 Lurkers standing together, so that if the drake broke, it'd only hurt a couple of us.

I'm still not sure how it broke and picked on Tahapenes, but GG and Sharanna did an excellent job getting aggro back quickly enough, without dragging the beast out of anyone else's range, it seemed to me. Aleri was quite on the ball as well, being the main healer in a group of 9, and not losing a single soul (Except for that gold farmer, but he deserved it... *G*)

So it seems to me that we are 'there'. We have reached the area and mass where we can begin raiding, even if it's "only" 10-20 man ones, to start out. We need some polishing, but we are very, very good players which ought to work in our advantage. ;) We also have some very experienced raiding folk among us who we can turn to for pointers and tips. So that conversations like mine and Tal's don't re-occur.

Tal - "There's Loch! Invite him! Convert to a raid!"
Me (as I was group/party leader) - "Sure!....Um...How?"

Yes, my only other ever raid experience was Blightcaller, and I was just along for the DPS and the kill.

So let's open this thread up to some raid specific tips and whatnot.

For instance, I keep hearing about CTRaidAssist. I've only seen screenies of it, and it looks to me like it basically magnifies the little raid screen in the social window. Now...is this really important for every member of the raid to have, or just for the raid leader/healing crew?

I also had to promote some people, so they could use CTRA. What does that promotion do/mean, and why can't they use CTRA without it?

There is virtually no information about raids in the WoW manual, so filll us in with your experience. What do we need to know before we start up raiding?

Some other things I thought about at work tonight, mostly involving group composition/tasks. Who does what? I mean, I'm familiar with an MT's role, somewhat knowledgable about an MA's role, and know what the healer's tasks are...but only in a 5 man setting. How does the 5 man move to the 40? Does a 40 man raid need only a single MT? If they have a couple more warriors, do those ones stand back so that they can charge in if the main falls, and become the new main? Would having a 5man group full of just healers be a good idea, if they all had CTRA and could see everyone's health so that they didn't have to be grouped with them? Is there a dedicated "healer protection 5man"?

Is it just everyone firing on the MT's target after s/he's locked it down while the healers heal like crazy? Who gets to/should be in melee range, and should no one but the MT expect a heal, and thus they should be prepared to heal themselves, by way of pots/bandages.

Let's get the ball rolling on the theoretical raid discussion, what's worked and what hasn't, so when we reach the practical stage, we have a good idea of what to try and what to avoid doing.

[Treesh]

Aleri was quite on the ball as well, being the main healer in a group of 9, and not losing a single soul (Except for that gold farmer, but he deserved it... *G*)
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The pallies. After I ran out of mana from healing GG, they picked up the slack. While my mana was regenerating, it was just a case of bandage the ranged folks right after an AoE pulse went off. But the pallies healing GG when I was out is really what made it run smoothly.

For raiding, I'm either going to have to respec Aleri to boost my mana pool and efficiency (which I really would rather avoid since then I wouldn't actually be playing Aleri, I'd just be playing a straight up heal bot) or get more gear to increase my mana pool. My mana lasts fine as long as I'm not constantly casting, but in the raids and even 5 man groups, I have to heal too frequently if there is any elemental/magic damage floating around and I just run through my mana and can't regen. There's also tightening up my mana efficiency even more when I'm healing, but it's getting tougher and tougher to squeeze out every ounce of healing as I can from as little mana usage as possible. There's still wiggle room though that I can tighten up.

[Hillary]

The pallies.  After I ran out of mana from healing GG, they picked up the slack.  While my mana was regenerating, it was just a case of bandage the ranged folks right after an AoE pulse went off.  But the pallies healing GG when I was out is really what made it run smoothly.

For raiding, I'm either going to have to respec Aleri to boost my mana pool and efficiency (which I really would rather avoid since then I wouldn't actually be playing Aleri, I'd just be playing a straight up heal bot) or get more gear to increase my mana pool.  My mana lasts fine as long as I'm not constantly casting, but in the raids and even 5 man groups, I have to heal too frequently if there is any elemental/magic damage floating around and I just run through my mana and can't regen.
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Okay, here's where I go on my priestly rant.

I LOVE MY SPIRIT GEAR!

I know Skan thinks it's a waste of a stat and he makes some good arguments that lend credence to his opinion, but from my experience (going from int gear to spirit gear) mana regen trumps actual larger mana pool every time for a healer. Griz wears a combination of devout and mana regen gear, which (especially if you're stuck in a situation where you're healing for 9 people. My goodness) keeps her mana way up. Darian will back me up here when I say that Griz rarely runs out of mana. True, she's a Holy/Dis priest and basically made that way, but the gear is the real winner here.

