Living of the Land

[Toverkol]

Started a LoL character several days ago, it's now l19, but i wanted to know if there's any more reading on the variant, except from the rules and the rogue help on Claudio's page.

Fun variant btw, the scrolls of identify searching is tedious (i have 7 pieces of jewelry left to id ;)), but the usage of weapons until they break (or keep them at 1 or 2 for the repair shrine) is very fun. Haven't used Baranar's Star and the Needler in a while :)

[malach_cha_movis]

Started a LoL character several days ago, it's now l19, but i wanted to know if there's any more reading on the variant, except from the rules and the rogue help on Claudio's page.

Hi Toverkol,
I'm surprised that no other lurker responded to help you. You surely received enough looks. :unsure:

If you have not heard of it, might I suggest "Realms Beyond" or "Realms Beyond Diablo". This site is deidicated to Diablo Variants. However, I'm not positive of the exact name of the site, or its address. The last time I looked, the site was still being supported. You can google the name to get the e-mail address. I also believe there is a link on this site for "Realms Beyond."

That said, a variant is a variant. Unless you want to compare your results and experiences with other players, there is nothing that make the a variant's rules sancrosanct. Just take the rules you find attractive, add any additional ones that you would find interesting, drop the oneronous ones, give your variant a new name, publish it in this forum, and voila, a new official variant has been born.

It is also possible that if you justify your choices, your post might even become a thread.

Have fun and enjoy.
Malach

[[vL]Kp]

Just take the rules you find attractive, add any additional ones that you would find interesting,  drop the oneronous ones, give your variant a new name,  publish it in this forum, and voila, a new official variant has been born.[right][snapback]81042[/snapback][/right]

Actually, it's traditional that a variant is not official until someone manages to get at least one dot with that variant's rule set. :)

[malach_cha_movis]

[quote=Toverkol,Jun 16 2005, 10:29 AM]
Started a LoL character several days ago, it's now l19, but i wanted to know if there's any more reading on the variant, except from the rules and the rogue help on Claudio's page.

Hi Toverkol,
Me again. Just thought of something else. I should have thought of it first. Do a search of this forum and the forum on Realms Beyond with the expression "Living Off the Land". If ii remember correctly there were many very interesting threads aout this variant as well as many other variants. Not only about the rules, but also about the experiences of other players in these variants.

Again, lots of luck.

Malach

[malach_cha_movis]

Hi =[vL­]Kp

Actually, it's traditional that a variant is not official until someone manages to get at least one dot with that variant's rule set. :)
[right][snapback]81043[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for the correction. :o I didn't know about that tradition but it makes a great deal of sense. :blush:

Malach

[Toverkol]

thanks all, i'll search the forum in the near future.

as for the site you mentioned, Realms Beyond Diablo, i've been there and read a number of Ironman campaign, which are veyr much like LoL. good site.

As for the way i play LoL:
mostly by the rules stated on Bostic's rules site. which comes down mostly to not using any gold. (no buying of items, potions, scrolls/books, no repair, no selling or recharging staves).
I play multiplayer games, although mostly single because i cant find many LoL players on the Europe server anymore.

Since a short time i tend to recreate the possible shrines in town (religious, glimmering, purifying spring) since it saves a lot of walking time and doesnt make much difference.

I play with one exception though, partly because i dont really understand the rules assocoated with dying in singleplayer. When i die, i use the stuff which 'should' be in my inventory, meaning the setup i take from game to game. I find it somewhat nonsense to only use the items that were in the inventory at the moment of dying, since i tend to empty it so i can take more pots and items back from the dungeon.

I do tend to thow away scrolls of resurrect which i gathered, although i dont think i will consider a char game over when it ever might happen that i'm out of scrolls.

