Razorgore Thoughts

[Bolty]

Last night the Avarice Alliance ran a few attempts against Razorgore. With each attempt, we got closer to eliminating the eggs in the chamber and surviving phase 1. The record was 9 eggs left before 10:00 PM rolled around and people had to go.

I'm going to start this thread with my observations and ideas based only on what I saw. I didn't get to see every facet of every fight, of course, so input is needed.

Background info:

The Razorgore encounter is at the very, very beginning of Blackwing Lair. It is a square room filled with large dragon eggs. On the west end is an Orb, which is used to Mind Control Razorgore. Whoever is mind controlling Razorgore must be left untouched so that they can use the boss to destroy the eggs.

While the eggs are being attacked, enemy mobs appear in steady waves out of the corners in order to attack Razorgore and/or the player using the Orb. You must keep Razorgore alive because he is the only way to destroy the eggs (AFAIK).

The standard engagement begins with the group assaulting the controllers on the west platform, killing them off and starting the event. At that point there's around 40 seconds until the adds start to come.

The adds are made up of 3 types:

1) Legionnaires. Standard melee mobs, but have a vicious Dragon Strike attack that does insane damage. They also cleave, so it's critical for non-tanks to stay away from them at all costs.

2) Dragonkin. Your standard, nasty, hard-hitting dragonkin.

3) Mages. Casters that are easier to take down due to fewer hit points, but pack a punch at a distance.

Our first two attempts were pretty awful from a standpoint of progress against the eggs. Here's what we tried and why it didn't work, since it's always worthy to talk about what fails so that we learn:

We would send two groups to each corner after the initial takedown of the controllers. Tanks in each set of groups would try to keep aggro on the mobs coming out of that corner, so that they don't run off to the orb controller. I know personally this bombed badly when casters were not keeping clear of the Legionnaire's cleaves, and the tanks were having a brutal time holding aggro. If the tank DID manage to grab aggro from most every mob coming out of their corner, a Priest spamming Flash Heal constantly could not keep them vertical.

This also fails because once a tank or healer in a corner falls, it's over. As the corner dies, the mobs move on to other corners and overwhelm the group. We all pretty much agreed that it wasn't going to work as a strategy.

Duana, I believe, came up with the golden suggestion we tried on the next two runs: kite groups. I lept on that because it sounded a lot better than the previous plan. So we went with that and the belief is we can win with it if it's executed right.

Here's the basics of that plan:

1) We form two kite groups. A kite group is made up of a Warrior, a Paladin, and a Healer. What's the healer, a Priest or a Druid? Well, that's tough. A Priest can Shield and Renew while on the run, while a Druid can only Regrowth. A Druids' HOT heals for more hit points than a Priest's, though. But Druids are useful to beast-sleep the mob adds, and Priests can fade. I think it's a toss-up as to which class to use as a kite healer. Right now I'm leaning toward Priest simply because of Shield being so useful if the kiting tank gets beat on too much suddenly.

The goal of the kiting warrior is to run around the room, getting the attention of as many mobs as possible while using the ramps in the room to get space. The Paladin and Healer in the kiting group keep him alive with low-aggro heals (Renews, Pally Heals). I found that with 4 or 5 Dragonkin following Anadrol around I had no trouble keeping him vertical. The kiting warrior needs to grab as many melee mobs as they possibly can in order to increase the survival rate of the DPS group.

2) The DPS group represents the bulk of the raid, standing roughly in the center of the room. The DPS group must NOT bunch up too much, however, because the Legionnaire's cleave will rip them apart that way. So spread out. Keep clear of the kiting warriors' pathway as they run around the room.

The goal of the DPS group is to eliminate the enemy mages that spawn. As the mages are killed, hopefully more melee'rs come out in their place, and the kiting warriors can pick them up. Warriors in the DPS group intercept incoming melee mobs who have aggroed on a DPS group healer. The DPS group should ONLY be attacking mages and applying crowd control to anything threatening them. This means Druids sleep, Mages sheep, Priests psychic scream, Warlocks fear, anything and everything to keep mobs off the DPS group.