A few suggestions (of some gear I either have or want to go back and get):

Do a tribute run and try and get that robe that regens 10 mana per tic.

The baroness in Strath drops gloves that do 6 mana per tic.

I have a 20 int headpiece that regens 5 mana per tic.

Plus a whole *load of high spirit devout pieces, and I'm good to go. I don't believe any of these items (devout not included, substitute mooncloth items until the devout comes) are incredibly rare, so you should have a fairly easy time getting them.

That's my 2 cents. I'm going to go eat a taco now.

[Tal]

If the Lurkers are serious about any kinds of raids we will need to have some commitment to doing so from more than just a few people. We will also need to equip some of our more important members better. Gnolack as MT has pretty good armor and weapons but its time to kick it up a notch. Its also come to my attention that Aleri hasn't had a useful equipment upgrade in quite awhile. Getting gear for her is also pretty important if not only in the group setting but in a sense of accomplishment. It sucks doing a instance and not getting anything out of it by the end.

We also need to clear out some of the new 60's quest logs and bring folks up to speed on things like the Onyxia key, etc. I know that Bolty has had the Windsor escort on his log forever - from what I understand it will have to wait for a couple of weeks until he gets back from his honeymoon. After that we need to bring him up to speed as well. Folks need to start using the "What we need thread" and also start posting threads in the forums - the only way I can be there is if I clear things with the wife first and pay my dues. If its spur of the moment or too late in the evening don't necessarily count on a half-assed paladin tank or a dps focused warrior to join you. :) Given enough notice and I can be there provided its not a late start time. :)

Is it just everyone firing on the MT's target after s/he's locked it down while the healers heal like crazy? Who gets to/should be in melee range, and should no one but the MT expect a heal, and thus they should be prepared to heal themselves, by way of pots/bandages.[right][snapback]79343[/snapback][/right]

In a formal raid setting this is answered by how many folks can heal themselves versus how many main healers. I handled my own heals with Aleri hitting me with renews afaik yesterday. I've been in raids where I was the tank of my group and had a dedicated priest who healed me. I've been in raids where I was named Main Assist (who was supposed to handle pulling o.O) and was also required to heal myself because my priest wasn't interested in keeping someone who could heal themselves alive. Needless to say the raid would have gone badly if our MT hadn't been an absolute aggro BEAST who pulled everything off me lickedty split. ;) Big 40 man raids usually have a healer in each group and a team of five who heal in rotation on the MT though.

Let's get the ball rolling on the theoretical raid discussion, what's worked and what hasn't, so when we reach the practical stage, we have a good idea of what to try and what to avoid doing.
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Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooy Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeenkkkkinnnss!

[Treesh]

I LOVE MY SPIRIT GEAR! 
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Growing up, Aleri absolutely loved her spirit gear and when I only have to keep Gnolack healthy against physical damage, there's nothing that ccould outlast us. However, throw in magic damage or elemental damage and I burn right through my mana because I don't have the 5 seconds between casting to even start the regen going. NSD keeps telling me my gear doesn't suck (probably because the nice things I have all come from him with the exception of the necklace we got yesterday ;) ), but I have neither the regen nor the large mana pool with the gear I have on. I don't have a whole lot of stamina either. And I just simply do no get useful cloth drops in instances. You mention Strat and Dire Maul for getting the drops. I went on a strat run. The only piece of cloth to drop (that was even worth looking at for anyone) was the devout skirt from the Baron (which the other priest won). I went into Dire Maul for a Tribute run and wiped. My gear isn't even good enough to go into the "easy" places to get good gear so I'm basically screwed. NSD, I know you're tired of hearing me whine about this. ;) I simply do not get good gear from instances. It's been that way Aleri's entire career. I have better luck getting epics and rares out in the world than I do in instances. I also really despise these end instances. I go 5-manning them anyway for people because GG is still enjoying playing Gnolack and there are still quests that people need to get completed in them, but raiding somewhere I'm completely unfamiliar with is just not something I enjoy. I play this game for the enjoyment and entertainment. Spending hours and hours and hours doing something I loathe just so I can perform better doing things I merely detest isn't a very attractive proposition to me. I'm just not a hardcore player, but since I'm one of the few 60 healers left in the Lurkers I'm pressured into becoming a hardcore player. Edit: Minor nit to myself here. I'm not even in the Lurkers anymore so I don't know why I feel any pressure about that, but I do. And no Bolty, I didn't leave when I hit 60. I left before that because of personality conflicts with some members of the guild and not because I felt I could find something better elsewhere. Aleri is unguilded now and will remain that way. This also seems to cut down on random whispers asking for raids. ;)

