A Theory: Expansion for WOW

[Arnulf]

Seeing that the game has so many holes, especially in the late and end-game I was wondering if Blizzard will introduce an expansion for WOW. Expansions are nothing new to the MMO-World. Everquest had several, UO, DAOC, FFXI, even Planetside had one.

Expansions for a MMO are basically content patches distributed via retail. Along with bug fixes of course. Also look at the history of Blizz' games:

- Warcraft 2 : 1 expansion
- Starcraft : 1 expansion
- Diablo : semi-expansion with Hellfire
- Warcraft 3 : 1 expansion
- and of course: Diablo 2 : LOD exp. (which made the game complete for me at least.. but I digress)

So I believe they will announce an expansion for WOW this year. Probably before Christmas. This would also explain the shoddy implementation of version 1.6. Blizz' programmers are working on the expansion instead of working on bug fixes.

-Arnulf

[nobbie]

I'm wondering if the promised "single-player content" will be out before the expansion, or if they want to make money of that.

[bernard shakey]

The shoddy implimentation of 1.6 certenly dosn't motivate me to buy an exp. for this game. In fact I believe its time for a mass petition to be signed and sent to blizzard, stating that " if major bugs are detected on the test relm and patched in anyways then I am going to cancel my account." enough is enough, I cant see any reason to have rushed this patch and i find it insulting

[Jarulf]

So I believe they will announce an expansion for WOW this year. Probably before Christmas. This would also explain the shoddy implementation of version 1.6. Blizz' programmers are working on the expansion instead of working on bug fixes.

-Arnulf
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Although I tend to believe there will be an expansion, one that you buy in the shops, I am also a bit reluctant to believ that Blizzard can't see how pointless expansions are. Or rather, can be!!

If we stick with the fact that an expansion is an addition to the game that you have to purchase (one time fee or whatever) over the normal game, I see several problems with this, and only really one reason. The only reason is to make extra money. I have no idea about normal pricing for expansions, but I would guess in a range that is equivalent to 2 or 3 months or payment for playing the game. I have always been of the opinion that this type of game with monthly fees should be priced very cheap and instead have the cost normally put into the purchase as part of the monthly fee. It should have minimal inpact on most people I would say. Similary, one can add in the cost of an expansion into the monthly fee. The advantage is of course that everyone that wants can get it. Possibly at some expense on the money made by the game company, although I am in part inclined to believe they get back a bunch of it if not all) in extra people playing longer.

So, now that we have the advantage (the game company probably make some extra money), lets see the problems (which ends up affecting both the game company and the players.

How do you handle people having two different variants of the game?

Have special expansion servers? Dividing the people? Do people with the expansion "move" their characters there? Or do people have to restart? Will people all the time be able to make this move as they by expansions, thus constantly adding new allready high level chars?

Have special areas, races, items, and so on that only expansion players can access? Well, there is still a need then to push an awefull ammount of that content to all non expansion players so they can see and experience those players. Potentiall one need to complicate items so they are expansion only and can not be traded and so on (or spill that to normal players anyway). Only thin possibly not needed to push to non expansion players is grapics and sound for new areas. This to me seems like a potential messy disaster. Factoring in that we have PvP, it is pure insanity!!

Logistics in supporting two versions of the game, this includes behind the seen tech support, content support, balance, and everything else. After all, the whole world might need some retuning if we increase the level cap, introduce new items, classes and so on (including two code bases for part of it). It is a whole bunch of extra work that of course will cut into the extra money they made from having people buy it instead of having everyone get it.



There are probably a whole bunch of other points to bring up. I admit that I have no idea how they have handled it in every other similar game out there with expansions. All in all, I am all for an expansion, but I can see HUGE benefits for both players and Blizzard to have it as a "patch". Admitadly a large patch which in itself causes problems not addressed above (but are in part in existance in any case were you don't split into servers for expansion and servers for normal with no mixing).



All in all, I still think Blizzard will go the "cheap" route an relöease an expansion you have to pay a lot of money for. I would not be surprised if there will be separate servers for reasons of logistics for non expansion players. Sort of sad, but that is my guess.

