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06-09-2005, 03:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2005, 03:16 AM by gekko.)
Well, you may or may not be aware of it, but apple has recently announced they will be switching to intel chips in 2006. The repurcussions of this should be interesting, to say the least.
Now, I've been planning on purchasing a Powerbook in September, for school and such. However, with this news, I've decided against doing so. I really don't want to plunk down a few grand on a laptop just before apple makes such a huge change. Nor do I want to purchase one of the first models off the line after the change. So while I really would love to get a mac laptop, that purchase has been put off for a few years, at least.
So now what the heck do I do with this lump of cash I've been slowly saving up?
Well, much as I hate windoze, it looks like I'll be selling off my current PC (as planned) only to buy another PC. I really don't need any more power than I've got, but I've got the cash now, and I'm hoping to build something that'll last me for a bit (not really a problem, given my tendency to only buy gmaes once they go head for the discount bin). I've been looking at prices and reviews for the past week or so, and I believe I've covered all my bases. Thus far, my plan looks like so:
MSI K8N Neo4-F NVIDIA Socket 939 ATX Motherboard -- PCIe (though not SLI - unless someone can be very convincing that it's worth the extra cash), socket 939, far better on board audio out than I would ever bother with, four DDR RAM slots. And decently priced, too (or so it appears to me).
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ / 512KB Cache / 2000 MHz FSB / Socket 939 -- one of the pieces I may look at upgrading down the line. But probably not for a while.
MSI Radeon X800 XL / 256MB DDR3 / PCI Express / Dual DVI / TV Out / Video Card - biggest single price tag of the bunch.
Kingston 512MB Non-ECC, CL3 PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory (x2) - the motherboard has 4 RAM slots, so I also would be thinking of rounding out the RAM with another 2 512 MB sticks down the road. I've always had good luck with kingston, though I haven't really gone through a lot of RAM.
Ultra MS Blue Dragon Case with Ultra 500 Watt-X Power Supply - I really like the idea behind the power supply (totally modular, with removable cables and coverable connections). And the reviews I've read of it are all thumbs up. And the price is right - I originally was looking at absolutely dirt cheapest cases I could find, and spending ~$100 on the power supply. This does a much nicer case and what appears to be a VERY good power supply for about the same price.
Western Digital 200GB Serial ATA hard drive - not much to say. More space than I need, probably, but the price difference is so small I may as well go nuts.
And that's all. I already have an LG DVD burner; I'll probably add a DVD-ROM as well before I finish. I also have a wireless card and an extra PCI USB card. I'm still looking into monitors, and can stick with my IBM flat CRT. I'll probably do that and keep a lookout for a good deal or another price drop on 17-19 inch LCD's down the road. If anyone sees any gaping holes in my setup, or suggestions for changes, please let me know. This will be only the second PC I've built, and the first time doing the whole thing myself. I do, however, have a couple friends who can help me out if I get stuck.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
gekko
PS oh, and btw, any prices I mentioned or linked to are in Canadian dollars.
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
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Quote:though not SLI - unless someone can be very convincing that it's worth the extra cash
Unless you're crazy and want to go dual 6800 Ultras, the only reason I can think that you would need SLI is so that you can get a decent card now (plain 6800 or a GT are coming down in price) and then later when they're in the bargain bin after NVidia releases the 9999 Ultra GT FX Super whatever and ATi releases its z999, you can pick up a second card and get enough of a performance boost so you won't need to do another major upgrade.
Just my own personal nit: I like on-board audio about as much as I like on-board video. You don't get anywhere near the same number of features and it actually does decrease your FPS in games versus having an actual audio card (only 1-2 fps or something like that, nothing really noticable, but it's still there). There are some really decent 7.1 sound cards out there that are cheap and still have good quality.
$100 CDN is a nice price for a case with a 500Mhz supply. Lucky Canadians.
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gekko,Jun 8 2005, 10:04 PM Wrote:Well, you may or may not be aware of it, but apple has recently announced they will be switching to intel chips in 2006. The repurcussions of this should be interesting, to say the least.
Now, I've been planning on purchasing a Powerbook in September, for school and such. However, with this news, I've decided against doing so. I really don't want to plunk down a few grand on a laptop just before apple makes such a huge change. Nor do I want to purchase one of the first models off the line after the change. So while I really would love to get a mac laptop, that purchase has been put off for a few years, at least.