The only talents that Aleri has that affect mana, mana regen, or simply using less mana are Improved Healing (5), Improved Prayer of Healing (5), and Mental Agility (4). That's why I mentioned respeccing. I don't have Mental Strength or Inner Focus or Meditation or Divine Spirit. Aleri was specced as mostly Holy because I just wanted to see how viable she would be as a healer to that crazy gnome. And, as I said, just healing him and one other person, my mana is not an issue. It's just in the higher instances where it's an issue because of the AoEs and heavy magic/elemental damage and the magic/elemental AoEs. Yes, I could respec her so I'd be a better healer for the end instances and raids, but then she wouldn't be Aleri anymore and I'd have to force myself even more to play her than I do right now.

Edit2: I am harvesting felcloth so I can get some mooncloth so I can have some of our many tailors make me Mooncloth items (I know people have the shoulders pattern, the vest pattern, the leggings pattern and the robe pattern) in the hopes that this will help me out in the instances a bit better until I can get some real gear. It'll take me a while, but at least this is something that I can solo and not spend hours and hours and hours on. I don't have to be logged in for the cooldown on the transformation to run down. ;)

[NotSoDarklord]

There is virtually no information about raids in the WoW manual, so filll us in with your experience. What do we need to know before we start up raiding?

Some other things I thought about at work tonight, mostly involving group composition/tasks. Who does what? I mean, I'm familiar with an MT's role, somewhat knowledgable about an MA's role, and know what the healer's tasks are...but only in a 5 man setting. How does the 5 man move to the 40? Does a 40 man raid need only a single MT?

40 man raid may need a few depending on where you are. For something like onyxia you only need one with a few waiting in the wings to take up should the tank go down. In something like MC however you can have a few tanking different mobs while the rest burn down a single one.

If they have a couple more warriors, do those ones stand back so that they can charge in if the main falls, and become the new main?

Typically

Would having a 5man group full of just healers be a good idea, if they all had CTRA and could see everyone's health so that they didn't have to be grouped with them? Is there a dedicated "healer protection 5man"?

That is a bad idea because you'll get a lot of overlapping targets and a lot of missed targets :-\ Easier to just let people heal for their group and maybe keep an eye on another group, that way people get the heals they need when they need them.

Is it just everyone firing on the MT's target after s/he's locked it down while the healers heal like crazy? Who gets to/should be in melee range, and should no one but the MT expect a heal, and thus they should be prepared to heal themselves, by way of pots/bandages.

Please explain which encounter you are talking about. MC? Depends on the fight. Most bossfights mean sorry rogues, heal yourselves, with a similiar attitude for most casters that have no healing capacity. When fighting most trash mobs however the mana can be expended to heal the rogues. Healers do not want to go nuts, as it will deplete their mana and screw the group. MT's target is often not the one killed first you must realize when fighting multiple mobs. Put the strong tank on one target and the weak tank on another so you can burn down the weak tank mob's mob fast since he is not as proficient at tanking.

[Tal]

I went into Dire Maul for a Tribute run and wiped.  My gear isn't even good enough to go into the "easy" places to get good gear so I'm basically screwed.
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From what I have heard that wipe wasn't your fault but can be chalked up to "whoops!" than anything else. :) But I for one would like to do at least one Tribute run as it is not something that Sharanna has had the pleasure of doing. :)

[Hillary]

Growing up, Aleri absolutely loved her spirit gear and when I only have to keep Gnolack healthy against physical damage, there's nothing that ccould outlast us.  However, throw in magic damage or elemental damage and I burn right through my mana because I don't have the 5 seconds between casting to even start the regen going.  NSD keeps telling me my gear doesn't suck (probably because the nice things I have all come from him with the exception of the necklace we got yesterday ;) ), but I have neither the regen nor the large mana pool with the gear I have on.  I don't have a whole lot of stamina either.  And I just simply do no get useful cloth drops in instances.  You mention Strat and Dire Maul for getting the drops.  I went on a strat run.  The only piece of cloth to drop (that was even worth looking at for anyone) was the devout skirt from the Baron (which the other priest won).  I went into Dire Maul for a Tribute run and wiped.  My gear isn't even good enough to go into the "easy" places to get good gear so I'm basically screwed.  NSD, I know you're tired of hearing me whine about this. ;)  I simply do not get good gear from instances.  It's been that way Aleri's entire career.  I have better luck getting epics and rares out in the world than I do in instances.  I also really despise these end instances.  I go 5-manning them anyway for people because GG is still enjoying playing Gnolack and there are still quests that people need to get completed in them, but raiding somewhere I'm completely unfamiliar with is just not something I enjoy.  I play this game for the enjoyment and entertainment.  Spending hours and hours and hours doing something I loathe just so I can perform better doing things I merely detest isn't a very attractive proposition to me.  I'm just not a hardcore player, but since I'm one of the few 60 healers left in the Lurkers I'm pressured into becoming a hardcore player. Edit: Minor nit to myself here.  I'm not even in the Lurkers anymore so I don't know why I feel any pressure about that, but I do.  And no Bolty, I didn't leave when I hit 60.  I left before that because of personality conflicts with some members of the guild and not because I felt I could find something better elsewhere.  Aleri is unguilded now and will remain that way.  This also seems to cut down on random whispers asking for raids. ;)