3) The controller group is made up of two players who switch off on using the orb to control Razorgore and destroy the eggs. Others in the group keep the controller shielded and intercept anyone coming for the controller.


Once the eggs are destroyed, the mobs clear out and the raid has to take on Razorgore. This is a lot easier than Phase 1, as long as you have enough players left to fight him with.


Overall, what makes this fight so difficult is that it's so DIFFERENT from other encounters we've done. Much like the Shazzrah encounter, there's no one obvious (tank this, heal this, DPS on this) strategy, and some classes have to do things that run counter to what they're used to.

a) Kiting warriors have to run around like ninnies instead of actually tanking anything directly.
b) Kite group healers have constantly mobile targets to keep alive and must always be on the move themselves instead of standing in place and raining down heals.
c) DPS group killers have no DPS call on anything; they have to be on their toes, find a mage to kill, and attack it.
d) Crowd control must be heavily applied, and in raid situations it's almost never used. A Priest using Psychic Scream in a raid? Gasp!
e) Controller groups might have a player using the Orb who has never used Mind Control before.
f) Everyone must constantly be on their toes since more mobs keep spawning from all four corners on a regular basis. No sleepily pressing your Shadowbolt/Frostbolt/Attack button on this one!

Please post with your experiences on the encounter and if you have any suggestions (what went right, what went wrong), post em. Lurkers with experience beating Razorgore should also chime in if they have golden strat nuggets to pass on. I don't believe we failed last night due to lack of equipment; you could make that argument for Ragnaros, but not here.

-Bolty

[Zippyy]

1) Legionnaires. Standard melee mobs, but have a vicious Dragon Strike attack that does insane damage. They also cleave, so it's critical for non-tanks to stay away from them at all costs.
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Point taken. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the new plan is going to do it for us, I think. Also, 37 people is a far cry from the 18 (with 1 afk) we had on our first run. We're so close I can taste it!

As for warlocks, Fearing is a plus. I'm not sure if priority targets should be mages, legos (as I call them), or dragons. I've asked about using a Succubus for added CC on the orcs, which (afaik) was met by silence. I think I'll whip her out on the next run and see. The mage's fireballs seem to be a fairly long cast, and I think the Seduce and Fear cast times are actually shorter, allowing them to interrupt the spell. I'll leave it up to the RL whether or not the Succubus is more valuable than Blood Pact for the kiting warriors.

One downside of fearing the mages is that it throws them out of range of our rogues, who represent a sizable chunk of dps. Then again, soloing one mage is pretty feasable for me (Fear, CoS, Death Coil to interrupt, and big SB's), so the CC might be more valuable than rogue dps.

Experience has shown that Howl of Terror is a bad idea. Psychic Scream is nice because it's 1) instant, and 2) two mobs. It creates some breathing room and 2 mobs aren't that hard to get off the priest once the fear wears off. Howl of Terror is a 2 second cast, and fears 5 mobs. Unless some miracle happens, 5 mobs aren't going to be pulled off the warlock once the fear expires. Basically, if a warlock Howls, he/she will be dead quite soon. Also, if a Howl is needed, it's probably going to be a wipe anyway. That lock would be much more valuable DPSing and CCing two mobs with Fear and Seduce than CCing 5 mobs for 15 seconds, then dying.

Also, I threw Siphon Life up on several of the mobs that were being kited. It's a very low aggro DoT, and I had no problems whatsoever pulling aggro. Getting 60~ hp every 3 seconds x5 went a long way toward keeping me vertical, as did Bolty!

