Login

Rudra · 08-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Hi,

today I found something out that left me quite baffled. I don't know if it is already known, but I've never come across a topic about it. I think most of you know the leak in Lazarus' chamber.

What if EVERY SINGLE WALL TILE with this SW-NE orientation in Diablo has a leak?

Have a look at these screenshots:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8841/leak1.jpg
You can hit more than just Blackjade from outside the chamber. It is even possible to kill Lazarus himself from behind the wall, if you have already activated him. Or try this in the large rooms in the catacombs.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6813/leak2.jpg
1. Open the door and close it again. The Butcher walks towards the door and stays there. 2. Shoot a Fireball - it will hit the door / the Butcher and kill him. What a cool Butcher tactic, isn't it? It doesn't work always, because it depends on whether the Butcher stays on the exact tile.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/667/leak3.jpg
If you are too afraid to open a door in order to check what's there, simply shoot through the closed door!

How's it done?
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3081/leak4.jpg
Target at the tile located in the 4th row behind the wall and 2 tiles aside. :)

danifilth · 08-18-2009, 08:39 PM

Great Job Rudra ;-)
Btw does this only work with spells?

Rudra · 08-18-2009, 09:21 PM

Hi!
It seems that it works only with Fireball and nothing else. Btw you can kill the Butcher by the same method without activating him. It always works. B)

KingOfPain · 08-19-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:today I found something out that left me quite baffled. I don't know if it is already known, but I've never come across a topic about it. I think most of you know the leak in Lazarus' chamber.

Hehe, it took me a few paragraphs before I realized I wrote that thing:PIf you are interested in more of it, check these out:
What started me on this investigation
And then start with Part 1 of the article you linked to (which is part 3 of The D Filez).

KoP

KingOfPain · (This post was last modified: 08-19-2009, 08:14 AM by KingOfPain.)

And maybe A Study Of Campfire for more oddities

KoP

Rudra · 08-19-2009, 06:13 PM

Thanks for the links, btw I have to add something. If it doesn't work when you try it, it's because you need at least slvl 17! Otherwise it doesn't work. Found that out minutes ago.

Galbraith · (This post was last modified: 08-20-2009, 09:19 PM by Galbraith.)

Maybe it is related with speed of fb. Jarulf say that speed for fb is:

Speed: 16 + 2Â·slvl (max 50)

So for every slvl speed will be like in table:

Code:
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Nova

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Flame Wave

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Elemental

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Holy Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp; Bone Spirit&nbsp;&nbsp;Lightning

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fireball Firebolt&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Blood Star&nbsp;&nbsp; Chain Lightning Charged bolt

slvl speed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;speed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; speed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;speed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; speed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;18&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;22&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 22&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;24&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 24&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;26&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 26&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

6&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;28&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 28&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;30&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 30&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;34&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 34&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

10&nbsp;&nbsp; 36&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 36&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

11&nbsp;&nbsp; 38&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 38&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

12&nbsp;&nbsp; 40&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 40&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

13&nbsp;&nbsp; 42&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 42&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

14&nbsp;&nbsp; 44&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 44&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

15&nbsp;&nbsp; 46&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 46&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

16&nbsp;&nbsp; 48&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8 

17&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

18&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 52&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

19&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 54&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

20&nbsp;&nbsp; 50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 56&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 32&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8

Is it work in the same way for 18, 19 and 20 slvl?
Why is it not working with 17slvl Holy Bolt and Firebolt?
Someone know?

Also Jarulf say that:
Locations a missile travel per second: 25Â·speed/45.3

For speed 50 in straight line it is ~1,38 tile per frame (20 frames per second)

For non straight directions Diablo is using true trigonometry and as Jarulf said "For the purpose of keeping track of missiles, the game actually uses 22 extra bits of precision for its location, think of it as each location actually being divided in roughly 92 680 times 92 680 smaller locations. "

It shall give some less than 1 tile per frame speed shooting in "5 tiles straight and 2 left" direction for first tile near caster (wall). (Please calculate it if you want. You can draw line from caster tile to target tile on some squares on paper and see that part of that line going through first tile shall be shorter than length of side for that square (tile)).

Also note that caster is staying near wall. How it will work when we put a monster instead of wall? Will it be hit or not?

I have no idea am I right or not. I still have not enough data how spells "really" move and check to hit (wall or other objects) to analyze problem. Please discuss that here.

Rudra · (This post was last modified: 08-21-2009, 04:14 PM by Rudra.)

Hi, that's interesting.
I made a few more tests and found out:

a ) it does travel through walls, doors, monsters, pillars, corpses etc.
b ) it works with Holy Bolt and Firebolt as well, but only on slvl 17. As one can extract from your table, this most likely means that you need a travel speed of exactly 50. It would be interesting to find out if that works with arrows, too, but you would need clvl 73 to reach a speed of 50, and I don't know how to do that at the moment.

