Insane Cloth Posse Adventures!

[vor_lord]

So what if a party was made up of nothing but cloth wearers?

How successful would they be? How badly do you really need a tank? How far could you get in the game?

We've been kicking around this idea for months. The recent influx of several newcomers to our Terenas guild gave us an excuse to level some new characters that could help fill in groups for lower level instances.

However, the main point is to run instances as a group of five banded together. We'll use maximum CC and maximum damage output on the single target not CC'd. We'll be developing and documenting our tactics as they evolve. I'll be posting things about our adventures here in the hopes they are of interest to others. We're just learning how to take decent screenshots (so far no one has been remembering to take screenshots at interesting moments) but we'll get better. Any suggestions for improvement on the presentation will be appreciated.


The rules!

For this kind of experiment a few things about our look and behavior also had to be discussed. All told, the rules are:

1. Must wear cloth! And by this I don't mean some kind of cloth-wearing shaman monstrosity (shields? shields?????? wimps!). This means priest, mage, and warlock are the only valid class choices. The idea of any set of classes that must wear cloth is an interesting one, but that's not what we're doing. We also wanted to make sure we played classes that interested us, so we didn't put any restriction on our class choice other than it must be mage/priest/warlock-- the number of each wasn't a requirement (though it might affect our efficiency).

2. Must look identical! (all three classes can only be played by Undead as the Horde). Gear differences as the game progresses are ok, but identical at the start.

3. Must have a little attitude. It's still not real clear what this means exactly, but we've had it in spades so far. I'm still pushing for being permanently flagged even though we're on a PvE server, but maybe I'll settle for us never ever letting a flagged Alliance character go unattacked, no matter the level.

4. Must have names that obviously link them together.

5. Party together as much as possible (and I mean party, not just group!)

Some things aren't yet set in stone -- I'd like to see us try to get along without the voidwalker, but he's there for when we need him.


So -- at long last the I.C.P. was born:

The Insane Cloth Posse!



The party consists of:


Cryptlurker -- Mage (bonemage)
Darklurker -- Priest (khgerg)
Demonlurker -- Warlock (VoiceMan)
Grimlurker -- Mage (vor_lord)
Holylurker -- Priest (Xame)




Our first reaction was, interestingly enough, from two female undead characters who were attempting to also be clones of one another. We explained what we were doing.



After a while of us dancing and posing together, they said "Ok, this is a little weird..." and left.

We set off to adventure in Tirisfal Glades.

[vor_lord]

We had great fun blowing through the early quests together. All ranged, all firepower, and none of it needed. We didn't do everything all together due to our schedules, but we've mostly been with at least one of our brothers.



An Alliance Attacker!
Our first PvP experience came when we were all about level 8. A paladin was killing Gordo just outside Brill (the poor guy!). Not having any real idea of his level, we went full attack mode. Cryptlurker opened by sheeping him, and we blasted away, only to see far too many resists and no dent in his HP.

The paladin proceeded to one hit kill us. Our duty done, we ran back to recover our corpses -- only to find that he was camping them! Camping level 8 characters.... no shame at all. Not about to be deterred, we rezzed, sheeped, and started running for the shelter of the guards in Brill.

In the process we learned he was at least level 40 as he mounted to pursue once he stopped baa-baaing from the first sheep. He began picking us off again, and while Grimlurker resheeped (while he was mounted), it was a losing battle.

Victory!
The town guards got involved, and so did a nearby level 59 shaman. The paladin was quickly dead, and each of us got to cannibalize his body. We camped his corpse, and the sight of five level 8 characters camping his corpse was too much and he rezzed at the spirit healer and got away. (Ok, so maybe he was worried about the lurking shaman, but hey, we acted tough).

I really regret we have no screenshots of this encounter. I can't begin to describe how much enjoyment successfully sheeping and cannibalizing (and taunting) a high level character was. I wish I had a screenshot of us cannibalizing him before he released -- the red tags showing clearly he is aware of the desecration of his body.

Next time!

After our adventure, we rested in the inn at Brill.