As I read it, the full switchover won't happen until 2007. I'd say the probability is high people will still be making PPC-compatible binaries for at least a couple of years after that. So the useful life of any laptop you get would be 4+ years. At which point you'll most likely want to upgrade anyway.
A lot depends on what you want to do with a laptop, and how much you want that OS X interface.
I've survived several major transitions on the Apple; they've done a very good job over the years of managing chip and OS changes.
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Wyrm,Jun 9 2005, 02:10 PM Wrote:$100 CDN is a nice price for a case with a 500Mhz supply. Lucky Canadians.
[right][snapback]80063[/snapback][/right]
I overclocked my power supply to 2.2 GHz :wacko:
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DeeBye,Jun 9 2005, 01:36 PM Wrote:I overclocked my power supply to 2.2 GHz :wacko:
[right][snapback]80093[/snapback][/right]
I must need an upgrade, mine is only running at 60hz. <_<
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Wyrm,Jun 9 2005, 01:10 PM Wrote:Unless you're crazy and want to go dual 6800 Ultras, the only reason I can think that you would need SLI is so that you can get a decent card now (plain 6800 or a GT are coming down in price) and then later when they're in the bargain bin after NVidia releases the 9999 Ultra GT FX Super whatever and ATi releases its z999, you can pick up a second card and get enough of a performance boost so you won't need to do another major upgrade.
Just my own personal nit: I like on-board audio about as much as I like on-board video. You don't get anywhere near the same number of features and it actually does decrease your FPS in games versus having an actual audio card (only 1-2 fps or something like that, nothing really noticable, but it's still there). There are some really decent 7.1 sound cards out there that are cheap and still have good quality.
$100 CDN is a nice price for a case with a 500Mhz supply. Lucky Canadians.
[right][snapback]80063[/snapback][/right]
Working backwards...
To be fair, the $100 is after a $60 mail in rebate. Still, at that price, I'm likely to buy it even to just replace my current tower (which has a gaping hole in one of the side panels... long story).
If I do purchase the computer I detailed, I'll likely look at replacing my speakers somewhere down the road, at which point I'd also look at adding a sound card. I've had a few minor problems with my current (on board) sound, so I definately would prefer upgrading. I just can't justify the cost at the moment.
The whole "buy one 6800 GT now and a second one in a few years" is the only reason I've been able to see/find for SLI, as well. And given that the X800 XL is so far beyond what I'll need anytime in the foreseeable future, I just can't see myself getting a benefit, even in 2-3 years, out of running 2 6800's.
I'm currently trying to talk myself down to replacing my tower, motherboard, chip and RAM, but sticking with AGP so that I can continue to use my current video card (128 mb Geforce FX 5200). It's not a great card, but it's again, far more than I'm actually using right now. That would end up saving me a whole bucketload of money, and I could still look at upgrading my card when SLI and PCIe really swamp the market and the AGP card prices really plummet. If I do that, I could instead spend some money on a nice monitor (which I really want to do anyways). I suppose it'll depend on how much I let my geek side influence my "but we need that money for food" side.
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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Bun-Bun,Jun 9 2005, 01:22 PM Wrote:As I read it, the full switchover won't happen until 2007. I'd say the probability is high people will still be making PPC-compatible binaries for at least a couple of years after that. So the useful life of any laptop you get would be 4+ years. At which point you'll most likely want to upgrade anyway.
A lot depends on what you want to do with a laptop, and how much you want that OS X interface.
I've survived several major transitions on the Apple; they've done a very good job over the years of managing chip and OS changes.
[right][snapback]80064[/snapback][/right]
You are right, of course. I've had a few issues with apple, and while they eventually solved my problem (to my more than ample satisfaction) it reminded me very clearly of the "fun" involved with living several hundred kilometers from the nearest apple repair center. So I was hesitating already.
The last reason I'm leaning towards a PC is that I'm pretty confident I can turn around and sell whatever I build for at least what I'm going to pay for the pieces (and possibly a little more). So it's a fairly "safe bet." Still, I'm really hoping my pragmatic side wins out and I spend the money on something a little more basic :).
