Avarice Alliance - "Off Days" for raiding

[Soraia]

1. Have an off day. We raid Monday, Thursday, Saturday. The next Monday is off and we open MC on Thursday. Then the next Thurs would be off and we open MC on Saturday. The off day can still be organized for 5 mans or 10-15 man loot raids or outdoor questing or alts gone wild or for nothing at all.
5. Hunt world bosses
6. Bump the rotation start with the floating Ony schedule as Darian mentioned (since that post isn't here basically if we kill Ony on Wed, and Thurs was the star of MC, we move the start of MC to Sat and leave Thursday out and basically an open day to do whatever.  If Ony is killed on a Friday Saturday becomes the open day really just a way to schedule option 1).
7. Have an MC trash day (this would, ideally, be done with Luci and Mags alive so we can get core leather as well). I doubt we'd get a lot of sign up for this but it would give us more crafting mats to make Rag easier.  It would also give us more core leather and Dark Iron ore that could go to a crafter rep fund.  Gnolack is 1880 (I think) Dark Iron ore from Revered (Dark Iron Leggings and Dark Iron Gloves) and a long way away from Exhalted (Dark Iron Boots).
8. Have a PvP night. Either in Battlegrounds or out in the world.
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These are the options that make the most sense to me. Of them, I think #1 or #6 makes the most sense for me personally. I'm concerned that I might raid too much in a given week so there are times I think about scaling back. Also, like WildFire, I'm trying to get Phaedra to Revered with Thorium Brotherhood -- but as a tailor/enchanter, this requires farming coin and gaming the Auction House. (I am at least 10% of the way there but now both Astraea and Phaedra are relatively poor. Selling a Libram of Resilience helped immensely.) Molten Core, Onyxia, or Zul'Gurub, while fun, are relatively poor for moneymaking after you factor in repair costs and the cost of new reagents for Prayer of Fortitude (or Arcane Brilliance should I ever bring my mage to any of these). In these, loot or more points in ARP is the reward -- but those won't help buy DIO for TB rep. :)

I'm also amenable to 5,10,15-man instance runs to do questing or pick up items on my wish list so I can farm better/faster or complete my formula/pattern collection or something. :)

PvP could also be fun. It's been mentioned that I might want to consider that as a break from the near-monotonous grinding necessary to pull off the lunacy I'm trying to do. :) (Well, on the plus side, I'll reach Friendly with Timbermaw tonight or late tomorrow night...)

#5 (world bosses) would be fun if there are any of them up and not already being taken down by other guilds.

In re trash mob runs in MC, how are we doing for these crafting materials? I've not paid attention to the requests thread on the CA forum so I don't know how well our current supplies satisfy demand -- and how well our normal income of cores will meet eventual demand, etc., so on. (I'm a sysadmin, not an economist.)

[Kevin]

I'm concerned that I might raid too much in a given week so there are times I think about scaling back.  Also, like WildFire, I'm trying to get Phaedra to Revered with Thorium Brotherhood -- but as a tailor/enchanter, this requires farming coin and gaming the Auction House. 
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OK here's the thing and I know after some of my comments this is going to sound like I'm taking a different stance. If you don't want to raid because you are raiding to much then don't raid. This would be a lot easier if we consistently got say 50 people signed up so that people could volunteer out of raids. Yes I realize that I've griped about people not making raids it looks like they can make but that specifically seems to be raids where they know that chances of loot dropping are just about zero. Yes I realize it is your time and that there are other goals but we need people on the non loot raids almost more than we need them on loot raids. I'm confident, given the right class balance aside that we could do all our "first night" bosses in MC with just 30 people. Shazz would be significantly tougher (but I think Shazz is one of the hardest boss fights in MC now), but Luci, Mags, Gehennas, Garr (if we have the locks), and Geddon should pose no major problems to a 30 man balanced raid. I think we still need 35 at least for Onyxia because she has gotten much harder to control in the Phase 2 to 3 transition, much harder to get initial aggro on and much harder to get her move to an ideal spot so we lose more people.

