Terenas Friday 10/14

[Concillian]

Durambar traded in his muscles so no more mortal strike  :(

I think my preference is to swap Octord out once you guys are done with the first part.  We've got the shaman with self rez, and two warriors in the Hakkar encounter I think will come in handy.  Might be short on DPS with an underleveled shaman and two warriors... but my healing capacity is pretty dang high especially with all the aggro control we would have.
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DPS is good in Hakkar, When I did it with the priest, I had lots of DPS, and there were a couple times where we were able to kill things fast enough to get out of combat and I could drink for a while.

I think we can do it either way, but there are two approaches to the encounter, DPS so you can take drink breaks or slow and steady with careful mana conservation. There is a part of BRD that is very similar.

So it probably doesn't matter which one stays and which one goes, just the approach to the encounter changes depending on whether it's Durambar (slow, mana conservation approach) or Octord (high DPS approach, priest adds offense)

[khgerg]

Also, I'm getting close to the point where some useful items can be made like mithril shield spikes and mithril spurs, is there any interest in that kind of thing?  I have the plans for spurs, but not spikes, I think I'm high enough to do spikes, I just don't have the plan.
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Octord would not mind having some spurs.

[bonemage]

So it probably doesn't matter which one stays and which one goes, just the approach to the encounter changes depending on whether it's Durambar (slow, mana conservation approach) or Octord (high DPS approach, priest adds offense)
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I'm a warrior oddity with my current build. I've been all over the charts, having gone deep into all 3 trees, and my current build is a hybrid layout of my own creation. 23/5/23. I get cruelty out of Fury, and am getting both 21 point skills from prot and arms. It's a tanking/green mob grinding build that has what I love best out of the prot trees, but I still have impale and Sweeping Strikes from the Arms tree. My single target damage is utter crap, but I can kill two mobs nearly as fast as one. I lack a good rage dump in defensive stance, but most of my rage is spent on sunders and the like, and in fights with few targets to lock down, anger management lets me take most of that into the next fight where I can use it to quickly lock down the mobs in that fight for faster DPS application.

On a more related note, the presence of Xame's mage should help with AoE which is very nice in that encounter. We had little of that last week, and at times I was dragging around 4-6 non-elites while trying to chase down some elites. It got very hairy at the end. We'll want to discuss tactics prior to starting the encounter, as there was considerable confusion over who particular orders were for.

[Concillian]

Octord would not mind having some spurs.
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You only mine for money right?

If you could save your mithril for me, it would help get my skill up, and help accomodate those who want spurs. Spurs are only 4 bars each + some solid stone that I have tons of (and I suspect others do too as it drops from elementals as well as coming from veins)

Other skillup items are 6-12 mithril each, so I suspect vor_lord is right in saying that they are a cheap skillup item.

[Kevin]

Not pertaining to Friday but I think this is as good a place as any for this kind of discussion.

Conc needs to choose between weaponsmith and armorsmith.  Before Swirly left for Lightbringer, the choice was easy, because he was going to be armorsmith.
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Even without thinking about Molten Core the Enchanted Thorium stuff is some of the best tanking gear in the game. Gnolack's main helms until last night when he won the helm of might were an Enchanted Thorium Helm and a Dark Iron Helm. The Helm of Might is clearly superior to the Enchanted Thorium but I still use the Dark Iron Helm for some of the MC encounters and even to make some things easier in BRD when I'm helping people with quests there. And I've been tanking in Molten Core and Onyxia 2 or 3 nights a week for about 2 months now with him.

I've also made several other enchanted thorium pieces for those who could afford them (the legs are quite good as well though the chest is not too hard to get a better drop).

Wildthron mail actually looks nice for shaman (no use at all alliance side), and the truesilver gauntlets and breastplate are both quite nice for younger warriors. Storm Gauntlets look to have value for shaman as well though I'm guessing those plans aren't as cheap horde side as they are alliance side, same for wildthorn.