He heals me, he really heals me! :wub:

[Treesh]

Experience has shown that Howl of Terror is a bad idea.  Psychic Scream is nice because it's 1) instant, and 2) two mobs.  It creates some breathing room and 2 mobs aren't that hard to get off the priest once the fear wears off.  Howl of Terror is a 2 second cast, and fears 5 mobs.  Unless some miracle happens, 5 mobs aren't going to be pulled off the warlock once the fear expires. 
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Psychic scream hits up to 5 mobs at rank 4. And I had absolutely no problem with critters coming back onto me after I screamed (when we were doing the kiting strategy). If worse comes to worse, I can scream and then fade and that will more than likely get the things off me permanently.

[Zarathustra]

Very good outline of the encounter, Bolty. I've only tried it once, and it was more or less a joke run. It was the day BWL was implemented and a group of 15 of us had just gotten attuned after killing Drakkisath. So we figured... why not? What proceded was a slaughter. Still, I was pretty proud. With zero foreknowledge we figured out the orb ont he fly and took down 6 eggs before wiping.

One nit to fix in the writeup is that a Druid's on-the-run heal is Rejuvenation, not Regrowth.

[Kevin]

If we are going to do more kiting all the time, and I think we should, everyone in the raid must realize they are probably going to have to kite for awhile.

If you get a melee mob on you can you can't get is CC'd near the kiters path (and I did have a dem shout hit a sheep that broke while I could still see it and followed me) then you need to kite it and get it near the kiter or one of the warriors who can take more of a beating getting it to a kiter.

You can bandage yourself in this fight as well. On the last 4 corners kiting attempt when I was letting tal get some kiting exeperience before we went to the two kiters I actually did this. There were a couple of loose legos who I got on me with a taunt and a single swing on the other got to tal and he picked them up. I had taken a good 3000 damage because I toe to toe'd them for a bit so I stopped and bandaged myself. Like any other raid self healing is good.

My healers when I was doing the half room kite said they didn't actually have to move to heal me. I got in my path groove and I stayed in healer range the whole time with them only needed slight adjustments at most. The paladin would just throw a Holy Light or Flash of Light on me as needed. Since generally the only things that hit me were new mobs I picked up via an attack due to not having enough rage to dem shout grab them I didn't really need a lot of healing.

This encounter has me almost wanting to go back to my 31/11/9 spec with piercing howl and just 4 in tactical mastery. I do love anger management though... But piercing howl is a big help to the kiter by slowing the down the mobs and giving you more aggro on them. Dem shout spam to get the mobs does work well if you have defiance. New mobs generally have no or little aggro from someone else. The mobs that are following you get that much more aggro on you so that healing doesn't peel. Anger Managements passive rage generation helps here too so that is the trade off for no howl.

Kiters, if you miss a mob pick-up don't worry about it. We wiped last night because I did this. I was going up the orb ramp and saw a mob, didn't have enough rage for dem shout and bloodrage was in cooldown so I decided to try and get a melee attack in on him to grab him. Well hitting the 'T' key to start the attack while I was doing a turn had my hand shifted (my middle finger that does the forward/back motion was on the d key for the turn while my index finger that does the turns normally was on the t key and my ring finger had slid up to the drive key I do this all the time without thinking about it and normally not an issue) so I ended up sliding fingers back to strafing not running. That let the 20 or so mobs that were chasing me catch me and it was over. Maybe an intimidating shout and a dash to the other ramp to help get them clustered or a shield wall might have saved me but I doubt it. You simply can not stop moving (except maybe on the ramps/ledges) while you are kiting, you can't really change your path either.

This is the biggest weakness to the kite. If a kiter goes down, as we saw, it is all over right now. If you react well enough to a corner over run and can pull off a collapse to the center of the room you might make it at least from some stuff I've read. But I do think the 2 kiters will work for us. I thought about 2 kiters and 4 corners still so that any new mobs will probably still be in the corners when I come by but we'll stick with the middle.

As a note on the kiting it was something that I was hoping to try, not quite like we did it but the first 2 corner hold runs were not even remotely executed like I was hoping (first becasue we didn't get to the corners quick enough, then because of confusion on what the tanks were doing and me issues conflicting orders to them) that I had to try it a couple more times to see if more practice would make it work better.