The only talents that Aleri has that affect mana, mana regen, or simply using less mana are Improved Healing (5), Improved Prayer of Healing (5), and Mental Agility (4).  That's why I mentioned respeccing.  I don't have Mental Strength or Inner Focus or Meditation or Divine Spirit.  Aleri was specced as mostly Holy because I just wanted to see how viable she would be as a healer to that crazy gnome.  And, as I said, just healing him and one other person, my mana is not an issue.  It's just in the higher instances where it's an issue because of the AoEs and heavy magic/elemental damage and the magic/elemental AoEs.  Yes, I could respec her so I'd be a better healer for the end instances and raids, but then she wouldn't be Aleri anymore and I'd have to force myself even more to play her than I do right now.

Edit2: I am harvesting felcloth so I can get some mooncloth so I can have some of our many tailors make me Mooncloth items (I know people have the shoulders pattern, the vest pattern, the leggings pattern and the robe pattern) in the hopes that this will help me out in the instances a bit better until I can get some real gear.  It'll take me a while, but at least this is something that I can solo and not spend hours and hours and hours on.  I don't have to be logged in for the cooldown on the transformation to run down. ;)
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That's it! Aleri's coming with me.

:D

When it's a complete fun fest and everyone ELSE is having fun, it's contagious: the instances are so much less boring and stressful, Treesh. When there are other people of your own class comfortable with the place, it means that there's more room for you to aquaint yourself and less pressure to healhealheal. I felt exactly the same way you did when I first started doing instances. I'd get very overwhelmed by it all. I'd take deaths personally.

However, I started grouping with Tutelin and Flyndar, who both knew what they were about. All of a sudden I didn't feel so overwhelmed, because I could actually look around and see HOW COOl Scholo is, and HOW COOL Strath is.

I'm not saying you're going to fall in love with it. You may very well not, and the point of playing a game is fun. But I really think we can make it fun for you by eliminating stressful factors. Hell, I'm doing instances now in black mageweave attire because I like the way it looks.

It will get better. I swear.

[Treesh]

When there are other people of your own class comfortable with the place, it means that there's more room for you to aquaint yourself and less pressure to healhealheal. 
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I know I'm sounding very negative here, but when you have more people who already know the instance (I'm talking about raiding here, not 5-manning), it's not a way to acquaint myself with the area. They move too fast and I have a tendency to just follow them because I don't want to slow down the group and this means I never actually learn where the turns are, where the mobs are. It also seems (in my admittedly very limited experiences) that the people who take charge either assume you know where everything is and how things are going to go down or assume that you don't know anything and spoonfeed everything to you and I still can't get the instance fixed in my brain unless I 5-man things. Ruvanal, on the other hand, did an excellent balance of telling us the massive surprises coming up without revealing everything and having it feel like we're just robots following commands when we were running through the lower instances. Many thanks for that Ruv. :) I'm the same way with driving to new places. If someone just shows me the way, it just doesn't fit in my brain. It's only when I'm driving (or walking or biking) that I actually learn how to get where. For the longest time after moving to where we are now, I couldn't connect some parts of the town with other parts of the town because I never drove from one to the other. I had driven in one part so I knew how that area fit together, and I had driven in the other parts so I knew how they fit together, but since I didn't drive between the areas, I couldn't connect them together. It's just something weird that GG teases me about (goodnaturedly of course. :) )

Edit: And, while it may sound like I didn't appreciate those who took me into Strat and Dire Maul, I really do appreciate your efforts and I'm glad I did go even if I didn't enjoy them. Thanks especially to NSD who keeps hounding me about going into those higher instances, even though I hate them. ;) I am still enough of an explorer that I want to see new places and experience new things.

