New WoW Machine

[Drasca]

PS:
Thermaltake Silent PurePower ATX 12V 2.0 Plus EPS (W0049)
2 at $140.00 Total: $280.00
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS-W0049&c=pw

Total spent: $2,443.13
Surplus from $2500: $56.87 (Just enough for some Scotch to lubricate the assembly process :)
--Pete
[right][snapback]86428[/snapback][/right]

Does Magi like Scotch too?

Though the PS is pricey, it *is* the heart of your computer, and new GFX cards are a huge power suck by themselves. There should be no regret taking a pricey high end PS. Take a look at anandtech's power consumption comparison charts. While it may not be the same brand, you'll see here the 6800GT takes up 108 watts while idle and 210 while under load. Those aren't kid-gloves.

My own 6600GT AGP is running off a Enermax Noisetaker 420W, but it has issues coming out of standby mode (and certain games...) which I think is related to PS not supplying enough for the power demand. I am unsure. You certainly won't have any power issues, which ultimately plague high end gfx cards and CPU's when not enough. You certainly do have a better system for it.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Does Magi like Scotch too?

When I first met her, thirty years ago, she said that she didn't. Then I discovered that some one had given her Cutty Sark and told her it was scotch! Well, I immediately introduced her to a well aged single malt, and she's loved it ever since (neat, of course). ;)

. . . There should be no regret taking a pricey high end PS. . . .
[right][snapback]86462[/snapback][/right]

Yep, I think so, too. In the past I've had to upgrade my power supplies on almost all my systems. I suspect that, in the long run, going with a good supply at the start might even be cheaper than buying a poor one and eventually replacing it with a mediocre one. :)

--Pete

[Roland]

Yep, I think so, too.  In the past I've had to upgrade my power supplies on almost all my systems.  I suspect that, in the long run, going with a good supply at the start might even be cheaper than buying a poor one and eventually replacing it with a mediocre one. :)

--Pete

I speak from experience when I say that is a definite affirmative.

[-Magi]

Hi,

Well, it's in the mail (or, more likely, in UPS or FedEx). What I ended up ordering is somewhat different from the first cut choices I posted last week. Most of those changes were made because of your comments and suggestions. And for that I thank you all very much, these will be much better computers for your input. So, here's the parts list, comments follow:

OS:
Windows XP Home w/SP2
2 at $81.00 Total: $162.00
http://www.bestbargainpc.com/index.asp?P...tegory=230

Case:
Skyhawk AL-ATX4377DT-BK All Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Case, Black
2 at $34.99 Total: $69.98
http://www.dealsonic.com/sk43allalatx.html

PS:
Thermaltake Silent PurePower ATX 12V 2.0 Plus EPS (W0049)
2 at $140.00 Total: $280.00
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS-W0049&c=pw

Mobo:
ASUS A8N-E
2 at $112.00 Total: $224.00
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDet...pricewatch

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
2 at $218.00 Total: $436.00
http://store.yahoo.com/pcmemory-stores/c...64939.html

CPU cooler:
ThermalTake CL-P0075 AMD Athlon 64 FX55 939pin CPU Cooler W/Heatpipe
2 at $34.00 Total: $68.00
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=FAN-CLP075&c=pw

Memory:
Kingston KIN-KVR400X64C3A/512 400MHz DDR (2 sticks for 1 GB)
4 at $47.49 Total: $189.96
http://www.3gplaza.com/estore/control/Co...s?id=31822

Video:
AOpen Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
2 at $299.00 Total: $598.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...rds#DetailSpecs

HD:
Western Digital 160GB SATA 7200rpm 8MB OEM WD1600JD
4 at $69.00 Total: $276.00
http://www.bestbargainpc.com/index.asp?P...=GO&Page=1

DVD-RW:
NEC ND-3520A
2 at $47.00 Total: $94.00
http://www.bestbargainpc.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=2928

Floppy:
Sony 1.44 FLOPPY W/BLACK BAZEL
2 at $8.50 Total: $17.00
http://www.bestbargainpc.com/index.asp?P...rodID=1479

S&H from Best Bargin PC: $4.90
S&H from Deal sonic: $23.29

Total spent: $2,443.13
Surplus from $2500: $56.87 (Just enough for some Scotch to lubricate the assembly process

OS: I could have done better here if I'd bought one without the 'Certificate of Authenticity', but I figure the software pirating countries are doing well enough without my infinitesimal aid.

PS: Following the good advice of Roland, and after looking at the abysmal performance of many power supplies tested at THG, I bit the bullet and paid almost 50% more for a PS that will (I hope) do the job.