It wasn't written up the first post because the corner hold stuff seemed to be more successful for more groups in some of the skimming I had done and partly because with me not getting internet at all till about 6 server and not getting it stable till about 6:30 server I didn't have time to write a lot of it down.

I really want to know what the DPS groups were like. What could help that. Again I do think the raid needs to realize that any melee mob should not take any damage (I thought maybe we could kill dragonkin, we can't or should) they should be CC'd in as low an aggro method as possible or simply kited for a bit by whoever has aggro. I figure we can have 2 or 3 people at most die in phase 1 if we want to be successful later on.

I've got the strats as we tried them over here: http://www.carpeaurum.com/modules.php?name...viewtopic&t=474 for the avarice only members to look at and comment on as well.

[kandrathe]

From my Hunter pov, I think;

• With so many mobs around Feign Death is resisted often, so being able to drop a Frost Trap is unreliable<>
  
• Dragonkin are immune to frost trap effects, so only the legos and mages were affected (mostly legos) -- more druids to hibernate the dragonkin perhaps.<>
  
• When I was in the middle and a DPS call was made I would choose the caller's target, but had no clue where the mob was and would get "You need to be facing the target" or "Out of Range" or "Too Close" messages as hints but precious time was lost<>
  
• Perhaps some other CC tricks, like engineering gadgets to stun, MC helmets on the mages, using the razorgores platform to jump off of to get more distance for kiting, target dummies, thornling seeds, etc.<>
  
• Perhaps warriors saving their mob aggro shouts for the latest possible time where they will grab the most number, and being positioned so that there is little overlap in shouts and priest fearing.<>
  [st]
  I'll add more later as I digest and process last nights tremendous progress.

[Legedi]

A few ideas I had after thinking about our last run:

1) Warrior kitters should get a pair of boots with minor speed enchants on them. It could help a lot in pulling away from mobs if they get too close.

2) Hunters would make good back-up kitters. Having one or two hunters that just run around the edge of the DPS group close look for any melee mobs that start attacking DPS. If the warrior can't pick them up warrior can get aggro from range. Then with the aspect of the cheetah could kit the mobs without using the ramps (using the ramps would take them too far away from the center to pickup new mobs, and they could get hit by mobs from the warrior kits). The hunters should only have 2-3 mobs at the most, if they get more we are doing things wrong. This might not be needed, or a good idea, but it is something to think about.

3) Everyone should have potions/health stones. I care about 20 superior healing potions on me. They only heal for 700-900, but are less than 20s a pop, so you can use them a lot. Kitters might also want swiftness potions, but I think we should be able to do it without.

4) DPS should only target mobs to attack by using the tank windows. We want zero damage done to melee so kitters can handle them. Druids should of course sleep dragonkin. I don't know if it is better for mages to sheep the orc mages or Legas. Probably the extra mages. Also, do not sheep/sleep melee as soon as you see them. Wait to see if a kitter picks them up. Save the sheep/sleep for mobs that come after the DPS group.

5) Priest fears and mage FN should only be used if they are getting beat on, and they are going to die. Otherwise it is likely you will have aggro after the affect is done, and die anyways. If you have just one mob on you run to a kitter. Try to let them pick it up. If we use AOE fears and FN and such too early we will lose control too soon.

[Kevin]

[*]Perhaps some other CC tricks, like engineering gadgets to stun, MC helmets on the mages, using the razorgores platform to jump off of to get more distance for kiting, target dummies, thornling seeds, etc.
[*]Perhaps warriors saving their mob aggro shouts for the latest possible time where they will grab the most number, and being positioned so that there is little overlap in shouts and priest fearing.
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We did use the platform by the orb or at least the ramps for more distance. Well I was using the platform after Quark said that with the controller on the ground the cleaves of a kited mob didn't hit them.

