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A tidbit for the Germans in here
11-30-2005, 07:26 PM
Post: #1
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Greetings!

I'm currently working on a little project of mine, which I don't want to elaborate on right now. To my question:
Classes in Diablo are relatively easy to translate into German:

Warrior => Krieger.
Sorcerer => Zauberer (just seems more appropriate than Hexer).

But what about the...

Rogue => ???

It seems that, if translated literally, rogue means something along the lines of:
Schurke, Schalk, Schlingel; or, in another meaning: Landstreicher, Strauchdieb.

Now we know that in the Diablo™ story, rogues are archers from the order 'sisters of the sightless eye' (compare Diablo, Diablo II). How is that to be incorporated into the translation?
My best guess until I concerned myself with the word was: Bogenschützin, simply because that's what she does best (normally).
What I'm leaning towards at the moment is: Jägerin. That would come close to the translation I've heard in Diablo II, but yet we are speaking of Diablo classic.

I'm curious about your ideas.
It just occured to me that this might be adequate for the lounge also. Hm - maybe I'll post it there, too, in case this one doesn't return enough answers.


Greetings, Fragbait

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
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11-30-2005, 08:35 PM
Post: #2
A tidbit for the Germans in here
I think Jägerin is the most appropriate name as well.


The problem with translating the word "Rogue" literally which would yield something like "Schurk" or "Schlingel" is that all these words are considered mild insults and always means criminal or untrustworthy no-good person. "Rogue" used to mean the same back in the days where it was actually in use. But as most archaic words it is now used very inaccurately.

"Landstreicher" and "Strauchdieb" would translate more accurately into "higwayman" and "burglar". Neither of which are especially useful in this circumstance.

"Bogenschützin" would also be bad. Even though the rogue is undeniably optimized towards archery, she is also quite capable as a sword and shield warrior or even a sort of mage. She was clearly intended to be a jack-of-all-trades and not just a ranged warrior.

That leads to "Jägerin" which I think is the best idea.

"Jäger" meaning "hunter" has two connotations. Firstly it is a hunter. One who hunts game, usually with some kind of ranged weapon (bows, hunting rilfes or shotguns).
Secondarily it can be a military rank. A "Jäger" is an elite infanterist trained at operating behind enemy lines alone or in small groups. What would be called a "Special Forces" or "Commando" in english.

Thus "Jägerin" fits almost perfectly.

It connotates an elite infanterist or special operative adept at infiltrating enemy held territory.
It bears the impression of a wanderer or "free bird" since hunters are wont to travel a lot and operate alone in the wilderness.
It connotates a ranged warrior.
It might an euphemism for an assassin a "hunter of men" and in the background story the rogues were often sent out to kill enemies of the faith.
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12-01-2005, 01:10 AM
Post: #3
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Little Faith,Nov 30 2005, 12:35 PM Wrote:Even though the rogue is undeniably optimized towards archery, she is also quite capable as a sword and shield warrior or even a sort of mage. She was clearly intended to be a jack-of-all-trades and not just a ranged warrior.
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I have no informed comments to make on German usage (I guess Sourceror would have something valuable to say were he still around), but regarding rogues, I think they were intended to be primarily archers with good secondary magical skills. This laudable intention --- one of which I'm sure the Sisters of the Sightless Eye would have entirely approved --- was slightly eviscerated by the ridiculously overpowered nature of spells in Diablo (especially fireball and chain lightning), and the fact that dex (presumably intended for archery), not strength, turned out to be far and away the most important attribute for melee (because of its effects on to-hit and blocking).
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12-01-2005, 11:23 AM
Post: #4
A tidbit for the Germans in here
yes jaegerin fits nice, but what project are you working on fragbait
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12-01-2005, 12:56 PM
Post: #5
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Fragbait,Nov 30 2005, 08:26 PM Wrote:But what about the...

Rogue => ???

One possibility would be to check the german version of Diablo II (is there one for D1?) and see what they call the rogues there.

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12-01-2005, 03:02 PM
Post: #6
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Fragbait,Nov 30 2005, 01:26 PM Wrote:Warrior => Krieger.
Sorcerer => Zauberer (just seems more appropriate than Hexer).

But what about the... Rogue => ???

It seems that, if translated literally, rogue means something along the lines of:
Schurke, Schalk, Schlingel; or, in another meaning: Landstreicher, Strauchdieb.

Now we know that in the Diablo™ story, rogues are archers from the order 'sisters of the sightless eye' (compare Diablo, Diablo II). How is that to be incorporated into the translation?
My best guess until I concerned myself with the word was: Bogenschützin, simply because that's what she does best (normally).
What I'm leaning towards at the moment is: Jägerin. That would come close to the translation I've heard in Diablo II, but yet we are speaking of Diablo classic.

I'm curious about your ideas.  It just occured to me that this might be adequate for the lounge also. Hm - maybe I'll post it there, too, in case this one doesn't return enough answers.

Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]96025[/snapback][/right]

While Jagerin isn't bad, an alternate way to look at the meaning of the word "rogue" in Diablo I is to consider the word "adventurer" or "adventuress." The use of "rogue" in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons was an attempt to split the Thief class into assassins, acrobats, sneak thiefs, and other "use my wits rather than my strength" adventurers. That root led to usage of "rogue" in the RPG and MMORPG and CRPC settings.

In that sense, a rogue is, in a subtle connotation in English, someone who skirts the edge of the law, and operates on the edges of the settled world in search of adventure and riches. A treasure hunter.

So, if you use

Adventurer
Adventuress
or
Treasure Hunter

as the base English word, I think you will find a better German equivalent that will capture the essence of the Rogue.

To deflate that discussion, the Blizzard North team seems to have used Rogue in a very unconventional sense as a label, to attract the RPG folks, when the description of the Sisters of the Sightless Eye made them far more like Bow Wielding Monks for D & D. (Per your initial point.)

Of course, they were played more like Treasure Hunters and Adventurers, and since that is how the play evolved by the players of the game, I think you would be on the soundest footing to use those three words to find the right German descriptive term.

I hope that helps.

Occhidiangela, the Rogue with a Heart :)

Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
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12-01-2005, 10:12 PM
Post: #7
A tidbit for the Germans in here
I posted your question on another forum where there are many Europeans and received this response.

Quote: What I'm leaning towards at the moment is: Jägerin. That would come close to the translation I've heard in Diablo II, but yet we are speaking of Diablo classic.

Do you know the answer?

Hmm "Jägerin" would be close as it means more like Ranger, but I tend to go towards the literal translation and that would have to be Schurke (SP?)

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12-01-2005, 10:15 PM
Post: #8
A tidbit for the Germans in here
*Waves at Occhidiangela and walks over to the post office with a package in a very "off topic" manner*



If someone doesn't understand this, too bad, sorry for the hi-jack :)

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12-01-2005, 11:13 PM
Post: #9
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Jarulf,Dec 1 2005, 04:15 PM Wrote:*Waves at Occhidiangela and walks over to the post office with a package in a very "off topic" manner*
If someone doesn't understand this, too bad, sorry for the hi-jack :)
[right][snapback]96094[/snapback][/right]

(OT continued)

Hooray! Your timing is impeccable.

*Wonders if Swedish meatballs travel well in the post*

And now, Carly Simon will sing for us; her big hit "Anticipation." :lol:

Occhi

Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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12-02-2005, 04:33 PM
Post: #10
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Here is another reply I received.
Quote:Well my German is not very good, but when I look the word up in a dictionary and see the alternatives, I'd go for 'Schalk', rather than 'Schurke' for instance. I base this on the Dutch words 'schalk' en 'schurk', which mean roughly the same, but for the fact that 'schurk' has a stronger connotation of criminality, while 'schalk' represents especially cunningness (next to some underworld connotation of course; that remains). This is why I'd go for 'Schalk': it has more of a rogue-feeling about it. If the division I just made does not at all apply to the German words, then of course you can forget all about this

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12-03-2005, 08:01 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2005 08:02 AM by Lord_Olf.)
Post: #11
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Hail Fragbait,

I'd agree that "Schurke" doesn't really fit, but neither does "Jägerin", I think. It reminds me too much of the profession "hunter".

You might consider to go for "Abenteurerin", which does not really have a nice ring to it, but would represent the flexibility of the character class well as a jack of all trades.
Alternatively, for more emphasis on bow-wielding, I could imagnine that "Waldläuferin" would fit well, though it does not do real justice to the other class skills. It also makes you think along the lines of "hunter" a little too much, but I would favor it over "Jägerin".

I'll be back if I come up with something else...

Take care,

Lord_Olf

Edit: Preview button is your friend...

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12-03-2005, 10:58 AM
Post: #12
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Greetings!


Thanks for your multiple replies, I appreciate them.
Among your suggestions, I like the 'Waldläuferin' - a not exactly too narrow translation of adventuress - the best. It reminds me of the 'profession' of Aragorn in the first LOTR movie, when he first meets the hobbits...

But - oh well. I ultimately found the manual to classic Diablo in German (turns out that I had it all of the time :rolleyes: ), and they translated 'rogue' with 'Jägerin'. So that's what I'm gonna do, since my project is...

***tamtamtam***

the translation of Jarulf's Guide 1.62 into German.

Now it's out. Jarulf already gave his blessing :) . It will take some more time, but I'm currently at 12 % of the whole document.

Thanks again for your input.

Greetings, Fragbait

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules

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12-03-2005, 09:51 PM
Post: #13
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Fragbait,Dec 3 2005, 04:58 AM Wrote:Greetings!
Thanks for your multiple replies, I appreciate them.
Among your suggestions, I like the 'Waldläuferin' - a not exactly too narrow translation of adventuress - the best. It reminds me of the 'profession' of Aragorn in the first LOTR movie, when he first meets the hobbits...