[Hillary]

Hrmm. I guess the only other thing I can say is if you come in with Darian and I - who are used to bringing newer people through - it won't go too fast, and we're not the type to give away the cool aspects of the instance. We'll just warn you ahead of time of what might be best, that a group might spawn ahead, etc, etc. Rylea/Skan is also good for this (memories of Uldaman and Sunken Temple ftw!)

Course, I believe we're uber, so maybe I've got a bias thing going on. But I think I've grouped enough to use good judgement, too, so I'm going to give myself some credit.

The sad fact is that these big kid instances are impossible to explore without a group. Things are just too big, so the familiarity you're looking for will only really come from having a good tour guide. The loot comes eventually; two instances does not a pattern make, and I truly believe you will have the uber gear you seek. Priests generally make out well, because EVERYONE wants a 1337 healer. It benefits all.

I see brighter days ahead.

:)

[Kevin]

It's not just 2 instances for Treesh. The last instance item drop she used was the staff from Scarlet Monestary. Part of that is lack of decent cloth drops in the game, part of that is her luck. She gets amazing world drops, she gets good drops to give to other people. She doesn't get things for herself. This isn't just with Aleri either. This is with all her characters. Fortunately we find stuff that can be passed on to some of her alts that never find anything for themselves.

I on the other hand seem to get upgrades in instances a lot, with all my alts. She really does have luck that bad.

[Hillary]

It's not just 2 instances for Treesh.  The last instance item drop she used was the staff from Scarlet Monestary.  Part of that is lack of decent cloth drops in the game, part of that is her luck.  She gets amazing world drops, she gets good drops to give to other people.  She doesn't get things for herself.  This isn't just with Aleri either.  This is with all her characters.  Fortunately we find stuff that can be passed on to some of her alts that never find anything for themselves.

I on the other hand seem to get upgrades in instances a lot, with all my alts.  She really does have luck that bad.
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Gah. Sounds like Quark. He's got the same crappy luck going on.

Poor Treesh.

:(

[Treesh]

two instances does not a pattern make, and I truly believe you will have the uber gear you seek. 
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You are correct. Two instances doesn't make a pattern. What makes the pattern is I managed to win the roll for Doan's rod the first time we killed him and then the next item I picked up in an instance that was an actual upgrade for Aleri (and even that wasn't much of an upgrade at all) was in BRD. Yes, I ran through all the instances between them (even Maraudon, although I was vastly overlevelled for that the first time we did it) and besides donations from buddies, quest rewards and just buying pieces at the AH at level 50-something because I was tired of wearing the same equipment from my 30s, my gear didn't get upgrades from instances. I got some handy things outdoors (epic plate shoulders that Gnolack is wearing, the underworld band from STV, managed to get an ankh of life out in the world for my first trinket, epic gloves and a rare belt for Etheramwen), but in instances cloth does not drop for Aleri, over the entire span of her career. The circlet or whatever it actually is, did drop from Princess when we were zerging Mirajj and Mitzy through after I had hit 60, but even that wasn't much of an upgrade for her head (because I was wearing a quest reward from a higher leveled quest so if it had dropped the first time I ran Maraudon, I would have counted that as a great instance upgrade). I wasn't just talking about Strat or Dire Maul. I was talking about her entire career. Instances have never been for upgrading equipment for her simply because cloth doesn't drop. It was for quests and getting my tank gear, since that's what would drop instead. It is just frustrating to do all that work and get zero usable loot for it. I'll admit it, I like my feeder bar to be pressed and items can do it, but for Aleri, there's too little reward in instances to even think about the feeder bar getting pressed.

Edit: I took too long to type this up and GG beat me to it. :) Also, Dire Maul shouldn't be counted as a failed loot run for Aleri. I bailed and went to bed after the wipe so really, it was only Strat that was a failure for loot for the high-end instances.

[Ruvanal]

Alright, I really enjoyed getting the ten Lurkers together to bring down Teremus. It was quite a neat sight, to go from a chance comment in guild chat to getting 10 lvl 60 Lurkers together in roughly 10 minutes to bringing the big guy down.
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Actually it was 9 level 60 characters a level 59 Littledude. Interestingly enough when someone ran an output showing the damage each character did to Teremus, Littledude was second in the ranking. That was even with various casts at the begining that kept coming up as 'immune' instead of damage. Also LD took out 3 breaks to bandage himself and just wait for some mana recovery.