Since you are the only high end smith in the guild armorsmith seems to be the way to go. There is more value out of armorsmith than weaponsmith for PvE as the reaper isn't that good anymore (a barbarous blade that isn't that hard to get as I seem to see one every 2 or 3 tribute runs is arguably going to do more measured DPS than a reaper, though you give up some HP while doing it, with the new mechanics).

I've advertised making the enchanted thorium stuff on Stormrage a few times for mats plus a small fee and when I'm able to deal with it I've had a few takers and made a few gold doing it. I don't charge anyone in the avarice alliance for making the stuff as long as they provide mats.

[Kevin]

You only mine for money right?

If you could save your mithril for me, it would help get my skill up, and help accomodate those who want spurs.  Spurs are only 4 bars each + some solid stone that I have tons of (and I suspect others do too as it drops from elementals as well as coming from veins)

Other skillup items are 6-12 mithril each, so I suspect vor_lord is right in saying that they are a cheap skillup item.
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Spurs are a good skill-up item. Gnolack got the plans late (they were already yellow) but I went quite a ways with them. Of course a few hours in the Charred Vale will yeild so much mithril that skilling up with anything isn't too bad.

[Concillian]

Since you are the only high end smith in the guild armorsmith seems to be the way to go.  There is more value out of armorsmith than weaponsmith for PvE as the reaper isn't that good anymore (a barbarous blade that isn't that hard to get as I seem to see one every 2 or 3 tribute runs is arguably going to do more measured DPS than a reaper, though you give up some HP while doing it, with the new mechanics).
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That is what I was thinking, but I soon realize I am the only elemental leatherworker and the only blacksmith, the thought of all that thorium brotherhood rep farming is not tremendously appealing. At least for the dark iron ore, I should have some help from the 2 gather guildies.

[bonemage]

I think that armorsmithing is a more useful path to take for the guild. The Zul'Gurub stuff looks pretty good, though I don't think it requires armorsmithing to make.

Spurs and a spike would be nice too. Be sure to update the Terenas professions thread with where you are at for future reference. In fact, I'll take my own advice and update my portion now...

[Concillian]

Spurs are a good skill-up item.  Gnolack got the plans late (they were already yellow) but I went quite a ways with them.  Of course a few hours in the Charred Vale will yeild so much mithril that skilling up with anything isn't too bad.
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My primary source of mithril was leaving one of my miner toons logged out inside the cave with lesser bloodstone ore just outside Hammerfall and log in with them from time to time. Low level easy mobs and there are at least two mithril veins in there, and most of the questers are too low skill for mithril.

So, charred vale is better? I'll have to leave my shaman logged out over there, I don't think he can do mithril yet, I think he's just shy of gold, but I saved a bunch of gold ore to kick him up a few notches when he gets to gold.

Conc barely skills up on Mithril right now, I think he's ~265 mining, somewhere within 15 points of being able to mine RTVs.

[bonemage]

That is what I was thinking, but I soon realize I am the only elemental leatherworker and the only blacksmith, the thought of all that thorium brotherhood rep farming is not tremendously appealing.  At least for the dark iron ore, I should have some help from the 2 gather guildies.
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How can I help? I can donate Kingsblood to your cause, right? I can help with that as an herbalist. Also, VoiceMan is willing to help with the mining he does, he's gatherer professions only. It's Dark Iron you need from miners, right?

[Xame]

With both yuri and octord, the aggro pulling kings, we should be fine on DPS plus Durambar can flex his mortal strike muscles =)
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Heh! I'm just so happy to be breaking out as a dps mage. I promise to play nice in the instance. I just have been wanting to see what my new rank ups will do for me (+5% to crit fire and new fireball and fireblast spells). I've been behind the warlock (octord) for so long that its nice to start getting on top.