Mobo: After waffling back and fourth between SLI and non-SLI motherboards, I went for the non-SLI after deciding to go with a single video card (more under 'Video' below). Because I tend not to mess with stable systems, the potential for expansion just wasn't really worth it.

CPU: Dropping from the 3800+ to the 3500+ freed up almost $90 which I used to beef up the PS and video. The performance hit was minimal (thanks to Dozer, Quark, and Concillian for that discussion).

CPU cooler: Minor change that saved a couple of bucks. Besides, I couldn't find the CL-P0200 again when I went to buy it. Necessity's a mother

Memory: This may eventually get upgraded, in spite of what I said above.

Video: Going from the 6600 to the 6800 was quite a hit in the wallet and soaked up he savings on the CPU. Thanks to the input from Concillian, I revisited the video card game data on THG. I was ready to go the 2x6600 SLI mode, but closer examination makes me think that the single 6800 route is better for the games I play.

HD: Decided to go the RAID 0 route after all. Two of these drives give me about 20GB more than the single Seagate for $15 per system less. While RAID 0 does not seem to improve game performance, neither should it hurt it. Sorry, Concillian. I guess this is one time when I'll have to get bitten before I become shy.

As always, comments, etc., appreciated. But remember, these decisions have now been cast in the stone of shipping and restocking fees. After everything gets here, I'll make one or more posts about how things have gone and are going.

--Pete

Hello Computer Helping Lurkers!

I was glad to find this post and thread. Way back when, --Pete actually ordered parts for these two computers. He only got one completely assembled. That one became my gaming machine and I have been very happy with it.

However the raid drives now seem to have a problem. I have two drives and on start up (Pete thoughtfully set it up so that I can see all those message instead of just a blank screen) I see red text indicating that there are problems with the raid drives. One says error and the other says degraded. WoW still runs and the only symptom I have is that my computer starts and shuts down slowly. It may impact my game as well, as I seem to be taking a long time going through portals. I fear though that if I don't do something, one day I will hit the power button and the computer won't boot up.

--Pete was my computer guy, happily (usually) doing all the actual work on building and maintaining our computers. Since he is no longer here, I am coming to you all with a request for advice as to my best course of action.

Can these drives be repaired or do they need to be replaced?

I bet I can find the other two identical drives he ordered. If I can and the solution is to swap out the old drives with the new ones is this something I can do myself - or would I need to take it to a shop?

I have been happy with this machine, and have not been thinking about getting it replaced - but all the parts were ordered in 2005. Would I be better off replacing the machine for gaming? There are some new games coming that I think I will be interested in, and I wonder if the old machine will be good enough for them.

Thank you for your assistance!

-Magi

[Taem]

I [had] an Asus A8N motherboard myself. From what you quoted, Pete said the Raid configuration didn't really help with game speed, so if Raid is not that big of a deal for you, then I would disable it in the BIOS. Since my computer died a terrible death a few months back, I won't be able to walk you through this, but I do have a general idea; when you boot up, hit F12 (or F10) and mess with the configurations that come up for Raid, and more specific for turning Raid off. After you do this, when you reboot the PC, and let the onscreen text go, a message for a separate Raid configuration comes up on boot with the A8N motherboard and says to press F6 (I think) on boot to change the Raid status, but I don't know if this is necessary if you change it in the BIOS first. Anyways, fiddling with these should get rid of your warning message. The reason you are getting that warning is because one of your drives not mirroring properly - perhaps it is going bad? One last thing... on my A8N motherboard, I had to set my Sata drives on the Raid 1 through Raid 4 ports, which were separate from the standard Sata 1 through 4 ports (there are 8-sata ports, but 4 are four Raid), so you may have to move those drives to the standard Sata ports. Sorry I can't be of more help. I hope you find my knowledge useful.

[DeeBye]

I have been happy with this machine, and have not been thinking about getting it replaced - but all the parts were ordered in 2005. Would I be better off replacing the machine for gaming? There are some new games coming that I think I will be interested in, and I wonder if the old machine will be good enough for them.

Thank you for your assistance!

If you use that machine for gaming, I would really look at replacing it. What you have is not horrible, but a 2005 machine is really ancient. I doubt you would get decent performance on any of the new games coming out.

[LavCat]

If you use that machine for gaming, I would really look at replacing it. What you have is not horrible, but a 2005 machine is really ancient. I doubt you would get decent performance on any of the new games coming out.

I think for once DeeBye may be correct.

[kandrathe]

I think for once DeeBye may be correct.

* snicker * 2nd'd

[Drasca]

Magi, do you still like Scotch?