Some disection of that fight is that someone kept pulling the aggro off of Gnolack several times causing Teremus to shift position, only once was is a large shift in position though. This caused me to have to try to run around to find another spot to fight from that was in range and still out of his (her?) AoE life drain attack that replenished his life. There also at some points appeared to be too many characters that were staying in this radius since on at least 3 occasions during the fight, I saw his life steadily gaining instead of going down. So in spite of Gnolack good Grabbing and holding o fthe aggro, some out there need to watch just how much they grab themselves. I had thought that it was me at one point, but Teremus had dashed over to an area near me instead.

For future reference the damage that I saw that was working from my point of view was only the Arcane Missiles attack. My Firebolt and Frost bolt were coming up immune showing that Teremus is most likely immune to all fire and frost attacks. I am not positive on all fire attacks being fully resisted as there have been times that I could use a Fireblast on a target that was flashing immune to all my other fire spells, but that is not a spell I wanted to test out on Teremus at this time. Intestingly was that Littledudes wand damage was flashing as 'Immune' even though its damage type is listed at Arcane. I forgot to test out his other wand he carries to see if it made a difference.

[Icebird]

I think Dire Maul is one of my favourite end-game instances because you pick a section to do, and each wing doesn't take an excessive amount of time. For a priest a lot of "mana regen per 5 seconds" gear seems to drop there. The Lorespinner is a quest reward for Lethendris' Web (dagger with int, stam and some mana per 5 seconds). I picked up the Diablo Mantle (shoulders with int and 8? mana per second) from Prince Thorlendril or Immol'Thar (I also have Magister's in the bank, but the Diablo mantle looks *much* better).

I don't know how effective stacking a lot of mana regen gear is, but as far as I can tell, it isn't affected by the 5 second rule - it will continue regardless of whether you are casting or not. If you can find the recipes, Ghostweave tailoring recipes also have mana regen.

Chris

[Mirajj]

Actually it was 9 level 60 characters a level 59 Littledude.  Interestingly enough when someone ran an output showing the damage each character did to Teremus, Littledude was second in the ranking. 

I should have remembered this. At one point you were even standing right in front of me. *S*

Intestingly was that Littledudes wand damage was flashing as 'Immune' even though its damage type is listed at Arcane.  I forgot to test out his other wand he carries to see if it made a difference.

This guy is immune to nearly everything. He's even immune to Hunter's Mark! I've never seen anything else like that.

It's not just 2 instances for Treesh. The last instance item drop she used was the staff from Scarlet Monestary.

I hear you. I can't recall the last time I was in an instance, and actually got anything that wasn't AH-bound, or just sold to a vendor (as a greed BoE I won). The sole thing I have from an instance is Talvash's necklace...and I'm still wearing it. I fall into the same category as Treesh, with dropstuffs. Most of the drops/rewards are plate, leather or cloth. While cloth seems to drop about as much as mail, so about all I ever see are plate or leather. So I don't do instances for the gear, but for the experiences. However...

Please explain which encounter you are talking about. MC? Depends on the fight.

...I have only been in ONE instance higher than Maurdon, and I was only in BlackRock Depths once. I've still have never seen Dire Maul (though I'm told it's in Ferelas), I've never been to Scholomance (though I'm told I've swum by it), Blackrock Spire, upper or lower, Molten Core or Onyxia'a Lair. I have poked my head (literally) into Stratholme with Sabra and Sharanna the other day, and laughed as we got trashed on the first mob. Well, we were just there to look, anyhow.

While normally my timing is good, here it seems to be utter crap. I am always just a little too late to join the group, if I have the time. Or I'm working. I admit, my work schedule plays havok with my playtime, and lately IRL's had it's own 'fun' share of things to eat up time.

So I was speaking more in general. But you answered generally a little later in your post. =)

[Darian]

For those discussing the lack of decent instance loot... well, you're right. With the exception of a handful of spectactular melee drops in Sunken Temple and Maraudon, loot drops in the Uldaman-BRD span are pretty awful.

However, things change drastically once you get BRS, Scholo, and Strat into the mix, as that's where everyone's set pieces -- as well as tons of other nice goodies -- start to fall. In other words, you've got some valid points, but in some ways it's like bemoaning your inability to get a really good job when it's just turned April of your senior year in college. ;)

[KiloVictor]

For raiding, I'm either going to have to respec Aleri to boost my mana pool and efficiency (which I really would rather avoid since then I wouldn't actually be playing Aleri, I'd just be playing a straight up heal bot) or get more gear to increase my mana pool.
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Not that it's news, but gear's your solution. My priest is a shadow-spec that does just fine as a raid healer with 10 points in Holy. I attribute that entirely to equipment -- in raiding gear with buffs, I'm running about 6,600 mana and just over 400 spirit. I don't run out of mana nearly as much as I used to.

