quick question: elemental damage (bug)

[Fragbait]

Hi,

I've just a quick question:

How does elemental damage work? I know that there was some sort of bug around. We're talking of vanilla Diablo 1.09 here.
The reason I'm asking this is that if it really and legitly so deals a lot of damage (to non-elemental immunes at least), I'm considering a weapon change. Midora-Lherok's (clvl 42) stats are:

(dam equipment)
Str: 124
Mag: 139
Dex: 319
Vit: 168
AC: 256
CTH: 209%
Dam: 95-122
ResM: 0%
ResF: 35%
ResL: 0%
Life: 319
Mana: 359

(res equipment)
Str: 92
Mag: 93
Dex: 291
Vit: 122
AC: 251
CTH: 195%
Dam: 82-109
ResM: MAX
ResF: MAX
ResL: MAX
Life: 250
Mana: 233

, and I'm considering a Savage (124%) LWB of Lightning (Thunder possibly?) vs. my current bow, a Savage (112%) LWB of the Heavens (+13). By now I'm guessing that my current bow is way better.

And yes, I know that it's basically unimportant because 'rogues are so uber-elite anyway', and 'why don't I use a cursed bow to make it more interesting - I must be a wimp...'. Let's not get there.


Greetings, Fragbait

[Nystul]

From Jarulf's Guide:

Fire and lightning attacks on bows work pretty much the same as the ones on melee weapons. There are some exceptions. As arrows to start with are already effects, there is no need to spawn a special effect for the extra fire and lightning damage like there is for melee weapons. Instead, as soon as the fire or lightning arrow hits and has done its non magical damage, the effect will switch into a fire or lightning damage attack, quite similar to the one spawned for melee attacks. This extra fire or lightning attack will, as opposed to with melee attacks, hit more than once and will try 7 times (9 if fire) before it ends. Any extra fire or lightning damage from any item other than the bow will be added despite the fact that this is a ranged attack.

Fire and lightning arrows are quite buggy and the list below tries to summarize some of the bugs related to them.

    * The to hit calculations for the fire and lightning attack part, although magical, still use normal arrow to hit formulas.
    * The fire and lightning damage is not halved for player versus player like all other magical damage is.
    * Unlike melee fire and lightning damage, they can hit and deal damage more than once. This might not be a bug but probably is.
    * Damage calculations for the fire and lightning part still include the normal character damage and will even apply such modifiers as +% damage to the fire and lightning damage. Basically, the damage range of the fire and lightning damage is treated as the "bow damage range" and thus modified as appropriately for a normal arrow attack.
    * Despite what is said above, both monsters and players will resist the damage if they have resistance to the appropriate magic type (fire or lightning).
    * The actual fire and lightning damage will often not hit the same place as the arrow did, meaning one will often escape the extra high damage caused by fire and lightning bows. {blockable?}

The end result is a ton of damage (although not consistently applied) if the enemy is not resistant or immune to lightning. But do you actually kill such creatures with a bow? With a high level, non-variant rogue, I tend to kill everything that isn't resistant to lightning with CL. And in that case, the extra mana and life from the "of heavens" is a bit useful, while the damage suffix isn't.

[Fragbait]

But do you actually kill such creatures with a bow? With a high level, non-variant rogue, I tend to kill everything that isn't resistant to lightning with CL.[right][snapback]95170[/snapback][/right]

Yes, I do. Casting CL can often cost me dearly when I awake half of the level, i.e. in the caves.
And then there's the satisfaction when you nail down your foes one after the other at a bottleneck in the level. :w00t:
Of course I do use CL now and then, and if it fits to a level I admit to use it rather excessively. But I ask you: if you play you're rogue only to cast CL all the time - why don't you play a sorcerer straight away?

I guess what I'm trying to convey is: The damage is important to me. Period.
Thanks for the hint nevertheless... Memo to self: always consult JG first.

Greetings, Fragbait

[Nystul]

Of course I do use CL now and then, and if it fits to a level I admit to use it rather excessively. But I ask you: if you play you're rogue only to cast CL all the time - why don't you play a sorcerer straight away?
[right][snapback]95400[/snapback][/right]

That's usually what I do.. just play a sorcerer straight away. High level rogues are pretty much worthless. :P :shuriken:

Moreso, I tend to avoid the caves, and just play hell straight away.

[Sekel]

Hello Fragbait

I wanna say, that your question is basically unimportant because rogues are so uber-elite anyway. Why don't You use a cursed bow to make game more interesting ??? You must be a ..... ehm.....curious and right asking guy.

Nothing agains your Memo -> Memo to self: always consult JG first.
But reading JG with some testing (or testing with some reading :-) ) would give you much better answer.

Elemental bows can deal really huge amount of DMG. A little more then 8*YOUR_DMG per arrow for lightning bows. (if your target is non blocking monster/character without resistances) and DMG fire bows is even higher.
But there is BUT.

Example:
You have got 2 bows. Bow1 is Composite Bow of Thunder, Bow2 is plain composite bow. You enter 13 level and find there some Doom Guards. They are greate for testing. No lightning resist and all of them have got same Hit Points. (And your DMG is as constant as possible).
So you find Doom Guard, SC him and kill him with your Bow of Thunder.
Then again, again and again so you find, you need (say) 9 shots to kill them with elemental bow.
Now do this with plain Composite Bow and you find that you need.....Oh my God.... 9 shots to kill them !!!!

How is this possible ????

There is an answer:

* The actual fire and lightning damage will often not hit the same place as the arrow did, meaning one will often escape the extra high damage caused by fire and lightning bows. {blockable?}

Elemental DMG on bows simply is not so friendly as that one on melee weapons. If you dont know "rules" when it occur and how to use it, then there is very big probalility you will not harm only enemy with it.
But even if you have some knowledge about it, you will not be able "use it properly" for most of yours arrows.

So I agree with Nystul.
Extra mana, life, AC, (stable)DMG and magic ToHit from 'of Heavens' is better then occasionals "one monster arrows" from elemental bow.

BTW: Merciles LWB of Thunder/Burning are buyable in Wirt shop.

[the Langolier]

So let me get this straight:

Assume character dmg of 100, bow dmg of 1-10, +100% modifier and 2-20 burning suffix.

Average arrow dmg will be: 100 + (1-10)x2 = 111

Now, if I understood, the fire dmg will be modified by the +% dmg mod AND inlcude character dmg?

So: Average fire dmg = 9x [100+(2-20)x2] = 1098 fire dmg (resistable)

Total: 1209

Therefore, an average hit on a Blood Knight in hell would be: 386 damage
Average dmg on Hell diff Hellspawn: 323 (more dmg @ faster rate than warrior)


Course, that is when elemental hits, which isn't often. There are, however, positions or situations that will always result in a hit with elemental damage. One such placement is when there is an enemy directly to your rogues' south (bottom left of screen) and is walking away from you. Witches are obvious candidites. If you teleport right to their north and fire as they walk away from you, they will always get hit with the elemental dmg.

It's clearly a bug, which is interesting, because the fact that it doesn't deal damage how it is supposed to is offset by the fact that it doesn't hit as its supposed to either. Hmpf.

EDIT: Oops, burning is 1-16. Oh well, you get the idea