finding "unfindable" uniques

[plnloe]

Hi I'm new around here. I've played Diablo and Hellfire briefly in the past, although never on multiplayer. Recently I returned to playing Diablo 1, this time aiming for a more thorough play that I never did. It's still as enjoyable as I remember it to be if not more. Just days ago I read the Jarulf's Guide, and it really increased my understanding of the game by a whole stretch, although many things are hard for me to understand because I know nothing about programming. However, I also learned many defects of the game that I wouldn't otherwise know, and I wonder if Blizzard could have done a better job fixing those with so many patches they've released for the game (although I noticed that those patches are primarily concerned with crashes and multiplayer). One thing that struck me especially was those "unfindable" unique items in multiplayer that I didn't even know to exist before I read the guide. I used to think I could collect all unique items if I play in SP long enough, and this information casts doubt on that. But I think I still need some clarifications, to make sure I understand it correctly.

I saw the guide's table of "unfindable" uniques in multiplayer. As I understand it, there's this order of priority by which the game decides which unique is dropped if there are several possible uniques of the same base item and of the same qlvl. To me the possibility of finding those "unfindable" uniques is revealed in this sentence in page 34 (from pdf version of guide):

The same items are findable in single player but only if you find another unique item of the same base item and qlvl first in the same game session.

which is further elaborated by this passage in page 42:

In single player (but not in multi player) the game keeps track of what unique items have been dropped (or recreated at  game start in a character's inventory)  and if the same item is determined to be dropped again (or regenerated at game start), the next one with the same qlvl or the one with the next lower qlvl will instead be dropped. Thus in single player you can actually find those "unfindable" unique items but you must find at last one other unique item of the same base item first. The game will forget the list of found unique items when you restart a new game however. The list is saved when you save the game in single player but not restored upon load except for those items you have equipped.

Here are my questions:

1. So the game keeps track of what's in my inventory when I create a game, and I get to find the "unfindable" unique if the same item is to be dropped. Or do I? Because the passage also states that the list is forgotten if I create a new game. So will I find the "unfindable" unique, or the same unique I already found and kept in my inventory at game start? Right now I'm guessing I'll find the same unique, because the guide mentions "the same game session," but I'm not sure.

2. Also regarding "the same game session" concept, I believe the explanation for it is at the end of the passage, that the list is not restored upon load unless for the items I put on. But does that mean if I find an unique known to precede the "unfindable" ones, and I put it on, then I don't lose the chance of finding the "unfindable" in a different game session? i.e. I equip the unique, and I save the game, quit, and load the game when I come back to play later, that I can still find the "unfindable" unique?

[Toverkol]

i believe you're right you have certain instances o these 'unfindable' uniques, all of which represent a certain number in the list of uniques, if you happen to find that certain number again, a different unique will drop. When you open a new game, whether or not keeping the unique you'll start over from scratch again (finding the first unique).

I also believe there's a passage about these unfidable uniques even disappearing from your inv after you start a new game, although i believe thats a unique instance of these unfindables that disappear.

[Cytrex]

1. So the game keeps track of what's in my inventory when I create a game, and I get to find the "unfindable" unique if the same item is to be dropped. Or do I? Because the passage also states that the list is forgotten if I create a new game. So will I find the "unfindable" unique, or the same unique I already found and kept in my inventory at game start? Right now I'm guessing I'll find the same unique, because the guide mentions "the same game session," but I'm not sure.

As far as I understand the parts you copied from JG, it only metters if you've found the preceeding items in the same game. This means as much saving or loading as you wish. The game forgets all this once you select "New Game" though. Also, the fact if you have that item on you, or do you even have it at all(ie sold it?) does not matter at all.

This all is not my knowledge, just interpretation of given parts from JG.

[Jarulf]

Wanted to comment some, even if I might mostly repeat allready given answers.

First of, I sometimes update or clarify my guide, but might miss that the same thing is commented on at another place. In part that is the case here I think. In addition, I am a bit vague in the Guide.

Basically, what happens is that the for each game (I think it resets when you pick a "new game") the game keeps a list of allready created uniques. It should not be emptied in any way, so even if the unique leave the game, it should still be in the list as "done". A created unique can either be one created as a "drop" in the dungeons, or a unique recreated as a player brings it into the game with his character. Such uniques are basically just saved as uniques of a certain type and levels.

Note that the list is only used for single player, in multiplayer the game always pick the first one in the list and hence won't even (re)create the others.