My build is a fire/arcane crit build:

I'm currently at 14% to crit on the fireball, 18% to crit scorch and 28% to crit on flame strike (opening aoe spell before AE). With Octord giving me curse of elements, I was having so much fun going for the 1k crits + 400 fire dot. I know your pain as a warrior having your dps classes going nuts behind you but the smile on my face (and Octord's too), was worth a little pain so we don't do it in an instance :D .

I'm feeling better now and should be more under control in the instance.

Thanks for putting up with me....

FYI:
5% base to crit
~2% for int
6% Critial mass (fire only talent) (This is what is making me so happy!!!)
1% sword (spell crit equip effect)
15% improved flamestrike
4% Incenerate (to scorch and fireblast)
and
Ignite (on crit, apply a 40% spell damage dot for 4 secs. ie. on a 1k crit -> 200/tick)
Impact (10% chance for 2sec stun on fire spells)
Improved Scorch ( +2% to fire damage, stacks 5 times, appears to stack with
the warlock's curse of elements but not positive for some really super crits!!)
and
I'm wearing some +dmg to fire equipment (I have +int and +dmg sets of equip)

(nothing new and cool until lvl 59 and 60 for 2% more to crit w/ arcane instablity)

I am the glass cannon, Light 'em up!!
(and in an instance....do it a bit slower)

[Concillian]

How can I help?  I can donate Kingsblood to your cause, right?  I can help with that as an herbalist.  Also, VoiceMan is willing to help with the mining he does, he's gatherer professions only.  It's Dark Iron you need from miners, right?
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for the first quest, it's incendasaur scales + 4 kingsblood OR 4 iron ore OR 10 heavy leather+ coal, which can be bought from the dude you need to turn in the quests to. Need around 100 turn ins. To get friendly, depending on how many of the 7 quests offered at Thorium point were done and at what level you did them at.

Then it's residue (I think this is the easiest level, as you get quite a bit off kills in BRD, it takes about 500 residue or so, and Concillian has been there once and already has 60 something)

Then it's Dark Iron Ore (this one sucks)
Friendly --> Honored requires 120 turn ins x 10 ore = 1200 ore
Honored --> Revered requires 240 turn ins x 10 ore = 2400 ore

There are also blacksmithing quests that require a total of 270 thorium bars for plans to the imperial plate set that give rep for turning in. These are best left for the Dark Iron Ore rep level, because Dark Iron Ore sells for tons on the AH.

Most of the useful stuff comes at friendly and honored so not so much dark iron is needed.
Some of the good weapon enchants are here too, +30 SPI and +15 STR come at Honored and +22 INT comes at revered. The other good weapon enchant (+15 DEX) comes from Furlbogs at Honored. Spell power is an MC boss drop.

[Concillian]

Thanks for putting up with me....

The comment was made more in jest than anything else, no worries.

[Xame]

That is what I was thinking, but I soon realize I am the only elemental leatherworker and the only blacksmith, the thought of all that thorium brotherhood rep farming is not tremendously appealing.  At least for the dark iron ore, I should have some help from the 2 gather guildies.
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Let me know what you need. Yuri (mage) is a pretty good farmer for resources, (300 for herb/skinning). I've been blowing up 40's for silk to help Xames tailoring. Can do the same for you if you have needs (eg. I'm willing to farm lower level stuff for my alts or higher level stuff for exp to level).

[vor_lord]

DPS is good in Hakkar, When I did it with the priest, I had lots of DPS, and there were a couple times where we were able to kill things fast enough to get out of combat and I could drink for a while. 

I think we can do it either way, but there are two approaches to the encounter, DPS so you can take drink breaks or slow and steady with careful mana conservation.  There is a part of BRD that is very similar.

So it probably doesn't matter which one stays and which one goes, just the approach to the encounter changes depending on whether it's Durambar (slow, mana conservation approach) or Octord (high DPS approach, priest adds offense)
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Hmmm...