After 5 years of use, your Hard Drives are beginning their retirement age. They have an indeterminable amount of time left. They could last another 5 years or 5 minutes, but it would be a good idea to back up anything important.

I think taking a hard drive from the un-built machine (or ordering a new one), and transferring your files over is in order. I know there is a way to copy the entire drive for free, but I am not an expert in it, as I use 3rd party programs to do the work for me.

[DeeBye]

I think for once DeeBye may be correct.

* snicker * 2nd'd

I hate the lot of you.

[-Magi]

I do still like Scotch! Maybe I need some.

I kept that machine for games only and did not have time for many, so it likely just has D1, D2 and WoW on it and my game e-mail. Not to bad to copy and not too bad if I don't. I will do some research and see if I can figure out how to copy the drives and how to swap them. Then it sounds like I should convert the renovated machine into an office desktop and get a new machine for gaming! I like the sound of that.

Guess I better start learning about computers - old and new. I needed a hobby or two. Do you think I can put one together myself? I saw an article in a magazine once in 2006 that showed how to do it! Maybe I should wait and see how I do swapping the drives. (Pretty much joking about doing the assembly myself, unless you all tell me it is easier than I think. My real plan is to see what I can buy now-days with a reasonable budget. Probably not as good as what could be built, but likely a lot better than what I am using.)

Thank you all for your replies.

-Magi-

ps. I am really a posting newbie. Feel free to give me tips. I think I pulled this whole thread to the front of the forum and I don't know if there was another way. I was very happy to find the post where Pete listed what he bought because that was the best way I could think of to let you know what my system was.

[LavCat]

I do still like Scotch! Maybe I need some.

This afternoon I bought some Calvados, mainly for a chicken recipe. Sampling a glass at the moment. Not bad but I think in my youth I drank older Calvados.

As far as putting together a computer, if you can use a screwdriver it is probably easier than you think. The fun part, and sometimes the challenging part, is selecting the components.

[Bolty]

Guess I better start learning about computers - old and new. I needed a hobby or two. Do you think I can put one together myself? I saw an article in a magazine once in 2006 that showed how to do it! Maybe I should wait and see how I do swapping the drives. (Pretty much joking about doing the assembly myself, unless you all tell me it is easier than I think. My real plan is to see what I can buy now-days with a reasonable budget. Probably not as good as what could be built, but likely a lot better than what I am using.)

Putting a computer together isn't THAT difficult if you're patient and willing to read up. It's actually harder to shop for and buy all the components, because you need to make sure everything works together before you buy it. It's enormously easier to buy a pre-built machine, and the little extra you pay to have some company assemble it for you is often made up by the cheaper cost of software such as the O/S.

Even still, if you do want to take it up as a hobby:

[video=youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw[/video]

I'd personally recommend buying a Dell computer or one from Newegg (perhaps in their do-it-yourself combo section). Newegg's combo section takes away some of the pain of shopping for parts, as they've picked out combinations for you that you can buy and just put together.

ps. I am really a posting newbie. Feel free to give me tips. I think I pulled this whole thread to the front of the forum and I don't know if there was another way. I was very happy to find the post where Pete listed what he bought because that was the best way I could think of to let you know what my system was.

I think it's sweet that you could find this old post of his and revive it. Pete has a heck of a legacy on this forum.

[Tal]

I'd personally recommend buying a Dell computer or one from Newegg (perhaps in their do-it-yourself combo section). Newegg's combo section takes away some of the pain of shopping for parts, as they've picked out combinations for you that you can buy and just put together.

Seconding that notion.

[Drasca]

Do you think I can put one together myself? I saw an article in a magazine once in 2006 that showed how to do it!

Yes! It is a lot easier today than ever.

http://www.youtube.com/user/newegg

On the link above, Newegg has posted video tutorials and guides where they walk you through almost every step of the process. If you go to the link above, then click playlists, that will bring you to their list of video tutorials for building your own computer, and explaining various computer components in a very friendly fashion.

Also down below is in written format, step by step, what to do, from Tomshardware.com

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/buil...,2601.html

Pete linked me to tomshardware originally and I've come full circle giving it to you. The guide covers every step involved, from choosing what kind of computer you want, the parts involved, selecting motherboard, memory, and other parts, to putting them all together, and installing software.

There are a lot of suggested builds for 600$ budget 1200$ for system builder marathons almost every month, that give good examples of what you could do.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/How-...ur-Own,16/

That links to their build your own links in general. Here's the one for the 600$ gaming PC in December, which can link to their other december builds as well, and discussion about it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core...,3097.html

Note there are also a lot of deals from say, newegg.com's email list, or logic buy, or what not, for refurbished and clearance sales. They can potentially be a good deal. For example, I saw last year's Asus G74SW series laptop for 800$, which will run a LOT of games at med-high settings, when to get the equivalent price would cost a lot more.