Right now my Rogue, Roggebrood, is at l25. Usually i play normal games, cleansing chruch up to l3 or 4 for a full inventory of pots and id scrolls, after which i dive into hell to see where i can get, usually clearing levels, except when low on pots, at which time i decide what to do with the last portion of it.
I've been very lucky in finding religious shrines, which means i still carry around msot of the better items i found, including a Heavy Short Battle Bow of Shock, a Long Battle Bow of Maiming, and recently an Obsidian Short Bow. For armor i found a Plate Armor of Craftmanship (145d/ac43) in nightmare-church. An area which is still pretty hard to cope with btw, down from l4 things start getting hard.
My Helmet still sucks (ac7, +8vit) and since a short time my jewelry is ok (Amu Giants 19, ring Moon5 and ring Stars8, and in my last game a full Lion's amulet from Witchmoon). I also carry around Wizardspike and an amu Brilliance 11 as glasses, which means my max mag is around 95, and most spells with common books are around l 7-10 (3 enchanted shrines), except for Fireball(l1, just found) and Teleport (still zero). Stone Curse and Mana Shield are somewhat lower (4-5) too. For my melee setup i'm still stuck with a Gnarled Root (spc) and Sapphire Kite Shield ac 11.
Resistances are a very large problem still, although (untried as of yet) the Obsidian short bow might help, dont know yet if i'll keep stunning though, else i only have a Lapis(31) ring of Thieves.
Id-ing is a big problem though, i did about 12 runs for my first glimmering at which time i had gathered about 15 jewelries, found one yesterday, so i hope i wont find to many interesting things in the near future ;)

Right now i've been down to Laz room only once, and with only 2 full blues and a full yellow i didnt want to take him on, only lured out the witches. (i can only barely survive one Advoc blast right now). But its jsut since a short time that i can stun enemies in hell with my better bows (heavy//shock and -//maiming). Let alone beat Diablo

Maybe the allowance of one free ID for each tile-set you clear is a good idea, although it might be better to say the item to be ID'd should come from that tileset too, else people will do normal church runs to ID their hell items. (although a church run will probably give you 2-5 ids, but you get the idea i suppose)

[Occhidiangela]

LOL at AOH by Bostic

The beauty of the LOL rules are their simplicity. Glad to see there is still joy to be had with D1 variants. :D That game has legs!

Occhi

Started a LoL character several days ago, it's now l19, but i wanted to know if there's any more reading on the variant, except from the rules and the rogue help on Claudio's page.

Fun variant btw, the scrolls of identify searching is tedious (i have 7 pieces of jewelry left to id ;)), but the usage of weapons until they break (or keep them at 1 or 2 for the repair shrine) is very fun. Haven't used Baranar's Star and the Needler in a while :)
[right][snapback]80797[/snapback][/right]

[Thecla]

Teleport (still zero).
[right][snapback]81205[/snapback][/right]

Teleport isn't easy to get for LoL characters -- I still remember the delight of my own main LoL rogue when one of Laz's witches dropped a Teleport book.

Maybe the allowance of one free ID for each tile-set you clear is a good idea, although it might be better to say the item to be ID'd should come from that tileset too, else people will do normal church runs to ID their hell items. (although a church run will probably give you 2-5 ids, but you get the idea i suppose)
[right][snapback]81205[/snapback][/right]

Some flexibility in the strict rule set, at this late stage of the game, is fine I think (for example, allowing a restart if you have a res scroll in your possession, and then burning the scroll, if no other LoLs are around, as they surely won't be), but giving free IDs for clearing tile sets seems to me a bad idea. The whole spirit of the LoL is to graze the land -- if you need IDs go out and find them...a few church runs, and who knows what useful shrines you may find along the way. If you need anything else, figure out where you can get it, and go there. It really was my favorite way to play the game, even if (or because) it is perhaps best adapted to rogues.

[Hureg]

tll-1 in europe has a LoL community - we started it up a few months ago - then it sorta got put on hold - we had 15+ LoL's roaming around for a couple of weeks though

personally i have a lvl 31 warrior SLoL - SLoL - Superstitious LoL - no shrines, no indestructible items excluding jewels of course - there's also a rule in the SLoL variant - found in lemmingofglory's variant archive - available at http://www.realmsbeyond.net in the diablo variants section - about sacrificing for id's at cain - but in my opinion that's dumb so its not included

come to tll-1 sometime and say hello - all legits are welcome.

[Toverkol]