But - oh well. I ultimately found the manual to classic Diablo in German (turns out that I had it all of the time  :rolleyes: ), and they translated 'rogue' with 'Jägerin'. So that's what I'm gonna do, since my project is...

***tamtamtam***

the translation of Jarulf's Guide 1.62 into German.

Now it's out. Jarulf already gave his blessing  :) . It will take some more time, but I'm currently at 12 % of the whole document.

Thanks again for your input.

Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]96198[/snapback][/right]

Herzliche Grusten. I wish I could spell that correctly. Oh, and a nice British "Well Done!" to you, Fragbait.

Occhidiangela, Die Jagerin mit ein Herze

Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
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12-06-2005, 01:44 PM
Post: #14
A tidbit for the Germans in here
ll
to be honest, i never was able to finish translating the guide. the lack of using english and translate english was too big. i wish good luck with your project and please let me see the results of it by posting a link here when you got finshed
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12-07-2005, 10:18 AM
Post: #15
A tidbit for the Germans in here
danifilth,Dec 6 2005, 02:44 PM Wrote:by posting a link here when you got finshed
[right][snapback]96337[/snapback][/right]

Hi,

I've already entered into negotiations with a German site to host my guide. I have still got to check whether they comply with my requirements where morality and ethics are concerned, but when everything's alright, I'll post a link to it in my final post in this thread. Maybe in my signature, too. If a webmaster reads this and is interested in hosting it, just send me a personal message, and I'll check the content of your site and give you an answer.

I'm currently at 18%, but that's a little hard to judge since I've used MS Word's algorithm to replace a certain word with another word, for example warrior / Krieger in the whole document. Also the document's size will increase due to the German language, which is more laborious than English.

One more thing: I'm not going to translate the item names and prefixes/suffixes, because I feel that this might not amend the situation. People will want to look the specific item that they found up, so King's will be King's, Haste will be Haste and a Bastard Sword will remain a Bastard Sword ;) .

Greetings, Fragbait

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules

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12-07-2005, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2005 02:00 PM by Rudra.)
Post: #16
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Hi,
first of all, I would like to wish you persistence to finish your project.

Fragbait,Dec 7 2005, 11:18 AM Wrote:One more thing: I'm not going to translate the item names and prefixes/suffixes, because I feel that this might not amend the situation.

I do not think that it is appropriate to translate terms which are already in the game, like prefixes, suffixes, and also character names. You cannot distinguish anyway; translate some terms, but leave others in english. To my mind it does not make sense to translate those into uncommon "Krieger", "Jägerin"/"Waldläuferin" and "Zauberer", as long as you do not translate the game itself.
You do not want to do this, do you? The game is english entirely, so I think it is unnecessary and it would complicate the understanding if you translated fixed terms. Or does anybody talk about "Flammenwellen", "Wächter" or "Mischstäbe"? ;)
MfG Rudra
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12-08-2005, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2006 11:58 AM by Fragbait.)
Post: #17
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Rudra,Dec 7 2005, 02:58 PM Wrote:You cannot distinguish anyway; translate some terms, but leave others in english
[right][snapback]96432[/snapback][/right]

That's exactly what I'm gonna do, unfortunately. I will create what seems to me a 'good compromise'. That means that I am happy with the labeling and translating as it will be. This includes (a.t.m.) translating character classes (hence this topic), stats and magical effects of items
(e.g.
Quote:Harlequin Crest³ ||  Harlequin Crest  ||  4 000  ||  n/a  ||  Ja  ||  AC -3, +2 zu allen Attributen, +7 Mana, +7 Leben, -1 Schaden von Gegnern
- excerpt).

I might change some things a little bit, though. I'm only at 20% of the document by now, you know.

EDIT: Yay, 25%! Date: 15.12.2005
EDITII: 27,6% Date: 11.01.2006

Greetings, Fragbait

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules

Post content property of Fragbait (member of the lurkerlounge). Do not (hesitate to) quote without permission.
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12-08-2005, 10:06 AM
Post: #18
A tidbit for the Germans in here
Occhidiangela,Dec 3 2005, 10:51 PM Wrote:Herzliche Grusten.  I wish I could spell that correctly.  [...]
Occhidiangela, Die Jagerin mit ein Herze
[right][snapback]96219[/snapback][/right]

:)
What you mean is: 'Herzliche Grüße!' which is indeed a correct translation, but sounds a bit like a complimentary close for a letter...
Also, correct would be 'die Jägerin mit Herz', which is a bit hard to guess as a translation for 'the rogue with a heart' when you're not a native speaker.

All told I don't think that your German is badly off. Just keep practising! To put it like Sarge, a Q3A-bot: "We'll make a soldier out of you yet, ",0, ".";
Wait - sensors are detecting an unintended pun here... :lol:


Greetings, Fragbait

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules

Post content property of Fragbait (member of the lurkerlounge). Do not (hesitate to) quote without permission.
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