Build-Your-Own, however, can be a really fun hobby, and I know Pete liked to advocate that (as seen previously in this thread). So I think you'd have fun going over what parts you want, and perhaps having enough money left over budgeted for the computer for some nice scotch.

[HowGozit]

I'm with Bolty and others - look at Dell (XPS range tends to have the gaming stuff), and spring for the 2 or 3 year on site warranty. I mean, seriously, a techo will show up at your house and replace bits if they fail... (They replaced my wife's laptop keyboard on her laptop about 5 years ago - they did some stuff for me at work back when we bought Dell's). There were a couple of XPS machines at around the $899 mark when I looked (no screen), and the warranty bump would only cost another $100-200. Even the cheap ones were way over the spec for a 2005 PC.

Looking at the spec for those machines, the disk size is a bit down on current sizes. 1TB is common now (I actually find that I can't buy anything smaller than 250GB now - I needed them for some servers I was building recently). The video will sort of work for current games, but it would need to be detuned.

Building computers is a fine hobby - but the crunch comes when you are debugging component failure. I may be a bit sensitive about that, as there are 2 desktops and one multimedia PC in the house, and they lose the plot at different times. (And you do NOT want to be around when the TV stops working in my house due to a failing hard drive - ask me how I know ).

If you want to build one. Windows 7 home premium is fine as an OS, around 1+ TB of drive(s), at least 4GB of RAM, and something around the ATI Radeon 6850 or better or Nvidia GTX 560 mark will last you for years. I'd seriously consider buying a 2nd hand or old 19" 4:3 LCD flat screen. All games will work on a 4:3 screen - but you tend to have to tweak older ones to work with a widescreen. (Having said that - new games REALLY look good in a widescreen). 22" older LCD's at 1680x1050 (16:10 ratio) cover most of the games since about 2008. Only the really new games support 1920x1080 (HD) or 1920x1200 (older 24" widescreen).

HowGozit

[-Magi]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...ngItemName

If I did it right maybe the link above will take you to the latest offer I received from Costso. I wanted to compare what Costco has to what Dell offers and I get confused. So - I will keep it simple .... does this one look like a good deal? Anyone want to check out Dell's offerings and see if there is something better at that price or even up to $200 more. I have monitors...quite a few. They are not wide screen, but I am assuming that I can use the ones I have now and upgrade more later. I am pretty sure that my sound system has 6 speakers and guess that would work with this.

Any reviewers and advisors? Thanks!

[DeeBye]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...ngItemName

Intel i7, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD, Blu-ray drive, $800? That looks like a great deal to me. I doubt I could build a machine with similar stats for that money.

[Taem]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...ngItemName

Intel i7, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD, Blu-ray drive, $800? That looks like a great deal to me. I doubt I could build a machine with similar stats for that money.

A great buy, but you will definitely want to upgrade your video card! <-- That links shows how the video card in that system does on 3D gaming. I'm sure others can point you in the right direction here.

Also worth mentioning, a 460w power supply is a bit weak for what your system could be pulling, especially with a new video card. I'd recommend a 600w minimum.

You can purchase both the video card and power supply from Frys or Best Buy /and/ have them do the installation for a mere $50 for you the last time I checked, that is if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself. Just my 2-cents.

[DeeBye]

A great buy, but you will definitely want to upgrade your video card! <-- That links shows how the video card in that system does on 3D gaming. I'm sure others can point you in the right direction here.

The AMD 6850 is a very good performer at a decent price. Link

Also worth mentioning, a 460w power supply is a bit weak for what your system could be pulling, especially with a new video card. I'd recommend a 600w minimum.

You need to REALLY be careful about judging power supplies based solely on wattage ratings. There are roughly 8 bajillion terrible 1000 watt PSUs made by shady manufacturers on the market that you want to stay very far away from. You need to look for good brands like Antec, Seasonic and Corsair. This Corsair PSU will definitely be enough for you. Here's a cheaper Antec PSU that should also be just fine.

Note that if you aren't going to be gaming at high resolutions (1920x1080 +), you can really scale back a lot on the video card and PSU department. That AMD 6450 might be enough.

If I was in your shoes I'd buy that Dell XPS 8300 and try it out with the monitor you have. Crank up the graphics options on your favourite game to maximum and see how it goes. That computer absolutely won't be limited by CPU or RAM - the bottleneck will definitely be all in the video card. If things are choppy or slower than you'd like, you have a nice upgrade path in the video card and PSU departments.