Here are some New Orleans webcams

[jahcs]

There is always debate on restoring areas hit by natural disasters - mostly by people who don't live there but pay taxes that end up distributed there.

Tornado and hurricane prone areas are devastated and rebuilt time and time again, often with the same shoddy craftsmanship that isn't even remotely close to what would be needed to stand a chance in the storms.

[Guest]

Tornados are not the same.
They can hit any where in a huge area and do extreme damage but in a confined area.

Hurricanes can be predicted - every coast down there is eventually hit.

But New Orleans is a special case among potential hurricane targets - its below see level. Its silly building there much like its silly to build in a flood plane.

[Minionman]

I agree with you, but if you were a longtime resident I suspect you'd want to rebuild.  Whose idea was it to build NO underwater anyways?  They must have got that idea off of those crazy dutch people.
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Actually, it was french (I'm pretty sure), so if freedom fries are still bouncing around in your head, here's something to file away there.



It's pretty strange, actually, how this huge hurricane has wiped out New Orleans and southern Mississippi, and is now moving across the rest of the eastern U.S., and nothing has happened where I am. (I get the weather reasons, still strange anyway.)

[Occhidiangela]

Actually, the buildings in New Orleans are flooding, not destroyed.  The structural integrity is sound.  Is Venice worth saving?  This area is home to 500-700 K people and is one of the largest cities in the US.
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Led Zepplin song "When the Levee Breaks"

A lyric?

"When the levee breaks
Won't have no place to stay."

I was living in eastern Kansas in the summer of 1993. Army Corps of engineer levees did OK, a lot of private levees broke, From Iowa to St Louis along the Missouri River. Parts of KC were under water, but NOTHING like what happened to New Orleans.

This is what FEMA is paid to deal with. Hope they do well.

Occhi

[whyBish]

I disagree.  You'd be amazed at how people bond together in the face of natural disaster.
Occhi
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I never picked you for an optimist on human nature :P

I've only lived through two natural disasters (One cyclone, one volcanic eruption), and the community did pull together, but it was a small (5k pop.), close, and (relatively) cohesive society to begin with due to its isolation (2hr drive to nearest town)

Not sure how it will pan out for such a large diverse population...

[eppie]

Actually, it was french (I'm pretty sure), so if freedom fries are still bouncing around in your head, here's something to file away there.
It's pretty strange, actually, how this huge hurricane has wiped out New Orleans and southern Mississippi, and is now moving across the rest of the eastern U.S., and nothing has happened where I am.  (I get the weather reasons, still strange anyway.)
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Well in principal you can build below sea level. Only you'd better have a very good system of dikes and dams. In Holand we had a disaster in 1953 after which we started building a giant stormflood barrier. (when heavy winds push water in the Channel water levels can rise quite a lot). These things will become increasingly more important with the rising sea levels because of the greenhouse effect.

The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much.

[Guest]

Holland doesnt get Hurricanes. These "prinipals" dont apply.

And as to "The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much." It appears you dont know a great deal about this situation much less about the hurricanes that hit the US coast every year.

[Lady Vashj]

Actually, it was french (I'm pretty sure), so if freedom fries are still bouncing around in your head, here's something to file away there.

The Netherlands are mostly below sea level. They've been reclaiming chunks of land from the sea for centuries.

If rebuilding was to go ahead, I would suggest hurricane safety codes akin to earthquake safety codes in California. They will come, so plan for them.

[eppie]

Holland doesnt get Hurricanes. These "prinipals" dont apply.

You don't need a hurricane to flood a country. So I don't really understand what you're pointing at. The half of Bangladesh also flood every year, that country is more or less build around a delta. You know why it flood, because they don't have reasonable dikes there.

And as to "The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much." It appears you dont know a great deal about this situation much less about the hurricanes that hit the US coast every year.
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Well listen, this is not about me knowing much about hurricanes but I believe these were the facts. At least so we were told on the news. I don't see any reason why they should lie about that. So again, what is your point?

[Minionman]

The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much.
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Yes, plus the fact that hurricanes tend to go east after hitting land. That was the point of the last sentence of the paragraph.

[Occhidiangela]

I never picked you for an optimist on human nature  :P

I've only lived through two natural disasters (One cyclone, one volcanic eruption), and the community did pull together, but it was a small (5k pop.), close, and (relatively) cohesive society to begin with due to its isolation (2hr drive to nearest town)

Not sure how it will pan out for such a large diverse population...
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During the flood, I was down at the Missouri River's edge, filling sand bags and trying to save the community center on a dark and stormy night. The river's current was running at just under 7 knots. We managed. The comeraderie was incredible.

The news reports from the Superdome are mixed. Mostly folks handled it well, though a few lost their cool as the ventilation broke down and the toilets backed up. The folks helping them seem to have gotten most of them out and many to the Houston Astrodome, which has been cleared of events until December. I expect FEMA will pick up the tab.

Occhi

[jahcs]

The news reports from the Superdome are mixed.  Mostly folks handled it well, though a few lost their cool as the ventilation broke down and the toilets backed up.  The folks helping them seem to have gotten most of them out and many to the Houston Astrodome, which has been cleared of events until December.  I expect FEMA will pick up the tab.