[nobbie]

The expansion will certainly introduce the "Hero" classes (for characters from level 60 on) and thus access to new, above-level-60 areas (Northrend? Hyjal?) as well as new classes and maybe even new races/factions (Neutral? I would like that on PvP servers), and probably weather effects. As non-expansion player (character level limit 60), you won't be able to play in above-level-60 areas even if you have access to them, because the level 65, 70, 75 and higher monsters there will kill you quickly. I for one wouldn't hesitate a minute to buy the expansion if the new contents and options are good, because 30 to 50 bucks is really nothing when you are used to buying entertainment articles like DVD's, videos or music CD's these days ;)

PS: A tip for the heavy MC, Onyxia and BWL item farmers: Once the WOW expansion is out, and level 70,75, 80 and higher items can drop, you can forget all (epic) boss drops that are currently considered godly by non-expansion standards, because any "green" or "blue" level 75 or 80 item will outperform those easily then. So, don't waste too much time in MC raids but start new characters and enjoy the new experiences ;)

[Phrozen Heart]

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200....1757.37624.htm

[Darian]

How do you handle people having two different variants of the game?
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Probably the same way everyone else ever has.

With the new expansion will come new areas, new character classes, new playable races, new quests, new items, and possibly even new level limits and new graphics software upgrades.

Those who don't buy the expansion will be unable to access the new areas, play the new classes or races, do most of the new quests, acquire the new items (unless they are not soulbound), or take advantage of the new graphic upgrades.

However, they will be able to SEE the new classes and races and items (although in some cases they may well get a less-impressive piece of artwork, as was most notably the case when EQ released the Velious expansion). They probably won't be able to exceed the current level cap, either. They won't be segregated from those who do purchase the expansion. That's part of the marketing campaign FOR the expansion; people will see other people playing new classes/races, they'll hear their guildmates talking about the new areas open to them, etc.

Also, I would be deathly surprised if the expansion didn't contain new areas for ALL levels, not just post-60 content.

[Darian]

PS: A tip for the heavy MC, Onyxia and BWL item farmers: Once the WOW expansion is out, and level 70,75, 80 and higher items can drop, you can forget all (epic) boss drops that are currently considered godly by non-expansion standards, because any "green" or "blue" level 75 or 80 item will outperform those easily then. So, don't waste too much time in MC raids but start new characters and enjoy the new experiences ;)
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Except that you may very well need raid gear to be able to succeed in the new post-60 areas, meaning you have to farm it now...

Yay.

[nobbie]

Except that you may very well need raid gear to be able to succeed in the new post-60 areas, meaning you have to farm it now...

Yay.
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I don't think so, because any normal, non-instance area so far can be seamlessly played without special "uber" gear. You may however be right as far as new post-60 INSTANCE areas is concerned.

[Mavfin]

I have to chuckle while reading this thread.

A: This game is about money. It's a time-sink for the players who pay their monthly fee for Blizzard to make money on. It's a business. Never forget that.

B: Petitions won't make spit to Blizzard. If you want to vote negatively, quit the game and take away your money, if you truly think enough of you will quit to make Blizz change their ways. Talking about doing anything else will change nothing. Quitting will probably change nothing, except you won't be playing the game and complaining. You just won't be playing.

C: see A

D: see A

[oldmandennis]

Yeah, the fact that they are working on an expansion is not news. Usually they are released 1 year after the release of the game.

I'd put money on there not being an increase in the level cap. The talent trees are carefully (usually) laid out, and much time and effort has gone into (and continues to go into) balancing them. All of that work on balance is predicated on, for example, shaman not being able to combine Nature's swiftness with Elemental Mastery, for an instant cast critical chain lightning.

As far as heros go, they tossed out the idea of transforming your current character via quests into a hero. For example, a Tauren Warrior might become a Cheftan. However, I don't think that will work either. There are more then 32 race/class combinations, and I doubt they will come up with 32 heros. I hope they don't try, because there would be no way to make that many different, yet balanced.

My guess, coming straight out of my butt, on the heros is that you will have to 1) buy the expansion, and 2) do a long and difficult series of quests in northend or wherever with your main, that will then give you the right to create a brand new baby Blademaster. Maybe there will be a different questline for each hero class, and maybe there will be a progression (only Blademasters can do the quests to unlock the Cheftan, who can unlock the Dark Ranger). Man, that would be a great time sink.

[Quark]

I'd put money on there not being an increase in the level cap.  The talent trees are carefully (usually) laid out, and much time and effort has gone into (and continues to go into) balancing them.  All of that work on balance is predicated on, for example, shaman not being able to combine Nature's swiftness with Elemental Mastery, for an instant cast critical chain lightning.[right][snapback]83833[/snapback][/right]

Yes, but not messing with the current talent tree doesn't completely mean not having a higher level cap. It could be a D&D type thing, where in post-20 levels you are "epic" and the rules change for how a new level is handled.