Well having done ST twice now (and the first time was back in February? with a badly overleveled party), I'm interested to know there is a DPS option. Last week we had a bad buildup of nonelites really causing me a lot of trouble.

Tonight you design the battle plan and hopefully things go smoother.

[Concillian]

Hmmm...

Well having done ST twice now (and the first time was back in February? with a badly overleveled party), I'm interested to know there is a DPS option.  Last week we had a bad buildup of nonelites really causing me a lot of trouble.

Tonight you design the battle plan and hopefully things go smoother.
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It depends on the party makeup. You have to out DPS the add rate to go the DPS route. If we have Octord and Yuri we can try to do this with AoE, but with Durambar, I don't think we will have enough DPS to go that route. When I did it with my priest we had warrior (60 who only knew how to DPS, didn't know how to tank), 2 shammies a rogue and my priest. There was plenty of DPS around to keep up with the add rate, and the group was disorganized, and everyone was melee, so I had little problem with aggro. Few flashes were used there, mostly PoH beause everyone was soloing.

With Durambar we can try the other way to get the priest out of combat. That is to have you top off everyone with PoH, then run to a corner. Shammy shocks adds ASAP, and we split them between Durambar, me and Kosch to spread damage tanken and give you time while we finish the old ones (pots used here). Eventually you are not on the aggro table of any mobs and you can drink. I've never tried that one in Hakkar, but it works in Divino. I don't know if you can get far enough away in that little room to gaurantee not getting on the hate list of any adds.

[Treesh]

I've never tried that one in Hakkar, but it works in Divino.  I don't know if you can get far enough away in that little room to gaurantee not getting on the hate list of any adds.
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That's what I've done with Aleri. For at least one of the Hakkar fights we had two mages so it wasn't too bad keeping up with the spawn rate. But there was at least one run where we didn't have two mages and was still able to keep up with the spawn rate well enough for Aleri to sit and drink. I didn't even have to run to a corner to do it. The second I was out of combat, I was drinking. When we had a hunter with us, there was a trap placed by me while drinking so even if they headed toward me, that gave the hunter (and the others) enough warning to get aggro on the critters before they hit me.

[Kevin]

You actually get to friendly doing the scales + whatever + coal. Then it is 960 Dark Iron residue to get to honored. I have not progressed past honored on Stormrage yet with Gnolack as we still haven't outfitted everyone with all the stuff that people can do at honored.

The residue is very simple. You should get enough just getting all the quests done in BRD (though I don't know the horde quest lines in there).

DI ore will be the pain. It's actually not too horrible to get outside of BRD and MC right now but it takes a lot. Dark Iron Bracers will be nice to have though.

As for the elemental leatherworker part, Marn is dragonscale, we'll have to look and see what elemental specific stuff there is. I seem to recall that the stuff that takes TB rep can be done by any type of leatherworker. I know the Lava Belt (which even warriors may want for Rag despite it being leather) can be done by any leatherworker so you may not need to rep up two people.

[Concillian]

The residue is very simple.  You should get enough just getting all the quests done in BRD (though I don't know the horde quest lines in there). 

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Yeah, there is one quest line that sends you into BRD 3 times. This part is pretty easy, it just happens.

The reward for that line is a necklace with 10 STR / 11 stam / 4 AGI and 5 SPI. Not a bad necklace for melee types, so we shouldn't have a problem getting the residue, as at least the warriors, and probably rogues and shammies, will want this necklace.

As I recall, there are leatherwork patterns for all three types of leatherworkers. As for how useful they are, well that's a seperate question entirely.

Vendor:
http://www.thottbot.com/?n=19452

Yeah, there are two tribal, two dragonscale and two elemental patterns from the vendor. We can discuss prioritization of who to get up first, but I think it's pretty much a given that blacksmith is the most important. After that we can talk about leatherworkers. It will take a while just to get Conc up though with 100 or so turn ins of the incendesaur scales + ore/kingsblood/h. leather + coal quest, so we have plenty of time to think about that.