hmmm dont know if you guys care, but a try to keep this forum more or less alive

i just reached l26 yesterday, and beat Laz for the first time.
Had about 10 pots with me starting the game, cleared l1 for another 8 and dove into hell, met Succubi and Vortex Lords. Put on my Amber LBB (worst bow i kept) took pretty heavy damage from fire and magic, but managed to stun most, use a lot of walls against the succubi. Took down Gorefeast for a damnable hard leather.
did find Inferno which i id'd after the game (finally had 8 scrolls in my possession) i took it with me to see if it might help me in beating Laz and Advocs next time (wearing it while stone cursing).
Lvl 14 featured more Vortex Lords and Snow Witches instead of Succubi. Used to beat the Vortex Lords by walking up to the one that is most alone and stun him down with a bow, those guys walk very arrow consuming. Layout of the lvl was exactly the same as 13 and being low on pots went to 15 straight away. Switched to my Obsidian sb for less damage, although it doesnt stun, switching to my most damaging lwb-maiming when wanting to stun opponents.
Landed straight next to Laz room and took out creatures around (cabalist & snow witch) got out Vex and Jade, alas at the same time. Stone Cursing them took a lot of mana, an i died to Vex when she got two blood stars trough, while Jade was down already. Went back in (after res burn) with only my heavy swb of shock (2nd strongest bow) stone cursed and took her down, for a helmet and a cloak :(.
Taking down 2 advocs and 2 Hell Spawns i went out of pots and didnt try Laz yet, and i wanted to find Bloodlust and Vizier too, because of the bad drops up to now.
Cleared l2-4 for an incredible low number of 14 pots and 4 scrolls of healing, but it would be just enough. Went back to 15, were only one advoc and laz were left, het tp'd out of the room, so i could easiliy stone and beat him, for a large axe...
Cleared 1/2 of l15 before i found bloodlust, who managed to kill me in between the second and third stone curse. More Walking (found ac 48 plate on the way which i put on along with Obs bow) and took her down on the second try. Dropped an Ammy, finally :). Continued for the Vizier which appeared after 3/4 of l15, he went down pretty easy to the maiming bow, along with his pack, he dropped a LWB, along with a FPM from his pack. Had one full red left at this stage, so i called it quits. (time, and not willing to clear cats for pots). Reached l26 while taking on the Vizier.
Id-ing showed me the (1)FPM was Vigor 19 (ac 68), but i can only wear it with my best str equip (+19 ammy, +8 ring, +8 all ring and 55 base=90) and i dont want to miss out on my lions ammy 60 yet. Keep it around for if i manage to find a titan ring somewhere.
(2)The Ammy was a 15 heavens ammy, great although as said, cant wear it with FPM yet, 4 short, witht he craftmansip plate i can, but i doubt whether its more useful right now than the 60 lion, i'll compare some in the next game.
(3)The Helmet (ac5) was a precision helmet (20), much better than the vigor i wore, so i put it on.
id 4 was for the Inferno, id5 for the LWB, of vigor 18 alas, and worse then my top 3 (maiming lwb, heavy/shock swb, obs sb), dropped it there, along with the amber lbb, to make room for the FPM.
id6 on a morning star i found made it Lord's, worse than Gnarled Root, id7 for a mace of the Ages, drop both. took one id to next game.
Id'd the stuff with Cain which i havent used scrolls for (out of curiosity) and noticed that the ammy i found in l3 was a Raven20/Brilliance13... would have been great glasses, but alas. Also found an Immolator and a Torn Flesh in the dungeons, always fun to see.

suppose i'll try taking on D for the first time soon.
char now:
l26 rog, Roggebrood.
lwb maiming(4)/ac43 plate of craftmanship(143)/helm(5) precision(20)/ammy lion(60)/ring stars(8)/ring moon(5)
bows: Heavy(47) swb Shock (1-6); Obs(38) sb
sw/sh: Gnarled Root spc/Sapphire(56) Kite Shield(13)
glasses: Wizardspike(15), Ammy Brilliance(11)
reserve equip: FPM(68) Vigor (19); Inferno; Topaz(13) ammy, Topaz(11) ring, Lapis(31) ring Thieves, Ammy Stability, Ammy Giants(19), Ring Might(8).

[Toverkol]

Since i was just trying to get my first dot, i'll post my story, because i feel the need to rant it here, hope you enjoy.

Started with Church for potions and scrolls, went trough it easily of course (l26 by now) found some sbow soon and started spreading chaos on the scavengers. L2 featured a lot of bosses, Soulpus, Shadowbite, Boneripper and Rotfeast, one of them dropped a Needler, which i havent used, i'm in doubt because of the fast attack but i opted for my other bows (Obs Sbow, LWB Stars 9 and Heavy sbb of Shock) which deal some more damage, and durability is an issue too. (Had a needler before which was gone in no time, i do crit with it now, on normal so it might be better now, but ah well) L3&4 featured some more scavengers, some flesh clan archers and some skeleton mumbo-jumbo, nothing real special, but i found about 25 pots and 5 id scrolls and lot of books just above my max magic (which is 121) no special books though, did find a staff of healing and a staff of holy bolt, which'll both come in handy (healing me trough cats and when i'm alone, and HB to lure out Diablo in the end)

Went on for Cats, since i wanted to be sure i had enough pots, i know usually a church run gives me enough for a laz run, but because i also needed part of l16 and the advocs have been slow going with near to no fire res (only the sbow, and inferno) On top of that i was thinking of clearing hell, which would take to much time when i came back from the bar to finish my game.