"Hero" levels could have a different set of things gained from normal levels, thus allowing for a new level cap while not messing up the delicate balance of the talent trees.

[Icebird]

I'm definitely sure there are plans for an expansion. Not sure about the timing though. The high-impact release months are November / December (to cash in on Christmas buying) and I don't know whether they would have an expansion ready by then. The programming teams seem flat out already fixing bugs and introducing the non-expansion content (ZulGurab is due in 1.7 and southern Silithus in 1.9 - tentatively...).

I agree with Oldmandennis. I can't see the level cap being increased without some major changes being to talent trees. They're all balanced for level 60 characters. "Hero" classes might be a a way to provide levl progression for capped players - you switch to some completely new XP / level progression after capping out.

Chris

[bernard shakey]

I have to chuckle while reading this thread.

A: This game is about money.  It's a time-sink for the players who pay their monthly fee for Blizzard to make money on.  It's a business. Never forget that.

B: Petitions won't make spit to Blizzard.  If you want to vote negatively, quit the game and take away your money, if you truly think enough of you will quit to make Blizz change their ways.  Talking about doing anything else will change nothing.  Quitting will probably change nothing, except you won't be playing the game and complaining.  You just won't be playing.

C: see A

D: see A
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First i'll address the complaining (I read whining) well maybe...I am pretty frustrated with my computer right now so game frustrations i don't need. All on stormrage see me popping in and out of the game. this is because my comp. keeps rebooting in between game crashes.

Those are issues with my own hard/software I know but I think I still have a legitimit gripe about the game. I find it hard to believe anyone here is happy about those known bugs being implemented. The problem as I see it is that they have a bunch of screaming yokels on the official boards crying FIX IT NOW FIX IT NOW OR I QUIT. What i'm proposing is that a bunch of more level headed folks get togeather and say "don't fix it now, fix it right"

This isn't an isolated incedent its a pattern of one bug being traded for another one or even two that were often discovered in testing. I know bugs are going to get through undetected, thats inevitable but thats even more reason to fix the ones you know about before they go live.

I even understand that sometimes a minor bug might have to be let through to fix something major but that ought to be explained to us "we don't know why A is happening but we had to leave it for now in order to fix B"

I dont want to quit the game. as a whole I find it an enjoyable time-sink but i need to think as time goes by it's many problems are getting better. steps sidways or backwards chip away at that enjoyment. Am I alone here?

[Mavfin]

First i'll address the complaining (I read whining) well maybe...I am pretty frustrated with my computer right now so game frustrations i don't need. All on stormrage see me popping in and out of the game. this is because my comp. keeps rebooting in between game crashes.

Those are issues with my own hard/software I know but I think I still have a legitimit gripe about the game. I find it hard to believe anyone here is happy about those known bugs being implemented. The problem as I see it is that they have a bunch of screaming yokels on the official boards crying FIX IT NOW FIX IT NOW OR I QUIT. What i'm proposing is that a bunch of more level headed folks get togeather and say "don't fix it now, fix it right"

This isn't an isolated incedent its a pattern of one bug being traded for another one or even two that were often discovered in testing. I know bugs are going to get through undetected, thats inevitable but thats even more reason to fix the ones you know about before they go live.

I even understand that sometimes a minor bug might have to be let through to fix something major but that ought to be explained to us "we don't know why A is happening but we had to leave it for now in order to fix B"

I dont want to quit the game. as a whole I find it an enjoyable time-sink but i need to think as time goes by it's many problems are getting better. steps sidways or backwards chip away at that enjoyment. Am I alone here?
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Understand that I didn't aim that post at anyone. I was only pointing out the realities inherent in the situation. You can quit playing if the problems bother you enough, but Blizz will do as Blizz pleases no matter what you do. They need to fix instance stability real soon, or they're going to lose some people, but other than that, the rest of the bugs aren't that big a deal to 'Joe User'

[Jarulf]

Probably the same way everyone else ever has.

With the new expansion will come new areas, new character classes, new playable races, new quests, new items, and possibly even new level limits and new graphics software upgrades.

Yes, I know what would be in there, the question was about having people on the same server running both expansion and non expansion. This means you must provide a VERY large patch for non expansion players to be able to show all this new things (even if they can't use it).