Our guild went at it fairly methodically: we mapped out the places we needed to hit for the various set items, and we started farming the instances. "Farming" in the sense that we ran them again and again, not farming in the mind-numbingly boring sense of grinding mobs for cash. Instance runs are fun, they're a great way to practice your teamwork, and in a raid format, a good chance to practice with new tools and tactics (CTRaid being the biggest change) which you'll need later.

Our rotation was LBRS for UBRS keys, Strat and Scholo for boss drops (heads from Gandling, legs from Rivendare, all sorts of goodies in between), and UBRS for Onyxia keys and set chest pieces. Pretty much all our guild has their class set now, except a few harder-to-get bits.

One thing that I noticed was the progression of the group. We went from having an embarassingly hard time with 15 people (yes, 15!) in Strat to mowing confidently through in much smaller groups. I attribute this to two things: improved team play, and improved gear. It really does make that much of a difference to upgrade to the level 60 items.

The other thing is that with CTRaid you're going to play differently, especially as a healer. Limitations of being grouped in the same 5-player party go away when you can see the health of the entire raid group, so you can start structuring your groups more effectively to take advantage of group effect spells and start experimenting with different group tactics.

There are those that will object to overpowering your way through 5-man instances, and it's not usually my thing either. It can get a bit boring after a while, but completing a set or getting that perfect item drop can go a long way in keeping me happy. Plus you can start to make up new games to keep things interesting... say racing to certain bosses against the clock, running two raids in parallel as a race, or maybe putting together the most offbeat group you can imagine (perhaps only pet classes and one healer?) for each run. And by rotating through the various instances, you can keep it a bit more fresh and entertaining.

Life at 60 does start to focus on gear upgrades, for better or worse. ;)

Good luck in getting them!

Kv

[Hedon]

For instance, I keep hearing about CTRaidAssist. I've only seen screenies of it, and it looks to me like it basically magnifies the little raid screen in the social window. Now...is this really important for every member of the raid to have, or just for the raid leader/healing crew?

I also had to promote some people, so they could use CTRA. What does that promotion do/mean, and why can't they use CTRA without it?

There is virtually no information about raids in the WoW manual, so filll us in with your experience. What do we need to know before we start up raiding?

Some other things I thought about at work tonight, mostly involving group composition/tasks. Who does what? I mean, I'm familiar with an MT's role, somewhat knowledgable about an MA's role, and know what the healer's tasks are...but only in a 5 man setting. How does the 5 man move to the 40? Does a 40 man raid need only a single MT? If they have a couple more warriors, do those ones stand back so that they can charge in if the main falls, and become the new main? Would having a 5man group full of just healers be a good idea, if they all had CTRA and could see everyone's health so that they didn't have to be grouped with them? Is there a dedicated "healer protection 5man"?

Is it just everyone firing on the MT's target after s/he's locked it down while the healers heal like crazy? Who gets to/should be in melee range, and should no one but the MT expect a heal, and thus they should be prepared to heal themselves, by way of pots/bandages.

Let's get the ball rolling on the theoretical raid discussion, what's worked and what hasn't, so when we reach the practical stage, we have a good idea of what to try and what to avoid doing.
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1.) Regarding CTRA:
Yes, everyone should have installed it, for the following reasons:

a.) Data from people that don't have CTRA installed will often not be transmitted correctly or even not be transmitted at all, resulting in N/A fields in the CTRA panel. It is highly irritating for healers when your CTRA status is not updated correctly, resulting in bogus health, debuff, mana information, or not even shown at all.
It is also irratating when you have to rezz multiple people and you do not see at once who is already up, and who still needs to be rezzed.

b.) You can assign MT in CTRA, so that their targets and their respective health status is shown in extra boxes. Clicking on these boxes will make you target that MTs target. Great for assisting.

c.) Seeing how the raid in general is faring might provide you with important tactical information on what to do, without someone having to tell you this explicitly.

d.) CTRA has a mana conserve option, which helps greatly managing your manapool by avoiding overhealing.

Make sure you keep your CTRA version up to date and also make sure you are on the correct CTRA channel when joining a raid (ask for it).


2.) Regarding lumping up healers in one group.
As NotSoDarkLord already has lined out, this is not the best idea. Remember priests have the "Prayer of Healing" which heals a whole group, but not the whole raid. You will often find yourselves in situations where everyone in a group needs a heal, due to AE damage or something, so putting a priest in every group seems a good idea. Also as priest, unless I'm assigned to heal a MT, I will primarily heal my own group, and let the other healers take care of their respective groups as long as the situation does not get critical, such as one group taking excessive damage, in which case I would of course help out (CTRA requiered for this, of course).