[Tuftears]

Woohoo! Should be a fun time. When the warlock gets a VW at level 10, you'll have your tank, I'm thinking. Two mages and two priests means you could MC one humanoid, then another, and finally sheep the remaining two humanoids of a former 5-humanoid pull... You won't face many tougher pulls than that for a long while.

[LochnarITB]

This sounds incredibly fun! I hope your schedules allow you to keep going until the point that mobs hit too hard and come too many at a time. I think that will be quite a while though. I look forward to your continuing tales of your progress.

[Icebird]

Sounds like a lot of fun. I've done half of Blackfathom Deeps in a 2 priest 3 warlock party. That was pretty fun. :)

Chris

[Doc]

Oh God, the Lounge has been invaded by Juggalos.

[bonemage]

Our current idea for our lack of a tank is to use kiting and aggro juggling where crowd control and high DPS on the focus fire target don't cut it. It's variant play for sure, but several of us are old D2 players, so variant play is mainstream for us...

[Drasca]

Been there.

I recommend your warlock get fully improved voidwalker talent early on, and possibly improved health funnel. Big Blue is a very serviceable tank. Too bad you didn't pick ORC warlock, as that's the cool race and only true race for locks, but more importantly that's about 5% less aggro from the pet using Undead (+5% melee damage from orc racial command). Note: There are videos of voidwalkers tanking MC giants, and I've personally had him tank various lower instance bosses up to Baron Riverdare in Stratholme and Scholomance's Rattlegore and Alexi Barov. Kool-aid demon can really soak it up from the nastiest of enemies.

Oh! If style is your objective, have your warlock play with improved firestone and a thrash blade. WAR-locks gotta be a swashbuckler. Admiral hats for all, when you can wear them.

[mjdoom]

If one of your priests is willing to pick up Improved Inner Fire you might be surprised at how much a priest can tank with another priest behind him. Shoot for lesser used talents like Improved Inner Fire and Martyrdom->Focused Casting and of course pick up Improved PW:S. With the "priesttank" shielding himself and pumping out Mind Blasts (Shadow/Disc) with Vampiric Embrace while in Shadowform I would be interested to see how much they could tank. I quickly put together a build taking into account your group:

Discipline Talents (18 points)

Unbreakable Will - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to resist Stun, Fear, and Silence effects by 15%.

Improved Power Word: Shield - 3/3 points
Reduces the duration of your Power Word: Shield's Weakened Soul effect by 15 seconds.

Martyrdom - 2/2 points
Gives you a 100% chance to gain the Focused Casting effect that lasts for 6 seconds after being the victim of a critical strike. The Focused Casting effect prevents you from losing casting time when taking damage.

Focused Casting - 1/1 point
While active, you no longer lose casting time from taking damage. Lasts 8 seconds.

Mental Agility - 4/5 points
Reduces the mana cost of your instant cast spells by 8%.

Improved Inner Fire - 3/3 points
Increases the effects of your Inner Fire spell by 45%.


Holy Talents (0 points)
None


Shadow Talents (33 points)

Blackout - 5/5 points
Gives your Shadow damage spells a 10% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.

Improved Shadow Word: Pain - 2/2 points
Increases the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain spell by 6 seconds.

Shadow Focus - 5/5 points
Reduces your target's chance to resist your Shadow spells by 10%.

Mind Flay - 1/1 point
Assault the target's mind with Shadow energy, causing 75 damage over 3 seconds and slowing the target to 50% of their movement speed.

Level 28: 126 damage over 3 seconds
Level 36: 186 damage over 3 seconds
Level 44: 261 damage over 3 seconds
Level 52: 330 damage over 3 seconds
Level 60: 426 damage over 3 seconds

Improved Mind Blast - 5/5 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Mind Blast spell by 2.5 seconds.

Improved Psychic Scream - 2/2 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Psychic Scream spell by 4 seconds.

Shadow Weaving - 5/5 points
Your Shadow damage spells have a 100% chance to cause your target to be vulnerable to Shadow damage. This vulnerability increases the Shadow damage dealt to your target by 3% and lasts 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.

Vampiric Embrace - 1/1 point
Afflicts your target with Shadow energy that causes all party members to be healed for 20% of any Shadow damage you deal for 1 minute.

Silence - 1/1 point
Silence the target, preventing them from casting spells for 5 seconds.