I did try to use my shout to get the most mobs (and I took the path closer to the middle to get more mobs a few times) but this is so much easier said than done because if you deviate from the path too much and start getting hit by that kite pile (and the mobs end up "stacking" so if you are in range of one you are probably in rage of about 15) you are probably dead when you get hit. Also with some damage having been done to some of the melee mobs one shout wasn't always enough to get them. Rank 1 frost nova seems to be weak enough on aggro that I can get the stuff with just one shout. This is something that will need to be tested though and it can be tested on mobs in Loch Modan or anywhere too, just have any mage use rank 1 FN and then have a warrior dem shout and see where it goes when the nova breaks. If the mob goes to the warrior then rank 1 FN on the edges of the DPS near the kiters will be awesome.

More CC is good but again you should only be CC'ing in an emergency or to help keep the mages under control until DPS can get to them. If you get melee aggro you need to kite it to a warrior. They don't run faster than you so if you get any distance on them they won't attack you again. I only got attacked by things in the kite path when I stopped for too long on a platform to make sure they were heading up it or had to change path a bit to pick up a new mob. Since I know my dem shout already does more aggro than a single sleep or a single sheeping I don't mind the use of that for CC on anything but priority should be non tanked mages also if we only sheep mages then a tank or other DPS caller (and I had hunters doing this for the hold the corners) can just pick and pop sheep. Simpler is better too. This is one of the reasons the kiting worked better, peoples jobs were simplier.

The idea on the kite is that eventually, everything will be following the 2 warriors and that the rest of the raid is standing around doing nothing till the eggs are all broken. And yes, if I don't have to pick up new mobs and I don't screw up my kite path then I shouldn't even need any healing. Though I don't know know if we can get it to all 40 melee mobs before the eggs are all broken. But that is the ideal. Two warriors running around, one person controlling the orb and the other 37 people sitting around bored. :)

[Mirajj]

2) Hunters would make good back-up kitters. Having one or two hunters that just run around the edge of the DPS group close look for any melee mobs that start attacking DPS. If the warrior can't pick them up warrior can get aggro from range. Then with the aspect of the cheetah could kit the mobs without using the ramps (using the ramps would take them too far away from the center to pickup new mobs, and they could get hit by mobs from the warrior kits). The hunters should only have 2-3 mobs at the most, if they get more we are doing things wrong. This might not be needed, or a good idea, but it is something to think about.
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Cheetah kiting = bad. A single mistake or mistep, and it's dazed and game over. ;)

[Skandranon]

Please post with your experiences on the encounter and if you have any suggestions (what went right, what went wrong), post em.&nbsp; Lurkers with experience beating Razorgore should also chime in if they have golden strat nuggets to pass on.&nbsp; I don't believe we failed last night due to lack of equipment; you could make that argument for Ragnaros, but not here.
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I agree, Razorgore isn't a gear-dependent fight. You could beat him in blues if you'd had enough practice. There are guilds (not on Stormrage, but on other servers), who've beaten Razorgore but not Rag.

As for strat to pass on...well, you understand the encounter completely (or at least as completely as I do). There's very little of value that anyone not in Avarice can add; part of the Razorgore learning process is figuring out what works for your group and learning to do it. Browse the official Raids and Dungeons forum and you'll see a lot of posts along the lines of, "oh, I watched a Razorgore video and my guild has tried it 40 times and can't beat it!" Unlike just about any other encounter in the game, you can't simply lift someone else's strategy and try to paste it on to your own raid group - it just doesn't work. What does work is exactly what you're doing right now - making practice runs, seeing what went wrong, talking about how to fix it.

There are literally as many ways to beat Razorgore as there are different actions you can take. Which one you pick depends on your class mix, which of your players are most skilled, and what the players' levels of equipment are. By this I don't mean that the Razorgore fight is gear-dependent or that Avarice players are unskilled. The fact is, some Avarice players are better geared than other Avarice players; some Avarice players are more skilled than other Avarice players. These factors will influence your strategy and affect how the responsibilities are assigned.