3.) Regarding tanks:
Most often there will be a primary MT, and several secondary Tanks for off tanking and special sitautions. The primary MT will always have several healers assigned that will heal him primarily, while the others Tanks will only have designated healers assigned in special situations (normally they will be healed by the healers of their respective group).

Remember in raids all tanks, whether primary or secondary will be warriors, at least on the horde side.

Being the primary MT is a position of both high responsibility and prestige and should only be awarded to the best warriors availiable. A good and respected MT will often receive more than his share of loot, because he is the one where equipment counts the most.


Since I'm relatively new to raiding myself, some of this may be completely BS, so readers discretion is highly recommended ;)

[Drasca]

I LOVE MY SPIRIT GEAR! 

Do a tribute run and try and get that robe that regens 10 mana per tic. 
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Good. Spirit trumps int for battles beyond 3 minutes. You should have a spirit set in tow for long battles.

Some priests regen 100+ mana per tick at 300ish. That's even better with druid innervate.

Spirit's near useless for locks, but somewhat highish spirit is unavoidable even for me. 171 spirit on my lock I think. I appreciate the mana regenerated when I get it.

There's also mana channeling wand (60.9 dps, 4 mana/5 seconds) , lorespinner, milli's book. Last two are DM quest rewards... hmm. Possibly horde only. Mana channeling wand is off Cho'Rush the Observer in Dire Maul north (next to king, so this screws with tribute a bit). Its worth doing non tribute runs for this and various warrior equipment upgrades from the guards. One more, there's a quest reward, Crown of the penitent, that is 20 int and 6 mana per 5 seconds. Unsure of quest off-hand. Band of Rumination also drops off UBRS, but you'll be competing mages as this is 5 mana per 5 seconds and +1 crit, but no other stats.

While discussion equipment, the Burst of Knowledge trinket is also nice. Reduces cost of spells by 100 for 10 seconds and adds +12 equipped magical/healing effects. Drops in BRD off the demon boss before 7 dwarves that summons many level 30 fire elemental adds. Although, BRD isn't terribly good for equipment. Go to Dire maul, scholo, strat or BRS for your equipment needs.


For supremacy of +mana regen (direct or through spirit) Let's compare two wands. Stormrager is what? 8 int? 120 mana. In 3 minutes at 4 mana per 5 seconds, you gain 144 mana. Of course, the calculations are different with +mana pool talents, but that's up to you to modify.

I don't have spirit formula however. I need to ask my priest friend about that, but Daamien on my server just gained manastorm leggings 14 mana / 5 seconds, and that's the equivalent of 41 spirit he says. Pretty damn useful I say.



Small note to Treesh:

How bad could your gear be? Honestly. Dire maul areas can be very tough, but its mostly about tactics, experience and class composition rather than equip. I agree with Hilary, you've just had bad luck. Go with her and have fun!


Better organized raids tend to explain anything important. This usually falls under the duty of the raid leader. The more talkative the raid leader, the better. Less strictly organized.. get sloppy. My last one, strat-baron, we wiped to those necromancers with life leech that drains 350 health and mana per tick (possibly second), then explained the casters need to be interrupted with earth shock and kicks (no mages). When fighting Baroness anastari, posessed enemies needed to be debuffed to 8 slots. Raid leader forgot to say this.. but was presented mid-battle before our tank died to our own party.

Also... if you want to go exploring, might I suggest you lead a party of your friends and present them with your pace? I'm sure they're around to play with you as a party rather than just drops. So what if you don't know what to do, you're there to find out, and your friends can give pointers if necessary.


Might I also comment Hedon has provided some very solid advice in this thread. Take heed.

There is also sometimes a main assist, someone who picks targets. This setup becomes useful when battle becomes chaotic and there's no obvious main target.

To do help your main assist, you may either setup a macro by typing /macro, create new, naming and selecting icon for macro, then typing /assist name_of_MA_here and dragging the icon into your hotbars, or clicking on their name and hitting F (default key I believe).

As for instance loot, sometimes it takes sheer doggedness to get any decent loot. I've had to run Maradaun 20 times for the desired loot, and I still don't have cloudstone (lost roll 3 times). Some priests/mages have gone through UBRS 30-50+ times to get their cloth robes or devout mantle. Some have gone through that many times and still haven't gotten it.

Don't feel too bad. Equipment comes and goes, but it only gets better.