Darkness - 5/5 points
Increases your Shadow spell damage by 10%.

Shadowform - 1/1 point
Assume a Shadowform, increasing your Shadow damage by 15% and reducing Physical damage done to you by 15%. However, you may not cast Holy spells while in this form.

-----

Note that I did not include Improved PW:F because you have another priest that would likely have that talent. If not you could easily sacrifice some points from Mental Agility. With Shadow Weaving, Darkness, and Curse of Shadows this guy can probably pump out some serious damage when he is not tanking as well. I have avoided all threat reduction talents for the purposes of tanking but moving some points to fade or one of the two threat reducers could also help if this guy becomes artillery (as if you don't have enough already).

- mjdoom

Edit: Btw, if I remember numbers correctly (I haven't had improved inner fire for a while) a priest with IIF and in Shadowform will likely have damage reduction along the lines of either a high end mail wearer or a plate wearer with no shield. Don't have time to run the numbers right now...

[vor_lord]

If one of your priests is willing to pick up Improved Inner Fire you might be surprised at how much a priest can tank with another priest behind him.  Shoot for lesser used talents like Improved Inner Fire and Martyrdom->Focused Casting and of course pick up Improved PW:S.  With the "priesttank" shielding himself and pumping out Mind Blasts (Shadow/Disc) with Vampiric Embrace while in Shadowform I would be interested to see how much they could tank. 
[right][snapback]89559[/snapback][/right]

This spec actually nearly exactly matches one of the priest ideas we're kicking around. Real problem is to decide when to get these talents -- part of the fun is to have two priests with vamp embrace on while mind flaying, and getting shadowform is better than improved inner fire. To get both will be very late in life -- hopefully we're still going by then.

With my priest I have done some shadowform tanking. Without improved inner fire I get just over 35% damage mitigation. It was awkward when I tried it, but that was only because of the cooldown on mind blast and the need to deal with multiple targets.

With our group that shouldn't be as much of a worry (silly me, I hadn't thought of mind control for even more humanoid CC -- thanks for the tip, Tuftears!)

[vor_lord]

This sounds incredibly fun!  I hope your schedules allow you to keep going until the point that mobs hit too hard and come too many at a time.  I think that will be quite a while though.  I look forward to your continuing tales of your progress.
[right][snapback]89461[/snapback][/right]

I hope so too. Certainly the rate of updates will probably be slower than I'd like due to playing time.

[khgerg]

I am Darklurker in the ICP, one of the priests.

Thanks for putting together this talent spec. It is very similar to the one that I put together. In fact vor_lord and I were debating if one of the priest should have Improved Inner Fire.

The only real difference between your build and my build is that my build currently does not have Shadow Focus because I put some points in Spirit Tap, to make early soloing quicker, and some points in Shadow Reach. As my level increases, I will definitely look at respecing to remove the Spirit Tap points so that they can be put to better use.

[VoiceMan]

Been there.

I recommend your warlock get fully improved voidwalker talent early on, and possibly improved health funnel.  Big Blue is a very serviceable tank. Too bad you didn't pick ORC warlock, as that's the cool race and only true race for locks, but more importantly that's about 5% less aggro from the pet. Note: There are videos of voidwalkers tanking MC giants, and I've personally had him tank various lower instance bosses up to Baron Riverdare in Stratholme and Scholomance's Rattlegore and Alexi Barov. Kool-aid demon can really soak it up from the nastiest of enemies.

Oh! If style is your objective, have your warlock play with improved firestone and a thrash blade. WAR-locks gotta be a swashbuckler. Admiral hats for all, when you can wear them.
[right][snapback]89529[/snapback][/right]

Excellent Advice for my ICP warlock. Many thanks!

[Olon97]

part of the fun is to have two priests with vamp embrace on while mind flaying, and getting shadowform is better than improved inner fire.  To get both will be very late in life -- hopefully we're still going by then.

Vamp embrace is one per party - going to whichever priest applied it last. Or so I hear.

Aggro juggling/kiting should be a very exciting way to play, demanding a large amount of skill to defeat the mobs that typically 1 or 2 hit casters. Looking forward to the instance reports!