So i headed trough Cats for more pots, i didnt find more than a pot or 15, but did find 3 more id scrolls but more specially some good books, twice MS, one Lightning, two Flash and one Stone Curse. (and another SC and a FW which were above 121 magic) used about five healings or so, especially near l8 were i had Mud Runners and Acid Beasts. Also met some Black Deaths on l5 but they dont pose a problem to my rogue. Another good thing was finding a Infravis scroll or 5.

Skipped the caves due to time, and i think it would also have cost me potions if i went trough (and durability!), could ahve given me some nice items, but i think i'd usually skip it always, and when i've beaten Laz work my way up spending my last pots, and as such i might end up in l12 but i suppose i'll never reach l9 in this way :)

Went towards Hell, changed my setup for it. Took one of my found spare bows with me (a composite), and my Heavy bow of Shock. Did keep on my Plate of Sorcery 20 instead of the FPM of Vigor, because the latter needs the bow of the Stars +9, else i cant wear it. Switched my Lion 60 amu for a Heavens 15 amu (i consider the HPs are useful on low-hit levels since it makes sure i have to use less scrolls of healing there and stuff like damage is not important on scavengers.)

L13 had the stairs down just next to the stairs to town, lucky me. Went to look what monsters it featured, which were Lava Maws and Blood Knights, two of my biggest adversaries, i killed 4 BKs and a Maw, an amu dropped and i decided this lvl would take way too much pots and slow going to go to bed on a christian time.

L14 had the hardest way a level could lay out for a Laz run, it was some kind of circle with the stairs being halfway at the other end of the level. Didnt notice this of course which means i took 1/3 of the lower circle part and then decided to finish the upper half (since i wandered further there before figuring out the dlvl).
The level featured Vortex Lords and Snow Witches, which brought me to getting my Obsidian bow. Took them down in small numbers walking up to the Vortexes so they start melee-ing instead of doing their strange dancy chaos thingy. Took them down before any witches, retreating to not let them take shots.
On my way to the other stairs i found a FPM and full Tower Shield and two bows, which made me very happy :).
Also leveled up to 27 here. (more dex of course)

L15 would take some work, since it featured Hell Spawns and Cabalists, with my resistance problems i was in doubt what to use, but considering the damage and the to hit chance coming when there's no resistance i decided to take on the FPM vigor and LWB stars +9. Took pretty much damage from the beasts, but usually Cabalists can be easily outmaneuvered to use healing, and pinch in some shots again.
Hell Spawns are more of a problem though, so i wanted to find out where laz and the pentagram were, used an Infra scroll to look around a bit, and figured i was in NE, and SE was a large room. Went around the top slowly and in the hallway to the west side i met up with Bloodlust and the Vizier, which were subtly waiting together for me. Luckily Bloodlust was the only witch so i could lure her out and SC her.
After that used the above method to take down Vizier and his bunch, although it took me longer than i wanted. They gave me magical Rags and a Staff of CB, yay!
Went on searching for Laz room, with another infra scroll. found it just after the hallway in NW. Cleared some walking space around it and made a TP there. stepped in to lure out Blackjade and killed her while she was SC'd. Went in again for Vex, but i had my ever present laggy-laz problem (due to a slow cd-rom player i suppose) stood there for two seconds with the Spawns and Advocs firing all they ahd at me. Somewhat pissed because i usually live trough the laggy stuff i didnt put on any spare equip. (note that i found 5 res scrolls in the upper dungeons, so i had every right to go roaming while drunk)
Problem was when TPing in that Vex had walked out of the room, and i was there standing around naked. Just got out a SC in time but it lasted to short for me to be alert for telekinesing my bow back. 2nd SC on her and picked up my bow with Telekinesis. cast a third SC on her and killed her. The two witches carried a Staff of Heal and a Great Axe, yay!