I also realize the pressure to go to raids to get more points so you don't "fall behind" but I can tell you that it isn't that big a deal. Remember I have 3 toons that are raiding so it basically is like I am 3 people that raid once a week as far as points go. I'll still get my loots when I want them. Darian misses raids frequently as well and it hasn't seemed to hurt him really either.

Now yes I realize that if you want to do a 5 man and everyone else is in the raid you can't. But remember the off day basically means 3 days one week, 2 day the next week, 3 days the next week, 2 days the next week. So it's not really much less raiding than we are doing now. Every other week we raid 2 nights instead of 3 as that off day cycles through Monday, Thursday, Saturday.

So I guess my leaning is to still do an event that takes a large number of people over doing smaller things if for no other reason than the Sat only or Thurs only, or Monday only people would be down to 3 nights a month if that day has no big raid. And while there are really only about 10 people in that boat, that's enough for me to be concerned about it.


As for thorium brotherhood rep. Gnolack is also grinding to revered and eventually exhalted. I think I need 1880 more Dark Iron ore (or equivalent mats) to to revered so I'm only 620 ore into the grind. While I can mine the ore myself attempts to do so have been pretty poor. Without an epic mount I'm at a horrible disadvantage to the farmers in Burning Steppes and over the last 2 weeks there have been at least 5 of them there at pretty much all hours of the day when I have checked. It may in fact be faster to farm gold and buy the ore or what not than to try and find and mine ore for it yourself. Yes I realize that I just said it might be faster to farm 2400 gold than to farm 2400 dark iron ore. My last 4 sets of 2 hours of grinding for ore yielded 32 dark iron ore. So yep I'm at 32 ore per 8 hours or 4 ore an hour right now. Ore is actually less than 1 gold per ore usually. Even I can grind more than 1 gold an hour.

[Soraia]

OK here's the thing and I know after some of my comments this is going to sound like I'm taking a different stance.  If you don't want to raid because you are raiding to much then don't raid.  This would be a lot easier if we consistently got say 50 people signed up so that people could volunteer out of raids.  Yes I realize that I've griped about people not making raids it looks like they can make but that specifically seems to be raids where they know that chances of loot dropping are just about zero.

Of course, there are other times when I realize that it's not as bad as my housemate who was part of a "hardcore raiding guild" that did all of Molten Core in a single night and then spent the rest of the week running Blackwing Lair. It's hard to go out to dinner when you want to because you can't go without him because he'll complain otherwise. :)

I also can't normally make a decent number of the Thursday runs because of other commitments.

So... there are times I think I'm spending too much time raiding -- and other times I realize that it's not that bad. I don't expect to be changing my times anytime soon.

Yes I realize it is your time and that there are other goals but we need people on the non loot raids almost more than we need them on loot raids.

I agree. It is imperative that we master Ragnaros and Razorgore. And Vael after Razorgore and so on. Even if it means wiping n thousand times, even if it means costing a ransom in repairs, we have to master those encounters. We have to push the envelope or else we'll fall into a rut of just doing things we know we can do.

I'm confident, given the right class balance aside that we could do all our "first night" bosses in MC with just 30 people.  Shazz would be significantly tougher (but I  think Shazz is one of the hardest boss fights in MC now), but Luci, Mags, Gehennas, Garr (if we have the locks), and Geddon should pose no major problems to a 30 man balanced raid.

With the right party makeup and the right gear, I think Shazzrah would be doable with thirty people.

I think we still need 35 at least for Onyxia because she has gotten much harder to control in the Phase 2 to 3 transition, much harder to get initial aggro on and much harder to get her move to an ideal spot so we lose more people.

