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Star Trick.
Lasers are in the news, some going places and some not. The Silver Bullet Crowd looks to be losing the 747 based Laser, due to cost 5 billion between now and 2009 and still not fielded. White House asked DoD to cut it.
About time. Some "bright ideas" are just bad.
"We will hit the Ballistic Missiles in boost phase (measured in seconds) with a long range laser beam mounted on a 747." Right, lasers can ignore simple physics and be used regardless of the weather/environment. (No, they can't) That Silver Bullet foolishness has been getting money for over 10 years. :angry: The Emperor's nudity is at last exposed, or no longer indulged. Huzzah.
In the kinder, gentler world of "non lethal weapons" the Air Force are trying to make Gene Rodenberry's fiction a reality. We already have communicators, cell phones with speaker phone capability, and now apparently a Phaser.
Security Guard A: "Set Phaser's to stun!"
Security Guard B: "Oh crap, he's wearing sun glasses!"
Security Guard A: "Get out the Colt Python . . . "
Security Guard B: "He's buggered off!"
Bravely bold Intruder, ran off to try again
He was wearing Ray Ban LEPs
Sty-lish Intruder!
He was not in the least bit scared
To be filled with hot, hot lead
Bold Bold Brave Brave Intruder . . .
"Curioser and curioser," said Alice.
Quote:New York Daily News December 1, 2005
Capt. Kirk Might Beam At Gun
U.S. adds hi-tech dazzler
By Derek Rose, Daily News Staff Writer
Air Force researchers have developed a nonlethal laser ray gun that sounds like something straight out of Capt. Kirk's arsenal.
Dubbed the PHaSR - for Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response - the rifle-sized weapon temporarily "dazzles" its target with a bright beam of light.
"We picked the PHaSR name to help sell the program," admitted program manager Capt. Thomas Wegner of the Air Force Research Laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate. "It's an obvious homage to 'Star Trek.' "
In that sci-fi series, the crew of the starship Enterprise, including Capt. James T. Kirk, carried hand-held phaser weapons that could vaporize or stun an opponent.
All these phasers can do is disorient a subject.
"It's like shining a flashlight in your eyes," Wegner said. "Or when you wake up in the morning, and the eyes have to adjust to the light. It's the same sensation."
The PHaSR could be used for checkpoint control, or by civilian law enforcement, officials said. The National Institute of Justice has provided a $250,000 grant.
"This is truly a nonlethal weapon," Wegner said. "Pepper spray is considered nonlethal, but you can die from pepper spray. This is truly nonlethal, and nonpermanent."
Military lawyers are reviewing the weapon to ensure it complies with the Geneva Convention, which forbids using laser weapons that cause "permanent blindness."
"This does not blind you," Wegner said. "To me, blinding is permanent. We dazzle, and that is temporary." The effect fades within seconds after the laser is removed, he said.
Other laser systems have been developed before, including the rifle-mounted Sabre 203 system, which had a range of up to 300 yards. A Sabre 203 was taken into Somalia - but not used - when Marines entered in 1995. But the Sabre was scrapped over concerns it could cause permanent blindness.
If a decision is made to go forward with the project, the ray guns could be in the hands of soldiers and cops within three to five years, Wegner said.
And what would Capt. Kirk think of the PHaSR?
"He would think it's rather primitive," Wegner said. "But for us, it's pretty high tech."
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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I saw that on FARK.
And yes, it is easily defeated, by simply closing your eyes or wearing Ray Bananas.
In some people, they cause epileptic seizures, which is a real bonus. Now that's stunning.
I have an interesting stun weapon I picked up from an Mil-Surp auction. Beanbag filled shotgun shells. Non lethal, at least that is what the paper says. Occhi, know anything about these?
I would very much like to find a brave soul to stand in front of my gun while I shoot them.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Doc,Dec 1 2005, 09:01 AM Wrote:I have an interesting stun weapon I picked up from an Mil-Surp auction. Beanbag filled shotgun shells. Non lethal, at least that is what the paper says. Occhi, know anything about these?
I would very much like to find a brave soul to stand in front of my gun while I shoot them.
[right][snapback]96071[/snapback][/right]
1. Not aware of the bean bag shotgun dingus.
2. I do not volunteer to stand in front of your shotgun, 1/2Mv^2 is 1/2Mv^2.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,269
Threads: 82
Joined: Feb 2003
Strip away all the rather churlish Star Trek comparisons that I feel are rather unnecessary in that article, and what we're left with is a pretty effective non-lethal method of gaining compliance of suspects. The only reason it seems ridiculous is because the author decided "Hey, let's throw in a few Trekkie references in and make it seem like a big joke." Perhaps they shouldn't have lumbered it with the unfortunate name of the PHaSR just to sell the idea, but the writer does seem to take the comparison to the ludicrous.
Sunglasses won't mean squat against a bright enough burst of light, I have a feeling that the designers considered this.
As for its use, consider the alternatives in non-lethal takedowns - CS gas, pepper spray, tasers, flashbangs, whatever. All have their drawbacks, some can be even fatal to the subject or detrimental to anyone caught in collateral distance. Granted, there are drawbacks with this system, but I can't see anyone receiving a fatal allergic reaction to this and choking like they would with pepper spray.