Now for the fun part, As you can read below i found an Inferno not long ago, and i was wishing to try it's use vs Advocs (it gives full fire res), problem is my shield is a Sapph Kite ac 11 and of course swinging around a standard Lsw with some fire damage is not going to be fast. On the other hand i had enough mana left to start SCing as crazy, and i had the AC 20 tower shield lying around. Used an ID scroll on it (1st id) and found out it was of the Tiger (43), pretty good i would say!
Had to wear the Sorcery plate again though, and took the Stars bow with me in case it would be too tough.
Ran in and out to bow down the two Spawns, and found oput my technique worked pretty well. Of course in Laz room there are a bit many Advocs to SC them all and start killing them, but the Inferno makes sure you can also live trough some blasts of them (compared to one nearly killing me before) Slowly made my way trough the room SCing Laz and an Advoc and killing the latter until Laz was the only one around. He dropped a Sparking Mail, which i find a nice item to keep around in standard multiplay but right now the lightning damage doesnt weigh up vs high AC and high Dur in my opinion. even though when using a bow in a way you dont get any melee monsters, its too much risk for me.
Back to town i took a bow setup again, but decided on the Obsidian sbow this time, and also didnt forget taking my Lapis ring of Thieves with me this time. This appeared to be a much better setup here, with over 60% resistance the Cabalists couldnt do a thing, the Spawns still caused some problems.
Though the penta would be in SW, but of course it wasnt so i had to walk on to SE, the large room i spotted in the start of the lvl. Not much pain here, used my third Infra to know what'd be coming and jumped into the pent.

Made a TP and took Inferno/shield down again, The idea was luring out BKs, shooting them down and then go after the advocs with SC and Inferno. Worked out nicely, the BKs shouldnt come in threes or more, which meant running once.
The taking on of advocs was a bit more slow but it beautifully showed my technique worked wonders, killed about 6 advocs to clear the SE part of Diablos room.
Went on cleearing part of the SW room, which was no hassle either, especially because it was mainly BKs, and about 2 advocs, which went down to said combo.
Gorash was outside in this room too, on his own, he went down quickly on his own and dropped me another magical staff of Healing.
Flipped the two levers with Telekinesis and went up to prepare for the final battle.

Started with IDing, had 7 scrolls left after the Tower Shield. 2nd id was for the FPM which was a Giants! means i can now wear an FPM in every setup, as long as i put it on while wearing the lwb stars 9. 3rd id for the Sparking Mail. Id4 on the Ammy from l13 which was a Wizardry amu 27!, which meant mag jumped up to 130 max, and makign me able to read another book of FW, and some smaller ones (CB, firebolt and such)
Id5 and 6 on bows i found in hell (i believe SWB and Comp) they were of no real use except the SWB which was of Sorcery 20, i already had a Wizardspike as glasses with me, but this lifted my mag to 135, making the 134 prereq books readable, which meant another lvl of Healing and SC, among others. Didnt take the bow with me, because six spots for 5 mag is a bit much. id7 on a long sword from l14 whcih turned out nothing special. Id8 was a bit spare but i decided to check out Gorash's Healing Staff, it turned out Drakes 43, fun but no treasure for new games. If it were Bountifull i would ahve though about it but...

Fitted me out with the new FPM and took my most dmg bow (the stars one), dropped the holy bolt staff in hell near my TP, made some room in my inventory for the final fight (dropped some pretty useless rings for two pots an MS scroll and a Infra scroll) and six empty spots for switching the staff for my bow. Dropped the Sorcery plate there to pick up when i lured out Diablo.
Went around the corner and started firing HBs, which of course didnt find Diablo, accidently actived two BKs which i had to kill, then Diablo came out. Ran back to my Plate dropping the HB staff and started firing on Diablo, which was stunned. Did have to drink some pots against his Apoc, but he died soon enough.

My first LoL dot is there, on to NM it is...

setup:
helm of precision (5/20), Plate of Giants (72/19), LWB Stars 9, Amu Heavens 15, Ring Stars 8 Ring Moon 5.
Spare bows: Obs 38 sbow, Heavy 45 swb Shock
sw/sh: Inferno, Tower Shield ot Tiger(20/43)
spare equipment: Plate of Sorcery (46/20), Amu Giants 19, Amu Lion 60, Ring Stability, Amu Wizardry 27, Wizardspike, Lapis ring Thieves 31.

[Toverkol]

ehm... just noticed the FPM of giants has only 18 duration left... could take some time before its treasure instead of inventory space...

{edit] grmm used it for a small part found a hidden and got it down to 3 duration, its now real inv space... did found a ruby plate which should make the advocs doable with a bow.

[Meshuggah]

Since i was just trying to get my first dot, i'll post my story, because i feel the need to rant it here, hope you enjoy.