They probably won't be able to exceed the current level cap, either.  They won't be segregated from those who do purchase the expansion.  That's part of the marketing campaign FOR the expansion; people will see other people playing new classes/races, they'll hear their guildmates talking about the new areas open to them, etc.

And that works just how as far as PvP goes? You will tell all the ones not getting the expansion that, sure, play, but you will never have a chance or go at it since you will not reach as high level or get as good gear as you would if you pay extra for expansion?

How do you rebalance EXISTING areas for higher level chars (with better iterms, new skills and so on) while not making it hopless for those that stays with standard game. Look at main cities and the level of NPCs, guards and so on. You either get expansion layers treat the main cities as a newbie area (NPC wise), or make it impossible for non expansion players to ever be able to go there and so on. There are probably many other such areas, expamples I can't think of right now since I have not got to that many places in game, nor had high level chars.

THAT was what I asked about when wondering how others did it.

[Darian]

Understand, I'm not saying any of this is The Way It Should Be, just pointing out the reality. It would be great if you could have massive expansions to a game without impacting those who don't opt into the expansion, but there's no way to have an expansion which is balanced against non-expansion players AND expand the game for people who've already gone as far as they can go with their main character without segregating those players from one another. It's simply not possible. So, I do see where you're coming from, and I even sympathize with it, but unfortunately the realities and economics of the situation aren't pointed in the same direction you're looking.

Yes, I know what would be in there, the question was about having people on the same server running both expansion and non expansion. This means you must provide a VERY large patch for non expansion players to be able to show all this new things (even if they can't use it).[right][snapback]83907[/snapback][/right]

Yes. Previous MMOs have, in general, released a massive patch the day the expansion hits the shelves. The people who buy the expansion often don't even get to bypass the patch, since there's invariably some bug that's been discovered in between Golden Master and release.

And that works just how as far as PvP goes? You will tell all the ones not getting the expansion that, sure, play, but you will never have a chance or go at it since you will not reach as high level or get as good gear as you would if you pay extra for expansion?

Yep, pretty much. That's what's happened with every other MMO I've seen. If you didn't buy the first EQ expansion, within a week you were non-competitive.

How do you rebalance EXISTING areas for higher level chars (with better iterms, new skills and so on) while not making it hopless for those that stays with standard game.  Look at main cities and the level of NPCs, guards and so on. You either get expansion layers treat the main cities as a newbie area (NPC wise), or make it impossible for non expansion players to ever be able to go there and so on. There are probably many other such areas, expamples I can't think of right now since I have not got to that many places in game, nor had high level chars.

THAT was what I asked about when wondering how others did it.

Can't think of any previous MMO expansion which even concerned itself with that. In EQ, before the first expansion Freeport was full of level 50 characters; afterward, it was full of level 60 characters. The controlling factor was game economy. When the items you need at level 60 cost so much that it's only time- and cost-effective to farm the areas which the non-expansion players can't get to, you do end up with a level (albeit an imperfect level) of de facto segregation on the same server.

Anyway... now for the business reasons.

It is not in any game company's interest to balance things for the people who don't purchase the expansion. Yes, I know there's an argument as to why they should, and I'll get to why it's not a good argument in a moment.

No previous MMO has really bothered to balance this way as far as I'm aware. Hell, with EQ, if you didn't buy their first expansion (Kunark) you couldn't level past 50. Right there, you were being relegated to second-class citizenry, since you sure weren't going to be able to do anything to a level 60.

As to the argument for why they should bother balancing, it's pretty simple: of the customer base, there are six sorts of people:

1) People who bought the game, played it for awhile, and then just quit (usually soon enough that the company actually made more money from selling the software than from subscription fees)
2) People who are still paying for the game but aren't really playing
3) People who are going to buy the expansion, period, because they've burned out the existing content and need new things to do in the game -- which, by the time an expansion is released, is usually the largest segment of the active game population
4) People who aren't really that concerned with the new content so much as they can't stand the thought of other people having the content while they don't
5) People who don't want to buy the expansion, but will anyway because they still want to be able to play with their friends who are buying the expansion and will be spending all their time in the new areas you can only get to with the expansion
6) People who are actively playing but don't want to have to buy an expansion, and won't.

Category 1 is either no more money in the bank anyway, or a chance to lure them back in again and start the cash register dinging again. (You'd be amazed at how many people I personally know who bought EQ, played it for three months, quit, then decided to try again when a new expansion came out, played for three months, quit, then decided to try again when a new expansion came out, played for three months, quit, then decided to try again when a new expansion came out, played for three months, quit, then decided to try again when a new expansion came out, played for three months... you get the idea.)