You've grasped the essence of the fight. Razorgore phase 1 is simply about control. There are always going to be 40 mobs in the room; twelve dragonkin and twenty-eight orcs. Kill a mob and there will be one to replace it in at most eight seconds. You only need to find the answers to four questions.

1) How do we stop Dragonkin from killing us?
2) How do we stop Mages from killing us?
3) How do we stop Legionnaires from killing us?
4) How do we make 1-3 last for three minutes?

And when you wipe, the key question to ask is: which element of the fight killed us - dragonkin, mages, or legionnaires? How do we fix our plan for dealing with that element so that they don't kill us next time? And then adjust. After more practice - probably, lots more practice - you'll arrive at your strategy, and you'll be able to pull it off and win every time.

[Legedi]

Cheetah kiting = bad. A single mistake or mistep, and it's dazed and game over. ;)
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Well the warrior kitters are in the same mess really. We saw how fast GG melted with his mistep. It's the nature of the encounter. And I'd rather have a hunter getting mashed on than a priest :whistling: .

[Skandranon]

Rank 1 frost nova seems to be weak enough on aggro that I can get the stuff with just one shout.&nbsp; This is something that will need to be tested though and it can be tested on mobs in Loch Modan or anywhere too, just have any mage use rank 1 FN and then have a warrior dem shout and see where it goes when the nova breaks.&nbsp; If the mob goes to the warrior then rank 1 FN on the edges of the DPS near the kiters will be awesome.[right][snapback]95244[/snapback][/right]

A cautionary note about Frost Nova.

When a mob is not rooted, it attempts to attack the target that is highest on its hate list. If it is not in range of that target, it will attempt to move to that target, and thus can be kited, especially if snared.

If a mob *is* rooted, it attempts to attack the highest-aggro target in melee range. If someone is beside a rooted orc, the orc will not keep looking at the highest-aggro target - it'll take a swing at what it can reach. If anyone is standing anywhere near the kite when it gets frost novaed, they can expect to be instantly slain as the legionnaires lock on to whatever they can hit and go after it. One cast of frost nova can result in several instantaneous deaths if not carefully applied.

[savaughn]

Can I recommend that a lvl 1 blast wave is infinitely superior to nova when doing kiting circles? I know, I know - we don't do fire spec in a raid.

But AOE daze is priceless when a warrior will be by to a) pick up the taunt and B) run on by meaning the resulting dazed mob will never catch up.

[Kevin]

Can I recommend that a lvl 1 blast wave is infinitely superior to nova when doing kiting circles?&nbsp; I know, I know - we don't do fire spec in a raid.

But AOE daze is priceless when a warrior will be by to a) pick up the taunt and B) run on by meaning the resulting dazed mob will never catch up.
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Blast wave would be great. It's basically that same piercing howl. And yep AoE daze is great.

[The Gnu]

How my guild does this encounter:

Four tanks for the first few seconds, one keeping Razorgore on the altar until the controller can grab him, the other three taking care of the 3 mobs on the altar.

When the three on the altar are down two groups head for each corner, apart from two warriors assigned to kiting.

Phase one (the initial Razorgore controls)

Controller: Starts destroying the eggs on the altar, then moves down to the floor.

Warriors: 2 kiting warriors use the ramps to kite primarily dragonkin, but also stray legionaires. Rest of them are guarding priests and taking out mages with their groups.

Priests: At least one priest per corner assigned to mind controlling legionaires, hitting something with them and releasing the mind control. This causes the MCed legionaire to despawn. Also helps out with healing on kiters, and some healing on the groups. Healing over time spells are preferred, to cause less aggro.

Rogues, mages, warlocks, hunters: Kill all the mages that spawn. Control incoming legionaires until a priest can MC them.

Druids, paladins: Healbots. Have to keep healing to a minimum to not mess up the kiting.