I did enjoy it... Hmm.. maybe I should start a LoL-Rogue... or warrior.. hmm

[Ashock]

setup:
helm of precision (5/20), Plate of Giants (72/19), LWB Stars 9, Amu Heavens 15, Ring Stars 8 Ring Moon 5.
Spare bows: Obs 38 sbow, Heavy 45 swb Shock
sw/sh: Inferno, Tower Shield ot Tiger(20/43)
spare equipment: Plate of Sorcery (46/20), Amu Giants 19, Amu Lion 60, Ring Stability, Amu Wizardry 27, Wizardspike, Lapis ring Thieves 31.
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If you have Mana Shield, then you do not need to wear +HP items. Either way, you should be wearing the Plate of Sorcery instead of the useless Giants FPM, especially in NM as that AC from the FPM is totally useless in anything but Normal. Besides, real Rogues do not need AC ;-)
Also, drop that horrible helm of Precision, as it gives you a tiny bit of Damage and nothing else, so unless it makes the difference beetween stun and no stun, you do not need it. A plain helm of +Magic would be better.
Also, *real* Rogues do not go S/S, heh.


-A

[Toverkol]

thanks for the input, although i'm another type of rogue than you are i suppose, my usual standard game rogues definitely come with a s/s in the inventory, for melee levels and duels. on top of which i am definitely unable to beat advocates without my inferno right now. or it would take a LOT of pots)

In standard games i would indeed go with MS, but since this is a LoL variant i'm more in doubt, when dropping the +HP items i have only about 10 more mana than hp, which means the bowls would empty nearly at the same time. Using the red one means i can use the mana for castings of healing, and with the +hp items the healing is better than without. But more importantly since you're on a fixed number of potions every game, using MS would mean my blues go down faster, and be used for hit points, while the red ones will nearly only be of use when i find an Eldritch. i think that, except for a boss here or there, the potion-consumption is lower while using healing (and an SC every now and then) than while using MS.
In standard play with the cheap price of full blues, of course i'd use MS.
another small reason to keep the HP rings around is the potion gathering in church, which i want to do with the least loss of pots, which includes castings of MS or Healing, this way i am usually able to do those levels with one bowl.

As for the helmet, as said in my logs, its the best i've found to date, both in magical properties as in AC, if i found a good +mag helmet i would be wearing it indeed, though i'd rather get a +str helmet for prereqs of armors or simply a +all helmet (not to mention RC). (it is pretty near getting stun on short bows btw, but i can use other bows just as easily so thats not the reason for it, note btw that its not purely for damage, it also increases AC and blocking chance by a small notch.)

The plate is a complicated matter too, as you say correctly it wont help me much in NM or hell, but it does in normal, and since drops are just as good in normal its a good armor to wear while looking for better treasure. I think i'd use the sorcery one in higher difficulty games, but to be honest i'd like some more AC, and my dex is in no way high enough to take care of that by itself. there can be some discussion on what a 'real' rogue needs, i like my rogues being untouchable, instead of taking on one monster at a time for fear of contact. ;)
Of course here too Awesome stuff would be great, but the chance of getting it is rather small.

i jsut arrived back from holiday btw, which explains why i havent been able to continue the char yet.

[Ashock]

You know that MS reduces damage, right?



-A

[Toverkol]

yup, by 1/3 if i'm correct. useful for Didi, but not yet for other locations, i must admit i havent really been trying it, so i might try a dungeon with MS to see what lasts longer at this point.

[Draconis]

My LoL rogue is about level 27-28.

One thing I noticed, you shouldn't need to use sh/sh for advocates - you *should* be able to keep them in stunlock with a bow. Any bow. As long as you do a minimum of 33 damage (nit me if incorrect). The issue with sh/sh is the slow block rate of a rogue, and also the slow swing speed. You can do a lot more damage per time with a bow, and its frame rate is fast enough to keep 'wizard' enemies in stunlock. Keeps you from chasing them and/or cornering them.

I've been doing some Laz runs trying to find an eaglehorn, but only have a windforce so far :P

[Toverkol]

hmmm the sw/sh combo is mainly for wearing Inferno, so i get full fire resistance, i suppose i your dmg is right i should be stunning them, but if there's a pack of 4 (which happens all too often enar didi) you catching some FBs is very likely, and without the resistance i have a chance of dying on the second FB.
As soon as i can get my fire res from something else than Inferno, i suppose i can ditch the sw/sh setup for most cases (i'm still convinced its useful in all melee levels, since your AC should amke sure you dont have to drink a single potion. (and in the case of Inferno, Balrog types too))