I've noticed that the tanks seem to have more issues with controlling Onyxia since 1.8 came out. I think that this won't be as much an issue once the aggro strategy is worked out fully. (Then again, what do I know? My designated role is healbot. :) )

I also realize the pressure to go to raids to get more points so you don't "fall behind" but I can tell you that it isn't that big a deal.  Remember I have 3 toons that are raiding so it basically is like I am 3 people that raid once a week as far as points go.  I'll still get my loots when I want them.  Darian misses raids frequently as well and it hasn't seemed to hurt him really either.

I've never been big on the loot. It is admittedly nice but it's not the reason I'm there.

Now yes I realize that if you want to do a 5 man and everyone else is in the raid you can't.  But remember the off day basically means 3 days one week, 2 day the next week, 3 days the next week, 2 days the next week.  So it's not really much less raiding than we are doing now.  Every other week we raid 2 nights instead of 3 as that off day cycles through Monday, Thursday, Saturday. 

Yeah, the inability to do 5-mans or other smaller raids is a recurring complaint within the Basin. Too many of the high level people are committed to the raids so they can' get guild-only runs to do x instance.

So I guess my leaning is to still do an event that takes a large number of people over doing smaller things if for no other reason than the Sat only or Thurs only, or Monday only people would be down to 3 nights a month if that day has no big raid.  And while there are really only about 10 people in that boat, that's enough for me to be concerned about it.

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not really sure what to suggest there, at least until we get far enough into BWL to justify spending two days on it.

As for thorium brotherhood rep.  Gnolack is also grinding to revered and eventually exhalted.  I think I need 1880 more Dark Iron ore (or equivalent mats) to to revered so I'm only 620 ore into the grind.

I think I'm about 280 or so into mine. However, since Phaedra's Human, she doesn't have quite as far to go either. (I think it's only 2190 as opposed to 2400.)

While I can mine the ore myself attempts to do so have been pretty poor.  Without an epic mount I'm at a horrible disadvantage to the farmers in Burning Steppes and over the last 2 weeks there have been at least 5 of them there at pretty much all hours of the day when I have checked.

Have you checked Searing Gorge too? There's the possibility of spawns there too. (When I was farming Incendosaur scales for the initial chunk of TB rep, there was a DIO node in there too.)

It may in fact be faster to farm gold and buy the ore or what not than to try and find and mine ore for it yourself.  Yes I realize that I just said it might be faster to farm 2400 gold than to farm 2400 dark iron ore.  My last 4 sets of 2 hours of grinding for ore yielded 32 dark iron ore.  So yep I'm at 32 ore per 8 hours or 4 ore an hour right now.  Ore is actually less than 1 gold per ore usually.  Even I can grind more than 1 gold an hour.
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The going rate for Dark Iron Ore can be from 65s to 1g per ore, averaging around 75s or 80s. I tend to buy nothing higher than 75s per since I know that there will be stacks put up for auction for less.

DIO is the most gold-efficient way to raise TB rep right now. It's 7g50s or so for 50 rep. Against that, Blood of the Mountain is around 50g for 200. The gold per rep cost for MC stuff is insane.

Depending on drops, I can make from 2g to 7g an hour farming furbolgs. Once I hit Friendly with Timbermaw, I think I'm going to go to WPL or EPL. The undead drop more Runecloth than the furbies and I can turn Rnecloth into enchanting bits I can sell on the AH.

But I think TB rep is a little off topic here. :)

[Ruvanal]