This has some concequences. First, the followqing uniques in the list (with same type and level) can only be created if the ones prior has either been generated as a drop in the dungeons, or if a player has brought it with him into the game (since it is for single player only, there really is no issue of switching chars or players leaving with the items). So if you have the two first unique maces on your char, this first one droped in the dungeons would be a Lightforge.

When you start a new game, the game recreates the uniques from scratch, with the only info being what type and level. The order is that of the order they were saved as, I would think it depends on were in the inventory it is placed (including equiped). The first one (if we look at those uniuqe maces) would be a Civerb's Cudgel (even if that specific item was another of the unique maces before), the second one would become the Crackrust and the third the Lightforge. So the unqiues might switch between themselves which is which unique depending on save order. Of course, if you only kept two on your character (for example sold one), only the Civerb and the Crackrust will be regenerated, even if it was one of those that you sold.

My guide is somewhat vague and wrong on this, and regarding the morphing, the current version only lists that for the Lightforge I believe. It applies to any such uniuqes, including the ones from Hellfire.

Hope this was clear and that it answers any questions.

[plnloe]

Thanks for everyone's help, I appreciate them all. So according to what Jarulf's saying here, I can still find the "unfindable" uniques if I bring all the uniques that precede them into every new game (in single player). For example in Hellfire if I keep the ring of thunder, then I can find the ring of mystics next, and as long as I bring them over into the next new game in my inventory, I can go all the way to eventually find the giant's knuckle after I find all 6 unique rings that precede it. And, in the same example, I may notice this funny thing of the unique rings switching positions in my inventory.

[LemmingofGlory]

For example in Hellfire if I keep the ring of thunder, then I can find the ring of mystics next, and as long as I bring them over into the next new game in my inventory, I can go all the way to eventually find the giant's knuckle after I find all 6 unique rings that precede it. And, in the same example, I may notice this funny thing of the unique rings switching positions in my inventory.

I'm suspicious of this conclusion. In Hellfire, for example, finding Inferno (via finding two Diamondedges) will cause the sword to morph into Diamondedge the next game. So, if Diamondedge is the result of carrying Inferno to the next game, I would suspect Ring of Thunder would be the result of carrying the unique qlvl 8 Hellfire rings into new games -- which wouldn't make it any easier to find the unique rings.

-Lemmy

[Scrape]

I'm suspicious of this conclusion. In Hellfire, for example, finding Inferno (via finding two Diamondedges) will cause the sword to morph into Diamondedge the next game. So, if Diamondedge is the result of carrying Inferno to the next game, I would suspect Ring of Thunder would be the result of carrying the unique qlvl 8 Hellfire rings into new games -- which wouldn't make it any easier to find the unique rings.

-Lemmy
[right][snapback]81274[/snapback][/right]

I believe you are right.

I recall from experience of when I had both Civerb's Cudgel and Crackrust. I saved my character with the items and started a new game. The Crackrust was now also Civerb's Cudgel, but it did retain its indestructible property.

[plnloe]

So in the case of Hellfire rings, I'd find that the qlvl 8 rings I've collected will all turn into ring of thunder when I enter a new game, regardless of how many rings of thunder I already have? That'd be sad...

[plnloe]

I've been doing single player runs to test what we've been talking about here. I found a black razor and then a gonnagal's dirk, but when I entered a new game the gonnagal's dirk turned into another black razor. Now I think this issue's concluded. Even if I do find those things, I can only keep them for that game.

Now my only comfort is that those "unfindable" uniques in Diablo aren't very powerful stuff anyway. Hellfire has some useful uniques that are "unfindable" though. Anyway, now I give up on the idea of finding all uniques.

[Jarulf]

I've been doing single player runs to test what we've been talking about here. I found a black razor and then a gonnagal's dirk, but when I entered a new game the gonnagal's dirk turned into another black razor. Now I think this issue's concluded. Even if I do find those things, I can only keep them for that game.

Now my only comfort is that those "unfindable" uniques in Diablo aren't very powerful stuff anyway. Hellfire has some useful uniques that are "unfindable" though. Anyway, now I give up on the idea of finding all uniques.
[right][snapback]81421[/snapback][/right]

Hmm, seems my information was a bit wrong then. That seems to indicate that reconstructing an item will always provide the first unique of the list. I will try to dig out the code and look a bit into it.

[danifilth]

http://www.monstersgame.de/?ac=vid&vid=42963