When in mortal danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.
BattleTag: Schrau#2386
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Doc,Dec 1 2005, 10:01 AM Wrote:I have an interesting stun weapon I picked up from an Mil-Surp auction. Beanbag filled shotgun shells. Non lethal, at least that is what the paper says. Occhi, know anything about these?
I would very much like to find a brave soul to stand in front of my gun while I shoot them.
[right][snapback]96071[/snapback][/right]
They were experimental when I was in the Corps and hurt like hell when you get hit by them. Aimed properly the subject is knocked down and winded. Aimed lower and you could put a guy on the ground for awhile. ;) The modern ones might be gentler. :)
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Occhidiangela,Dec 1 2005, 09:20 AM Wrote:"It's like shining a flashlight in your eyes," Wegner said. [of the rifle-sized weapon]
[right][snapback]96070[/snapback][/right]
Did anyone consider just shining a flashlight in the guy's eyes instead?
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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gekko,Dec 1 2005, 02:22 PM Wrote:Did anyone consider just shining a flashlight in the guy's eyes instead?
gekko
[right][snapback]96082[/snapback][/right]
Done that - did little to stop the guy drawing his weapon. Luckily for me there was three guys with me who had already drawn a bead on him. ;)
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Doc,Dec 1 2005, 03:01 PM Wrote:I have an interesting stun weapon I picked up from an Mil-Surp auction. Beanbag filled shotgun shells. Non lethal, at least that is what the paper says. Occhi, know anything about these?
I would very much like to find a brave soul to stand in front of my gun while I shoot them.
[right][snapback]96071[/snapback][/right]
Bean bag rounds can be lethal if they hit you in the wrong place-like the head. They can also probably break bones under the right circumstances.
Personally if my shotgun comes out in a home defense situation, it's going to be used as a lethal weapon.
Back to lurk mode now.
W<
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Er, if I need home defense I have all kinds of goodies for that.
What I want is non lethal ammo for one special night out of the year where people are prone to make jackasses out of themselves. I have shotgun shells filled with rocksalt for this purpose.
The beanbag shells seemed like a good idea, and there was 1200+ rounds for 14 dollars, and it seemed like a good deal. Also picked some other good hardware, including some fill-em-yerself grenade shells. A whole gross of those. I have an oil drum full of ball bearings, primers, everything I need to have a real good time.
So Tal, you have seen them in action? Work pretty good eh? If some kids is out doing things to the livestock that they shouldn't be doing, this wont kill them or scar them for life, just hurt like hell when I shoot them in the ass? And I would shoot them in the ass. I would either sneak up on them from behind, or wait till they was running away. Either way, somebody is getting shot in the ass.
You know, I could try them out early the next time those pesky Jehova's Witnesses break the law by hopping the gate and try to knock on my door... There is no blood loss, and they of all people should be able to appreciate my kind and careful consideration, seeing as how they don't allow blood transfusions.
For some reason, the religious door to door types see all those signs as a challenge, rather than a warning. Mayhap they think us weird withdrawn hermit types really need the company.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Dec 1 2005, 03:34 PM Wrote:So Tal, you have seen them in action? Work pretty good eh? If some kids is out doing things to the livestock that they shouldn't be doing, this wont kill them or scar them for life, just hurt like hell when I shoot them in the ass? And I would shoot them in the ass. I would either sneak up on them from behind, or wait till they was running away. Either way, somebody is getting shot in the ass.
[right][snapback]96089[/snapback][/right]
Well keep in mind that its been over a decade since I both fired one and was hit by one. At the time I was pretty bruised and dazed from the hit despite wearing body armor. Took the wind right outta my sails. I really can't speak for the effectiveness of the new ones but will talk to a couple of cop buddies and see what they think.
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Johnny Knoxville got shot by a bean-bag shotgun for one of the stunts in Jackass: The Movie. It looked damn painful - it gave him a *real* ugly welt and basically put him out of commission for a week apparently.
Google Video and Image searches proved to be fruitless unfortunately.
Technically, those bean-bag shotguns aren't non-lethal, they're still qualified as "less lethal".
--Mith
I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.
Jack London
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Mithrandir,Dec 1 2005, 05:05 PM Wrote:Johnny Knoxville got shot by a bean-bag shotgun for one of the stunts in Jackass: The Movie. It looked damn painful - it gave him a *real* ugly welt and basically put him out of commission for a week apparently.
Google Video and Image searches proved to be fruitless unfortunately.
Technically, those bean-bag shotguns aren't non-lethal, they're still qualified as "less lethal".
[right][snapback]96098[/snapback][/right]
A pity they didn't use a deer slug on that jackass. Oh well, with luck another opportunity will arise.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:"This does not blind you," Wegner said. "To me, blinding is permanent. We dazzle, and that is temporary."
And all that money will be for naught when the enemy learns the all powerful defensive move of "Jazz Hands."
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I'll stick to good, old-fashioned mace...
...and if that doesn't work, then time to break out the horsemans' axe.
Of course, when is the Air Force ever going to release specs and designs from all those zat'n'ktels (pronounced "zat'n'ktels") they've captured over the years? Better yet, what about intars (which are obviously convertible to operate with Tau'ri projectile weaponry)?
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
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