As for thorium brotherhood rep.  Gnolack is also grinding to revered and eventually exhalted.  I think I need 1880 more Dark Iron ore (or equivalent mats) to to revered so I'm only 620 ore into the grind.  While I can mine the ore myself attempts to do so have been pretty poor.  Without an epic mount I'm at a horrible disadvantage to the farmers in Burning Steppes and over the last 2 weeks there have been at least 5 of them there at pretty much all hours of the day when I have checked.  It may in fact be faster to farm gold and buy the ore or what not than to try and find and mine ore for it yourself.  Yes I realize that I just said it might be faster to farm 2400 gold than to farm 2400 dark iron ore.  My last 4 sets of 2 hours of grinding for ore yielded 32 dark iron ore.  So yep I'm at 32 ore per 8 hours or 4 ore an hour right now.  Ore is actually less than 1 gold per ore usually.  Even I can grind more than 1 gold an hour.
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Yikes! That is low rate of getting the ore in Burning Steppes. Taunshu has usually pulled in a much better rate than that, even when some of those epic mount characters are around. The case that a character with an epic mount does not necessarily hold when doing that type of mining. They move fast, but the respawns are on a dynamic respawn situation and you only need to be in the right area when the spawn happens, not run a race across the zone to get to a specific spot. Note that I have hit RTVs and DIDs in BS after I saw a epic mounted miner pass the area before I got there, the spawn can happen shortly after they passby too. I did a similar thing with Taunshu at level 35 in Charred Vale for mithril spawns and going up against mounted characters; I just needed to be at a spawing node before them, not race them across the area to get to a specific one.

My only question to myself on the Thorium Brotherhood reputation right now is, should I push the Dark Iron Ore to Andar for another Armorsmith, or use it on Littledude for a Tailor/Enchanter?

[Kevin]

Yikes!  That is low rate of getting the ore in Burning Steppes.  Taunshu has usually pulled in a much better rate than that, even when some of those epic mount characters are around.  The case that a character with an epic mount does not necessarily hold when doing that type of mining.  They move fast, but the respawns are on a dynamic respawn situation and you only need to be in the right area when the spawn happens, not run a race across the zone to get to a specific spot.  Note that I have hit RTVs and DIDs in BS after I saw a epic mounted miner pass the area before I got there, the spawn can happen shortly after they passby too.  I did a similar thing with Taunshu at level 35 in Charred Vale for mithril spawns and going up against mounted characters; I just needed to be at a spawing node before them, not race them across the area to get to a specific one.

My only question to myself on the Thorium Brotherhood reputation right now is, should I push the Dark Iron Ore to Andar for another Armorsmith, or use it on Littledude for a Tailor/Enchanter?
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Well I've mentioned it before. I have horrible luck finding much of anything but mithril and small thorium in Burning Steppes. I get my best ore rate when I stay in the caves killing ogres and getting the 3 or 4 DIO nodes that can pop in there but there are a lot of others that camp in there as well. But at least I get to farm some runecloth that was too. People tell me they have 16 RTV's mapped there I have 8 now and know of 2 more. I have about 4 DIO spawns not ogre cave mapped and know of one more. Unlike Un'Goro where I know the spawn groups well (if something spawns on the volcano I know where to go in Terror run to get another 2 nodes) I have no idea of this in BS becuase if I hit a node by luck I can't beat anyone to the other spots to even see if the stuff spawns in before they might have it mined.

I've also gone to Searing Gorge and there are a few DIO spawns that I know about there but since I have several thorium users I still like to get a shot at it. And I've tried every day of the week the only time frame I haven't tried is 4am to 6am server time.

If you don't mind Gnolack making your armorsmith stuff I think it makes more sense for us to try and coordinate professions that are doing the push. No sense to me in having 2 armorsmiths at revered and no tailors or enchanters or leatherworkers or whatever..

[Ruvanal]

Well I've mentioned it before. I have horrible luck finding much of anything but mithril and small thorium in Burning Steppes.  I get my best ore rate when I stay in the caves killing ogres and getting the 3 or 4 DIO nodes that can pop in there but there are a lot of others that camp in there as well.  But at least I get to farm some runecloth that was too.  People tell me they have 16 RTV's mapped there I have 8 now and know of 2 more.  I have about 4 DIO spawns not ogre cave mapped and know of one more.  Unlike Un'Goro where I know the spawn groups well (if something spawns on the volcano I know where to go in Terror run to get another 2 nodes) I have no idea of this in BS becuase if I hit a node by luck I can't beat anyone to the other spots to even see if the stuff spawns in before they might have it mined.