Category 2 is money in the bank regardless of whether you release the expansion or not. Categories 3, 4, and 5 are even more money in the bank, because there's another 40-50 bucks on top of the continuing monthly fee.

In the MMO culture, the number of people who fit into Category 6 is -- or, at least, is perceived to be on a corporate level, and since they know where the money's coming from one must presume they're right -- so insignificant as to be irrelevant to their planning. It may well be evil, but the pressure on people who wish to continue playing the game to purchase the expansion is enormous, even if they did manage to make players who don't purchase it remain viable in competition with those who do.

In fact, from a development and business perspective, it's really no different than any other standard software upgrade. The expansion would, for all intents and purposes, be WoW v2.0. v1 still gets "supported," in that they'll fix bugs and grudgingly allow people to continue using it until the situation becomes such that they HAVE to sunset it, but from their perspective, they want everyone to "upgrade." The people who don't buy the expansion are a drain on development and customer service resources which could be better applied to moving forward.

So you've got four key reasons why there most certainly will be expansions, and why they won't segregate:

1) Money money money
2) Support and development
3) The game economy will work toward some level of segregation without having to enforce it, as the post-expansion players will tend to spend most of their time in areas the pre-expansion players can't get to anyway
4) The one I haven't mentioned yet -- socialization. People don't like doing things like changing servers as a general rule, unless everyone they play with is going with them. People don't want to be ripped away from their comrades over something as simple as "I bought the expansion and they didn't." If your friends have the expansion and you don't, you can at least still socialize with them, and while some people are inherently soloists and don't give a damn about such things, the majority of MMO players do to some degree (else they wouldn't be playing an MMO).

[Mavfin]

Nice post. Good grasp on reality.

[bschultz]

The shoddy implimentation of 1.6 certenly dosn't motivate me to buy an exp. for this game. In fact I believe its time for a mass petition to be signed and sent to blizzard, stating that " if major bugs are detected on the test relm and patched in anyways then I am going to cancel my account."  enough is enough, I cant see any reason to have rushed this patch and i find it insulting
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Hi I dont post often any more but this post i found to be pretty intresting. Since when has a petition to a game company done anything? Also its intresting that you were actually insulted by the patch.

I realise that we do all really get into playing WoW. I mean thats why we are here posting on this forum. but maybe taking a step back and taking all things into consideration might be something we could try. You know... for a fresh perspective. :)

As opposed to the "I'm leaving whos comming with me!?" posts that do not add anything constructive to the discussion.

[MongoJerry]

Just a couple of fast comments before I have to leave:

1. Of course, Blizzard is working on an expansion. "Everyone" seems to know that it has something to do with Northrend. I don't know if there's been an official announcement about it, but at least that bit of information has leaked out and is pervasive enough that it's probably true.

2. There were some comments here about how an expansion might increase the character level to 65 or something like it. This comes from the fact that this is what Everquest and other MMORPG's have done -- every time an expansion came out, they increased the level cap. It is entirely possible that World of Warcraft will do this, since it works well as a nice big slashy announcement. However, it needs to be pointed out that such a move would not be that big of a deal for World of Warcaft. With Everquest and other such MMORPG's, it took an enormous amount of time and effort to be level capped and one's level largely determined how powerful you are. WoW, however, was designed to make it fairly easy for the general player to become level capped. As the game designers have said, (paraphrasing) the journey to level 60 is only the first stage of your character. Once you reach level 60, one continues to level through the items one finds.

As I said, it's entirely possible that the level cap will be raised, but in many ways I think doing so would be more trouble than it's worth. The way WoW is designed, it'll take about a week for the everyday player to go from level 60 to level 65 and a couple of weeks for the weekend warriors. Meanwhile, lots of things will suddenly become unbalanced. Do we get talent points with those extra levels? If so, lots of careful balancing of talents will have to be redone. Will raid level bosses like Onyxia and those in the Molten Core get a big level and power boost to reflect the much more powerful player opponents they'll be facing? What about all those high end instances like Dire Maul, Stratholme, and Scholomance? Are they going to be thrown into the dustbin like the Sunken Temple, because they're too low of a level for anyone to bother with anymore?

Like I said, the level cap might very well be raised simply for the publicity value of it, but doing so doesn't seem worth it to me.