<span style="color:#FF0000">News!
Thanks to Shade I could do the tests with the bow. The speed formulas (for the Rogue) according to Jarulf are:
32 + (clvl-1)/4 (normal bow)
16 + Rnd[32] + (clvl-1)/4 (random speed arrows)

As you can see, you can only reach 50 with a normal bow if you have clvl 73: 32 + (73-1)/4 = 50. Since there wasn't an opportunity at first to hack the clvl above 50, I modded a Rift Bow into the game, because it shoots random speed arrows.
With clvl 50 and the Rift Bow, I could achieve random values between 28,25 and 59,25. Then, it was possible to shoot through walls! It worked with clvl 69 and 112 too, and so on. The problem now was to determine the exact value needed for penetrating the wall (or any other obstacle).
I recoded some hacks I got from xyz and could then set my clvl to 73. Then I tried the normal bow and each shot penetrated the wall, as expected. Further tests with other clvls brought to light that you need a clvl between 69 and 76. It does not work with 68 or 77.

Now it is easy to calculate the exact speed needed. It has to be between 32 + (69-1)/4 and 32 + (76-1)/4, that is between 49 and 50,75. Each missile which travels with a speed between 49 and 50,75 can penetrate each one-tile-obstacle!

weakwarrior · 08-21-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:...

Good sleuth work!

maht1 · 08-22-2009, 12:14 PM

This certainly explains those pointblank fireball misses my arty mage experienced against blood knights. Prior to losing my gear, I was using lvl17 spells. I have this tendency to play my arty mage rather sloppy, so a group of blood knights would usually close in before one more fireball finished them off. I clearly remember aiming at those spots when frantically spamming, no comprehending why i was missing with my very high magic stat. It reminded me of that bug where certain bow firing angles resulted in complete misses at a stationary monster, regardless of % cth.

So without cheating, the only arrows capable of leaking through are from the rift bow. Even at that, I don't imagine seeing that the 49 - 50.75 speed very often due to the random[32]. Not very reliable for wall piercing, but since you can find it very early (I found mine on normal lvl 1, the only one i ever found) I suppose it may be useful in IM to attempt wall piercing.

As for the lvl 17 spells that allow leak through, I do not see much practical use for it. By the time one attains such firepower, you would also have a massive mana pool for manashield. The only monsters I'd like to kill via this method would be the goat archers, but even then i prefer chain lightning since none have resistance to that.

Still, this is a very good analysis of the phenomenon, certainly more useful than the firecross bug i mentioned some time ago.
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry166204

This is off topic, but I'll be doing some testing concerning the buggy fire and lightning arrow damage done in pvp. I wish to confirm my interpretation of section 6.1.6 of jarulf's guide, particularly the statement "Any extra fire or lightning damage from any item other than the bow will be added despite the fact that this is a ranged attack". I'll be using sparking mail and perhaps some uniques hacked onto different base items (e.g. Messerschmidtâs Reaver, flamedart, schaefer's hammer etc).

Rudra · 08-24-2009, 09:53 PM

Think about duels and the pillars in the church halls.;)
Btw with the same speed you cannot hit anything that is 10 tiles away from you in a straight line. :whistling:
If there is a mob and you shoot at it, you never hit the monster which stands 10 tiles away from you. Again, think about duels...

maht1 · 08-25-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:Think about duels and the pillars in the church halls.;)
Btw with the same speed you cannot hit anything that is 10 tiles away from you in a straight line. :whistling:
If there is a mob and you shoot at it, you never hit the monster which stands 10 tiles away from you. Again, think about duels...

I recall having fireballs missing monsters at around ten tiles away with straight line firing, something i could not explain comparing a fireball and arrow both with an effective 95%cth. Is there some article or post which explains this bug? Does this ten tile miss also apply to pvp ( I'm hoping I read this correctly )?

It would be a nice surprise tactic for a sorcerer to fling a lvl 19 - 20 fireball through a pillar. Rather situational considering the limited firing angles, but it might convince the opponent that the pillar isn't all that safe to hide behind.

The duels I have participated in took place at dlvls 1,2, and 16. On 16 the standard arena is the first lever area, which has a few thin walls but I have not witnessed duels taking place within that proximity. However, this could see utilization with the opened third lever room with all those walls and pillars (with infravision). I like the thought of dueling in the third room, though I doubt anyone else would agree to that arena.

Rudra · 08-27-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:Does this ten tile miss also apply to pvp ( I'm hoping I read this correctly )?

Yes it does.:)
But I don't know why it works.

Jarulf · 08-27-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:Yes it does.:)
But I don't know why it works.

The speed is faster than 1 tile and will at times jump the missle more than 1 tile ahead. Think of adding up the numer 1.1 repeatedly and having the integer part indicate which tile, you will skip some integer numbers, like 10 (going from 9.9 to 11).

GhastMaster · 08-28-2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:The speed is faster than 1 tile and will at times jump the missle more than 1 tile ahead. Think of adding up the numer 1.1 repeatedly and having the integer part indicate which tile, you will skip some integer numbers, like 10 (going from 9.9 to 11).

Aha! I thought my fireballs had a certain "chance to hit", but never really thought too much about it. Thanks for the info. I can't believe I'm still learning about this game so many years later.

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me