IFFHDS downs Vael

[Hedon]

Finally! This was a really tough one for us, with tries that took half an hour to get the right buffs (disbanding the raid into smaller groups, these groups entering BRS with a priest mindcontrolling a spellbinder there to apply this juicy fire resistance buff to all group members, then reforming the raid and reentering BWL), just to watch our merry raid to get nuked by Vaelastrasz literally in seconds due to some very minor slip up in aggro management, was frustrating to say the least. This is a very high charged and unforgiving encounter.
Special kudos are due to our tanks, for mastering the art of immediate aggro transfer :)

As to our race for the first BWL clear on Kil'Jaeden (EU): alliance guild <Anorhin> had a lucky break and downed Firemaw at their very first try, but the race to Nef is still open.

[redinter]

Congratulations :)

Quite an accomplishment.

[Tal]

Congrats!

[Arethor]

Congrats!! Vael is a difficult fight, even when you know what to do.

Also as a side note. You don't have to disband to smaller groups to get the UBRS Fire buff. You just have to make sure that you only send small groups in at a time. Usually sending in people by class works best. Ex: Mages zone in, get the buff, zone out and then Shamans zone in, etc.

[Treesh]

Congrats. :)

[Mirajj]

I'd like to add my congrats and a caution, as well.

MC'ing the Spellbinders and using their Fire Resistance has been called an exploit by at least 1 GM. You might want to be very, very careful using this tactic.

http://pacifistguild.org/ragnaros/gm_4.jpg

[Skandranon]

Congrats. Vael's a challenging encounter, and, from what I hear, much worse for the Horde than for Alliance.

[Skandranon]

I'd like to add my congrats and a caution, as well.

MC'ing the Spellbinders and using their Fire Resistance has been called an exploit by at least 1 GM. You might want to be very, very careful using this tactic.

http://pacifistguild.org/ragnaros/gm_4.jpg
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No, you don't.

Caydiem and Tigole have both posted on the Raids and Dungeons forum that the GM in that case was misguided. The question was asked and answered again at BlizzCon. This is a legit tactic (and one that Avarice should keep in mind for Ragnaros!).

[Mirajj]

No, you don't.

Caydiem and Tigole have both posted on the Raids and Dungeons forum that the GM in that case was misguided.&nbsp; The question was asked and answered again at BlizzCon.&nbsp; This is a legit tactic (and one that Avarice should keep in mind for Ragnaros!).
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Hm, good to know, then.

And yet...I could still see it as an exploit. I mean, if the Spellbinders were in the same instance, I'd easily say no exploit, but it seems to me that fetching a mob out of another instance (that just happens to be close by) for a buff seems kinda...wrong?

Might just be me.

[Hedon]

We also asked a GM on our server in advance to using the buff. He confirmed that it is legit.

[Icebird]

Mind controlling the Spellbinders is considered "creative use of game mechanics" rather than an exploit. If it was an exploit, Blizzard could fix it easily I imagine - I can't see any reason that the mobs would *need* a 1 hour fire resist buff that could be cast on other people.

Chris

[Skandranon]

Mind controlling the Spellbinders is considered "creative use of game mechanics" rather than an exploit. If it was an exploit, Blizzard could fix it easily I imagine - I can't see any reason that the mobs would *need* a 1 hour fire resist buff that could be cast on other people.
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Exactly. It isn't as if there's some enormous source of fire damage in LBRS that you can get to from the Spellbinders in an hour that the buff is really all that helpful for.

[martini]

Hm, good to know, then.

And yet...I could still see it as an exploit. I mean, if the Spellbinders were in the same instance, I'd easily say no exploit, but it seems to me that fetching a mob out of another instance (that just happens to be close by) for a buff seems kinda...wrong?

Might just be me.
[right][snapback]94393[/snapback][/right]

Indeed. It seems pretty cheap to me.

But on-topic, grats on the kill! It's got to feel good to struggle for a while against something, then come out on top. Well done! :)

[Kevin]

Indeed. It seems pretty cheap to me.

But on-topic, grats on the kill! It's got to feel good to struggle for a while against something, then come out on top. Well done! :)
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It is clever and it's also a bit cheap in my book, but I tell you if we get close to killing rag but we feel we just don't have enough FR to do it. I'd not say no to getting the buff just so we can take him down and know that with a bit more gear it should be doale everytime.

[MongoJerry]

Congratulations! Regarding the use of spellbinders, you have to take into account the much longer time investment it takes to buff an enitre raid party this way. As you said, it took you 30 minutes to prepare your party each time whereas if you hadn't, you could've easily made three attempts in that same amout of time. The only raid members who need a very high resistance to fire are the main tanks. In our case, our goal is to try to equip all of our non-MT players with 151 fire resistance after MOTW and no more than that. We haven't reached that point yet, but that's the goal. Have less than that, then your raid is takng extra damage, stressing the healers. Have more than that, and you'll have to sacrifice too much offensive power.

The thing is, though, is that even this is largely overkill. I've healed groups with people with only 76 fire resistances after MOTW and my Prayer of Healing spams were more than enough to keep them healed from Vael's aoe fire attack. The real issue with Vael is not the fire attack but as you mentioned, understanding aggro control and handling tank transitions. By taking the time to use spellbinders, you reduce the number of attempts your raid can make during the course of an evening and therefore you reduce the number of attempts you have to learn about aggro control and tank transition control. So basically, the use of spellbinders hampers your efforts more than it helps.

My advice is that you make every effort to equip a set of main tanks with good fire resist gear (some coming from Thorium Brotherhood craftables and others from Molten Core drops) and then abandon the use of spellbinders altogether. Or, if you really can't readily equip a set of main tanks with 316+ fire resist gear (after the use of fire resist totems), then have them and only them use the spellbinders to boost their fire resistance.

[MongoJerry]

Caydiem just reiterated that mind controling the spellbinders in LBRS and getting the fire resistance buff is not an exploit.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...mp=1#post269758