Phase two (time for Razorgore to do his thing)

About 20 seconds before the second MC of Razorgore expires, the controller warns the kiting warriors. They bring their kited dragonkin closer to the centre of the room and the controller uses Razorgore's AOE attack. This will cause all aggro in the room to go to Razorgore. The controller moves Razorgore away from the orb, then releases control before Razorgore gets killed.

This will again transfer all the aggro, this time to the controller, who is now the new kiter. The warrior who is going to MT Razorgore takes over as controller.

Warriors:
One controlling Razorgore, one kiting the pain train. The two original kiters following the kiter ready to AOE fear if the kiter goes down, and doing piercing howls if the legionaires get close.

Priests:
2 following the original controller, keeping him shielded and renewed. All other keep their original roles in the corner groups.

Rogues, mages: Dps on mages.

Hunters, warlocks: Kiting dragonkin that spawn after the controller switch. Dps on mages.

Druids: Sleeping dragonkin that are not kited. Heal over time's to keep everyone alive.

Paladins: Heal

Phase three (Razorgore)

When all eggs have been taken down, all the mobs will run out of the room leaving only Razorgore. Since the MT was the last one controlling, he will automatically gain aggro from Razorgore. He takes Razorgore to one of the corners, to leave a "safe zone" for healers and dps.

While the tank builds some aggro, you have a great oppertunity to start some resurrecting chains. A druid resses a priest that resses a priest that re... etc. We've had bad runs where half the raid has been killed by this point, only to recover due to druids and jumper cables.

Off tank also on Razorgore at all times, to either get conflag instead of the MT, or to hold him until the effect wears off.

Melee dps moving in and out, bandaging when needed.
Ranged dps trying to time Razorgores aoe to avoid getting hit and bandaging when hit.
Healers focusing on tanks primarily, other healers in second hand. They can now use "real" heals, and skip the HoT's as soon as the MT gets some aggro.

The biggest problem with this tactic is usually healers getting aggro and being swiftly executed. We usually assign holy/disc priests to do whatever healing to be done, due to lower threat caused, and shadow priests for the mind controls, for the lower resist chance.

It's also essential that the groups take care of their healers and the kiting warriors. It's usually better to lose some time dpsing a legionaire to death than losing the priest.

[Bolty]

Priests: At least one priest per corner assigned to mind controlling legionaires, hitting something with them and releasing the mind control. This causes the MCed legionaire to despawn.[right][snapback]95312[/snapback][/right]

Woah, didn't know this. It just disappears when you release it? That's pretty huge - Priests can keep Legionnaire spawns at bay via this method.

-Bolty

[The Gnu]

Yeah, this definatly was one of the big revelations we had while working out our tactics. The way aggro works with Razorgore's aoe attack and various controllers is still what can make or break a raid IMO. :)

I've read other tactics that I think would work really well too, but when we tried this for the first time we went from having 1-10 eggs left when we wiped, to wiping at 24% with all eggs gone. After that we've just worked on making the details of it work smoother. ;)

[Skandranon]

Priests: At least one priest per corner assigned to mind controlling legionaires, hitting something with them and releasing the mind control. This causes the MCed legionaire to despawn. [right][snapback]95312[/snapback][/right]

Interesting. Sounds like an exploit to me, though. I can't imagine that MC causing things to despawn was intended.

[Sword_of_Doom]

Interesting.&nbsp; Sounds like an exploit to me, though.&nbsp; I can't imagine that MC causing things to despawn was intended.
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I would definitely check with a Game Master before even trying this. I agree with Skan, i would guess that Blizzard never intended you to be able to despawn mobs and that possibly could be an exploit.

[The Gnu]

We actually have discussed this with a GM on our server, and he did not consider it to be an exploit.

Either way MC, with or without releasing the control, is a very effective tool to control the number of legionaires. They can be kited/killed as well, (there are always 5-10 legionaires after the kiter, even if you use this tactic) but it makes the marginals of survival for the kiter much smaller.