Avarice Raid Points

[Quark]

The Avarice Raid Points are being organized here.

Everyone, please check your points. If you see an discrepancies involving you, please list them here. I'm not infallible, and tried to make Darian pay for Anadrol's Gauntlets of Might :P

I don't want to see flame wars over points. However, the Raid Council is willing to discuss item value changes if there are logical explanations for a change.

[Mirajj]

Everyone, please check your points.  If you see an discrepancies involving you, please list them here.  I'm not infallible, and tried to make Darian pay for Anadrol's Gauntlets of Might :P
[right][snapback]91426[/snapback][/right]

Wow, and cool and all that good stuff. Glad it's all set. Time to raid again! *Cheer*

FYI, Raphtontis is an Avarice Member Hunter. ;) Just to fill in a few informational blanks.

And I just noticed that our raid council has no 'Locks, Mages or Hunters on it! Silent majority! =D

[Garrin]

f'in awesome...just..awesome. Great work. Can't wait to see this thing in action ^_^!

[oldmandennis]

just one thing

:blink:

people bid on core mats? Those go first to a specific armor smith, then to the tanks, then to a leatherworker, and the rogues, then to a tailor, and the heal-casting pack. I mean, I don't wanna tell you how to play, but really, there is no other logical way to do it.

Also, doesn't anyone have Finkles? Or is there a good reason firey cores are on the list and core leather isn't.

[Darian]

And I just noticed that our raid council has no 'Locks, Mages or Hunters on it! Silent majority! =D
[right][snapback]91428[/snapback][/right]

Sure it does. It's got Caerdwyn and Mitzy and Kristan. ;)

[Darian]

people bid on core mats?  Those go first to a specific armor smith, then to the tanks, then to a leatherworker, and the rogues, then to a tailor, and the heal-casting pack.  I mean, I don't wanna tell you how to play, but really, there is no other logical way to do it.[right][snapback]91433[/snapback][/right]

They don't bid on them, but we are charging for them since they result in gear. It's not as bad as it seems; the cost of a Dark Iron Helm is about 1/6 the cost of a Tier 1 helm.

Also, doesn't anyone have Finkles?  Or is there a good reason firey cores are on the list and core leather isn't.

Core leather wasn't tracked, and in fact after the first handful of raids, when I had trouble getting people to stick around for trash loot distribution, we just didn't even bother with it; the skinner just got to keep it. We're going to have to re-address the core leather issue, but that's your explanation for the current situation.

[Sabra]

Thank you so much for all you have done here. I look forward to seeing our Avarice raids go forward.

[Kevin]

And I just noticed that our raid council has no 'Locks, Mages or Hunters on it! Silent majority! =D
[right][snapback]91428[/snapback][/right]

Yeah I don't have a 56, 30, and 22 hunter. I also don't have a 29 and 19 mage. I certainly don't have a 30 warlock either. :) :P

[TheDragoon]

In looking at the way things are set up right now, it seems that no point values were changed from what the BRP currently uses. Did this ever get discussed? It has always seemed to me that the point values were assigned rather arbitrarily and, in some cases, the point values do not reflect changes to the game.

As a quick example, let's look at the weapons. Overall, many weapon point values were set to be very, very high. In the past, this made some sense since a weapon is very important to most classes and high-end weapons were not easily available. However, with the release of Zul Gurub, there are now other weapons that are as good or better than the Molten Core weapons. The Molten Core/Onyxia no longer have a death grip on epic, end-game weaponry.

I'm sure I will have some more to say on this front since a point system will live and die by its point values and I want to make sure that we aren't blindly accepting arbitrary point values without looking closely at them.

[Kevin]

In looking at the way things are set up right now, it seems that no point values were changed from what the BRP currently uses.  Did this ever get discussed?  It has always seemed to me that the point values were assigned rather arbitrarily and, in some cases, the point values do not reflect changes to the game. 

As a quick example, let's look at the weapons.  Overall, many weapon point values were set to be very, very high.  In the past, this made some sense since a weapon is very important to most classes and high-end weapons were not easily available.  However, with the release of Zul Gurub, there are now other weapons that are as good or better than the Molten Core weapons.  The Molten Core/Onyxia no longer have a death grip on epic, end-game weaponry. 

I'm sure I will have some more to say on this front since a point system will live and die by its point values and I want to make sure that we aren't blindly accepting arbitrary point values without looking closely at them.
[right][snapback]91445[/snapback][/right]

Yes they have been discussed. No they have not been changed yet. Yes we are very open to change on values.

Something more along the lines of using the itemization formulas (though weapons aren't in that yet) and a rarity factor from drop info on thott and alla (not sure how trustworthy either of those are) has been brought up.

We posted about it now to get feedback on things like this. It was no simple task to try and get them put in retroactively and the entire raid council does have a lot of other things to do as well.