I've also gone to Searing Gorge and there are a few DIO spawns that I know about there but since I have several thorium users I still like to get a shot at it.  And I've tried every day of the week the only time frame I haven't tried is 4am to 6am server time.

If you don't mind Gnolack making your armorsmith stuff I think it makes more sense for us to try and coordinate professions that are doing the push.  No sense to me in having 2 armorsmiths at revered and no tailors or enchanters or leatherworkers or whatever..
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Oh, I was orginally planning on Andar going for the reputation. But with what I have seen, I have been leaning more and more to just having Littledude do it instead for now.

And an important note about the Dark Iron Deposits (DIDs); there are no special spawns of them anywhere in Searing Gorge or Burning Steppes. ALL mineral nodes in those areas have a chance of spawning as DIDs. I have mapped a lot of nodes prior to the change in those areas and in everyone of the cases I have seen both the orginal mineral type spawning and a DID spawning in the same spot. The DIDs are effectively the special spawn of all mineral deposits in those two zones.

[kandrathe]

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[ZG loot RANT]
If there is no instance lock (ie. Thursday run) then one option would be to go into ZG and clear everything but the bosses.  I don't know how other people are doing, but I'm almost (2200 pts away from) Honored and I have yet to come close (1/10 coins, 0/2 Green Bijous) to collecting the crap I need for even my friendly quest.  At the rate this is going it will be six months before I get the pieces I need for friendly and Honored (Revered stuff, whew who knows), or I can try to snipe stuff off the AH.  This is one reason I HATE random as it is bound to screw some people, and favor others.  I know I have been lucky on some things (like the Gun, and the Primal Aegis), but in truth I would rather have about 15 more coins, and a few more Bijous than I have now.    Sorry, to vent this here, but I really think there must be a better way to try to match the loot drops(coins/bijous esp.) to people's Friendly faction quests (then Honored, etc).  I guess I am most distressed with my 0/5 Sandfury coins, and 1/5 Skullsplitter coins and I have 1/6 of the needed Bijous -- it is just dismal and discouraging.
[/ZG Loot RANT]
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I cross posted this on the Basin ZG thread as well.

<snip>
I was reading about what other guilds were doing.

The most common was that all the coins and bijous were banked. Primal Foo's for enchants were greed. If you were at < Honored you could roll need on your class friendly Primal, greed for your Honored, Revered. Once at Honored, you could roll need for your Friendly and Honored Primal, greed for your revered. But, whoever won a Primal Foo item, and was capable of turning in the quest was given the coins and bijous to complete the quest from the guild bank. If the bank does not yet have the items needed, the requests are filled in the order they are received. This keeps the coins and bijous from drifting off to people who might take months, or never complete the faction quests.
</snip>

[Soraia]

If you don't mind Gnolack making your armorsmith stuff I think it makes more sense for us to try and coordinate professions that are doing the push.&nbsp; No sense to me in having 2 armorsmiths at revered and no tailors or enchanters or leatherworkers or whatever..
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For what little it's worth, I've bought just about 20% of my needed DIO. (439 of 2190.) Now I just need to start turning it in -- and purchase the other 1750 or so. Because I'm a total geek, I'm keeping track of my status in Phaedra's entry on the Basin wiki.

DIO prices might be going up again. The cheapest stack I saw around midnight server time last night was 7g75s. Someone had cleaned the AH of everything else.

[Legedi]

On the topic of what to do on off days.

1) I'd love to give the world bosses a try. But we would have to have a good backup plan for the raid when they aren't there.

2) BWL day 2 when we get there, and the new 1.9 instance. But neither of those work right now, but we should be ready to change so we can do those.

3) Farm MC for cores/DIO/BOE. If we want to get Rag, and far into BWL we need good FR gear. Sure there are other ways to get FR gear. But everyone can't be running around in all green FR.