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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gekko,Jun 9 2005, 09:39 PM Wrote:I'm currently trying to talk myself down to replacing my tower, motherboard, chip and RAM, but sticking with AGP so that I can continue to use my current video card (128 mb Geforce FX 5200). It's not a great card, but it's again, far more than I'm actually using right now. That would end up saving me a whole bucketload of money, and I could still look at upgrading my card when SLI and PCIe really swamp the market and the AGP card prices really plummet. If I do that, I could instead spend some money on a nice monitor (which I really want to do anyways). I suppose it'll depend on how much I let my geek side influence my "but we need that money for food" side.
[right][snapback]80109[/snapback][/right]
If you are looking for something middle of the road for now, you can build something quite cheap even with a nice video card. GeForce 6600GT cards are going for about $250-$275 (CAD), and Radeon 9800 Pros are going for around $175. Either of those cards will run any current game at very high detail and resolution. You can get a 6600GT in PCIe flavour, but not the cheaper 9800 Pro.
I personally wouldn't even look at SLI unless you are looking to combine two top-of-the-line video cards right now. By the time you want to add another card, there most assuredly will be a more powerful next-generation card on the market that will outperform a pair of previous generation SLI cards.
A bit of a derail, but I think someone could make a killing right now by manufacturing a combination AGP/PCIe motherboard (maybe selectable by jumper?) for people who are in the process of upgrading a AGP system to something PCIe, but lack the funds for an expensive PCIe card.
As for cases, I always hear great things about Antecs, particularly this one. It's a decent looking case, and provides plenty of power on the +12V rail (16A I believe). It's also less than $100 (CAD).
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gekko,Jun 8 2005, 11:04 PM Wrote:I already have an LG DVD burner; I'll probably add a DVD-ROM as well before I finish.
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Since we're on the topic of computer hardware purchasable from Canadian sites, does anyone have any objection to me buying this for $75CAD? For reference, newegg lists it for $49USD.
If you are too lazy to click those links, here is the drive.
NEC DVD burner, model ND-3520A
DVD+-RW Dual Layer internal drive
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DeeBye,Jun 9 2005, 10:58 PM Wrote:Since we're on the topic of computer hardware purchasable from Canadian sites, does anyone have any objection to me buying this for $75CAD? For reference, newegg lists it for $49USD.
If you are too lazy to click those links, here is the drive.
NEC DVD burner, model ND-3520A
DVD+-RW Dual Layer internal drive
[right][snapback]80113[/snapback][/right]
How does NEC stand up to sony?
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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gekko,Jun 10 2005, 12:03 AM Wrote:How does NEC stand up to sony?
gekko
[right][snapback]80115[/snapback][/right]
I don't know, but I like Sony and I'm bookmarking that link.
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I didn't notice the proc on your list, I can guess what it will be, but you might want to put that on there just in case. =) Also, don't forget the floppy drive, never know when you will need one.
WWBBD?
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06-10-2005, 05:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2005, 05:11 PM by jahcs.)
DeeBye,Jun 9 2005, 06:15 PM Wrote:A bit of a derail, but I think someone could make a killing right now by manufacturing a combination AGP/PCIe motherboard (maybe selectable by jumper?) for people who are in the process of upgrading a AGP system to something PCIe, but lack the funds for an expensive PCIe card.
[right][snapback]80112[/snapback][/right]
I may have seen an Athalon board with AGP and PCIE video card slots but here's one for Intel:
ECS Motherboard
This design hasn't really taken off.
As for myself if I were to build a computer I would probably get a mobo with SLI capability. I would probably start with one video card though. You can always leave the jumper in the non-SLI position.
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The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance. Robert A. Heinlein
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DeeBye,Jun 10 2005, 01:58 PM Wrote:Since we're on the topic of computer hardware purchasable from Canadian sites, does anyone have any objection to me buying this for $75CAD? For reference, newegg lists it for $49USD.
If you are too lazy to click those links, here is the drive.
NEC DVD burner, model ND-3520A
DVD+-RW Dual Layer internal drive
[right][snapback]80113[/snapback][/right]
I would say that NEC and Pioneer have the best DVD burners currently, so I'd go for it.
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06-10-2005, 11:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2005, 12:00 AM by LavCat.)
gekko,Jun 8 2005, 11:04 PM Wrote:Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
gekko
PS oh, and btw, any prices I mentioned or linked to are in Canadian dollars.
[right][snapback]80016[/snapback][/right]
I have an Asus Neo4 board and I like it very much. I was using an MSI Neo3 board that had lots of problems. Your milage may vary.
Edit: I use supplies from PC Power and Cooling.
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