[Quark]

Direct comparisons and such would go a long way towards arguments for change :)

[Zippyy]

The Avarice Raid Points are being organized here.

Everyone, please check your points.  If you see an discrepancies involving you, please list them here.  I'm not infallible, and tried to make Darian pay for Anadrol's Gauntlets of Might :P

I don't want to see flame wars over points.  However, the Raid Council is willing to discuss item value changes if there are logical explanations for a change.
[right][snapback]91426[/snapback][/right]

This is fantastic quark, thanks for all the work you and the leadership have put into this.

I do have a question but I'll PM you about it. Fantastic job Quark et al!

[Quark]

Small detail to help edge confusion. To help save time, singular "raids" were put in instead of splitting it up per boss kill + trash drops. In the future it will be done strictly by boss kill, but that would have taken probably 2-3 times as long to put in.

[Lissa]

Yes they have been discussed.  No they have not been changed yet.  Yes we are very open to change on values.

Something more along the lines of using the itemization formulas (though weapons aren't in that yet) and a rarity factor from drop info on thott and alla (not sure how trustworthy either of those are) has been brought up. 

We posted about it now to get feedback on things like this.  It was no simple task to try and get them put in retroactively and the entire raid council does have a lot of other things to do as well.
[right][snapback]91448[/snapback][/right]

One thing I don't understand is how the points were originally brought up by the basin. Was this done during the days when Tier 1 and 2 dropped in MC? Also, why are the set items so expensive when the non-set items, which tend to be more powerful and useful, are much cheaper? Shouldn't the set items be cheaper than the non-set items since each boss is guarenteed to drop atleast one, usually two while the non-set items are seen far more rarely?

[kandrathe]

The Avarice Raid Points are being organized here.

Everyone, please check your points.  If you see an discrepancies involving you, please list them here.  I'm not infallible, and tried to make Darian pay for Anadrol's Gauntlets of Might :P

I don't want to see flame wars over points.  However, the Raid Council is willing to discuss item value changes if there are logical explanations for a change.
[right][snapback]91426[/snapback][/right]

Very nice! Good work and thank you to everyone involved. I have a question now. :)

Ok, so we have an idea of where everyone stands in the rankings. Would you describe what happens after we kill Onyxia tomorrow? Say something "Warrior" drops and our usual warriors appear (who are mostly negative), or how do you determine who gets the head now?

[LochnarITB]

Oops, I went there first so my response is there.

[Mirajj]

Question...Why is every single weapon there either 100 or 100+ points (usually in the 125-175 range) yet Shadowstrike is only 25 points?

[Skandranon]

Question...Why is every single weapon there either 100 or 100+ points (usually in the 125-175 range) yet Shadowstrike is only 25 points?
[right][snapback]91484[/snapback][/right]

This is probably because Shadowstrike aka Vendorstrike aka Shardstrike is a terrible, terrible item.

It's too fast - though the upcoming patch will change the attack power part, the damage range is still very small. It's a polearm, so hunters, paladins and warriors only - and with no statistic bonuses, hunters derive very little benefit. It has a worse proc than most blue weapons (Doomsaw anyone?).

Furthermore, it only has 59.4 DPS. Most blues outside MC, like Barbarous and Ice Barbed Spear, float in the 52-53 range and include statistical bonuses that boost the effective DPS higher.

For warriors, Arcanite Reaper is a straight upgrade. So too for paladins. Hunters are better off with Peacemaker or Barbarous. When all the classes that can use it strictly upgrade to things that don't require going into MC, the relative lack of value of Shadowstrike is revealed.

Finally - Shadowstrike is the only item in Molten Core with a level requirement lower than level 60. It requires level 58 - which only reinforces the idea that it's a misplaced blue with purple lettering.

[anadrol]

The Avarice Raid Points are being organized here.

Everyone, please check your points.  If you see an discrepancies involving you, please list them here.  I'm not infallible, and tried to make Darian pay for Anadrol's Gauntlets of Might :P

I don't want to see flame wars over points.  However, the Raid Council is willing to discuss item value changes if there are logical explanations for a change.
[right][snapback]91426[/snapback][/right]

Only mistake in there is that I have only missed one Thursday raid that we didn't even attempt anything on as far as I can remember. I should have perfect attendance going back like as long as we've been raiding.

P.S. flame on the deathbringer ;P

Thank you guys for working so hard on the points, the time that you put in shows and I think it will be good.

[kandrathe]

P.S. flame on the deathbringer ;P
[right][snapback]91542[/snapback][/right]

I would think many warriors would give up excess body organs for such a sweet 1h, no stats but still awesome DPS. :D There are perhaps a handful of better epic 1h warrior weapons in the game (Crul'shorukh-Edge of Chaos, Ebon Hand (maybe, is crafted), Chromatically Tempered Sword, Spineshatter, and Quel'Serrar).