Occhi
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Hopefully this will be a clue to the 'Right Now!' generation we have in America that this will be a long process of recovery.

[Guest]

You have confused what you were told with the "facts".

You said. "And as to "The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much."

1 Thats the way all huricanes work when they hit land - so of course that limits the damage - you present this a special fact its not.

2 This Hurricane didnt directly hit New Orleans. The bad flooding occurred after the hurricane when the levy broke(which was due to the hurricane). The bad flooding is the issue I addressed.

3 Actually Mississippi where the center of the Hurricane hit DID sustain utterly massive damage. Direct damage from the wind is unavoidable in any coasta area - not i also did not address this. However the after math is not such a continous disaster




You jumped in a converstation where you did not know the facts and showed your ignoreece.

It may be reasonable to build below sea level in an area that doesnt have massive storms. That does not mean it is an area like the south eastern US coast. Storms are a fact of life there and are a principal element themselves.

[kandrathe]

But New Orleans is a special case among potential hurricane targets - its below see level. Its silly building there much like its silly to build in a flood plane.
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Special case; like the Netherlands. I'll put it this way... New Orleans will be refurbished and repaired whether or not it is a good idea.

[Guest]

That may well be it likely will be rebuild to a large degree.

But I dont think that Northern Europe is a valid example for how to build in an area plagued by hurricanes.

[DeeBye]

Here's a really interesting read.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

It's a blog of several employees of a webhosting company located in NO.
http://www.directnic.com/

They are still providing hosting to customers through the use of a giant diesel generator and some amazing determination.

In the blog you can read about what it's like for them trying to pull this off in the midst of absolute chaos. They have photos and a live video feed.

[DeeBye]

Here's a really interesting read.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

It's a blog of several employees of a webhosting company located in NO.
http://www.directnic.com/

They are still providing hosting to customers through the use of a giant diesel generator and some amazing determination.

In the blog you can read about what it's like for them trying to pull this off in the midst of absolute chaos.  They have photos and a live video feed.
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MSNBC has posted a story about this group of people.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9164073/

[eppie]

You have confused what you were told with the "facts".

You said. "And as to "The hurricane decreased in power quite quickly, from a type 5 to a type one in a few hours. That's why the rest of the eastern US wasn't damaged too much."

1 Thats the way all huricanes work when they hit land - so of course that limits the damage - you present this a special fact its not.

I did not present this is a special fact, I gave this as the reason why there is no damage where minionman lives. Maybe I did not understand his "joke question", if that is the fact, sorry for trying to answer the question, I will never do it again.

2 This Hurricane didnt directly hit New Orleans. The bad flooding occurred after the hurricane when the levy broke(which was due to the hurricane). The bad flooding is the issue I addressed.

That is all very well, but as I said, I replied on minionmans post, not on yours.

3 Actually Mississippi where the center of the Hurricane hit DID sustain utterly massive damage. Direct damage from the wind is unavoidable in any coasta area - not i also did not address this. However the after math is not such a continous disaster
You jumped in a converstation where you did not know the facts and showed your ignoreece.

Yes I know Mississippi was hit hard as well. We also have television and journalists. And I don't see a reason why somebody from Oregon should know more about these things than somebody from Holland. And I still did not tell anythings that were not true. As I said I might have been fooled by Minionmans trick question, but that might be more a case of not understanding such things in another language than my own. (sarcasm, irony). So I find you stating that "I show my ignorance (if you mean that word) a tad overdone. Here you are already using three posts to convince me of something...but I still don't know what it is that you try to convince me off. Is it that I think I'm ignorant? If so why don't you PM that to me. :D

It may be reasonable to build below sea level in an area that doesnt have massive storms. That does not mean it is an area like the south eastern US coast. Storms are a fact of life there and are a principal element themselves.
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No really is that so? Are you now also suggesting that I have been living under a rock for the past 20 years? Or that the media in holland are not good?

I will explain again. Disaster can happen everywhere, even floods. We had one big one in 1953, after that we took measures, invested loads of money, and up till now it works....but who knows what might happen. New Orleans apparantly is on such a nice location that people want to live there, and are living there allready for a few 100 years. But certain extreme things might always happen. So do you now want to blame all those millions of government officials and inhabitants who over the years lived in New Orleans and build up the city, that it is their fault that they did that or something?

But as I said before this is all a question of risk calculation. Millions of people are living in California in areas of which everybody says that any moment a super earthquacke can occur, but it has anyway so many advantages to live there that people take the risk. That how it was always going and that is how it will always be going.


Back to the subject: to occhi.

The images I see here on teh news are terrible. Especially in New Orleans, people don't seem to be getting a long all the time. I hope they will get them out there a.s.a.p. Also broken sewer systems and high temperature might make the situation even worse.

[kandrathe]

That may well be it likely will be rebuild to a large degree.

But I dont think that Northern Europe is a valid example for how to build in an area plagued by hurricanes.
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You missed the flooding problems they've had there then.

[kandrathe]

... and showed your ignoreece.

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:D Classic.

I'd give him some credit, seeing that he lives in Holland, for knowing a little bit about dikes/levees and how they might break. The levees in New Oreleans were not blown down, they collapsed due to water pressure and water overflowing and weakening their bases.