[vor_lord]

Vamp embrace is one per party - going to whichever priest applied it last. Or so I hear.

:( This is an unexpected blow. One of our priests was going to delay heavy shadow in order to get Improved Power Word: Shield and Improved Fortitude. Looks like this sacrifice will be easier to justify if we can't stack vamp embraces.

Aggro juggling/kiting should be a very exciting way to play, demanding a large amount of skill to defeat the mobs that typically 1 or 2 hit casters. Looking forward to the instance reports!

While I was gone this weekend most of the ICP has reached Ragefire Chasm level -- I need to catch up!

[kandrathe]

Our current idea for our lack of a tank is to use kiting and aggro juggling where crowd control and high DPS on the focus fire target don't cut it.  It's variant play for sure, but several of us are old D2 players, so variant play is mainstream for us...
[right][snapback]89505[/snapback][/right]

I have a shadow priestess and I must say that tanking and killing are not usually an issue against mobs up to lvl+2. I can self tank Elites up to my level, but much of this is dependant on any special attacks. Since I'm trying to be tank, healing and DPS when a mob/boss has a special attack something suffers. I have trouble against cleave or surger type attacks blowing away my shield, and since I'm usually in shadowform I cannot heal unless I leave which makes me more vulnerable.

For reference, my tanky Priest build is;

Shadow Talents - 33/33 points
# Blackout - rank 5/5
# Shadow Affinity - rank 5/5
# Improved Shadow Word: Pain - rank 2/2
# Improved Psychic Scream - rank 2/2
# Mind Flay - rank 1/1
# Improved Fade - rank 2/2
# Shadow Reach - rank 3/3
# Silence - rank 1/1
# Shadow Weaving - rank 5/5
# Vampiric Embrace - rank 1/1
# Darkness - rank 5/5
# Shadowform - rank 1/1

Discipline Talents - 8/18 points
# Unbreakable Will - rank 5/5
# Wand Specialization - rank 3(5)/5 <--
# Improved Power Word: Shield - rank 0(3)/3
# Improved Power Word: Fortitude - rank 2/2
# Improved Inner Fire - rank 0(3)/3

I had intended on respec'ing to something more healing focused once I get to the mostly party play mode. As an objective measure, at level 48 I'm killing level 50 Dune Maul Enforcers in about 6-10 seconds taking 0-10% dmg and using < 1/3 of my mana. My dmg meters are measuring 160-200 dps. I get alot of raised eyebrows from the Warriors/Warlocks/Mages/Hunters as my kill speed is often as fast or faster. For gear I've been balancing +stat gear with +spell power. I have just over 3500 mana, and with my PW:F I have about 2500 health, +35 healing/dmg.

My standard salvo against non-casters is Mind Blast(~350), SW:P (51/tick), Shield(605), Mind Flay(~120/tick ~300), Mind Flay(~120/tick ~300), Mind Blast(~350) -- Usually (~6 sec) now a normal mob is < 10% with some time left on SW:P so I wand them to death. I'm being conservative on the damage numbers because I'm not counting crits, and each shadow spell has a 10% chance to proc blackout, and a 100% chance to proc shadow weaving. Against casters I try to employ silence and mana burn if needed.

[castille]

We have something of the same thing going on Stormrage. My wife (Krossandra, holy spec) plays a Priestess, I play a Priest (Genkar, shadow spec), and Darian plays his Warlock (who knows what spec, possibly affliction). All cloth, and we've hit mid 30s in about .. 4 and a half days of 'played' time. We're booking along. It's so nice, except when we have to roll off. We're at the point where we're actually taking on other people to help. Sometimes Alrin shows up with his little priest, or Taha will come by with a rogue, or Nora with his rogue. . . but for the most part, it's the core group of cloth onlys that have gotten us this far ;)

[Quark]

:(

[Lissa]

:(
[right][snapback]89835[/snapback][/right]

It's cause you're not memorable... :whistling:

And as soon as the clothies get to RFD, Aileena is getting switched out for Lizzy so they have a real tank... ;)

[castille]

D'oh .. and, yeah, this druid? Like, twice? Yeah. Druid. ;)

Sorry, Quark, forgot about Chani. The main thing was that we were running the two priests and a warlock ;)