Chronicles of Narnia

[martini]

I too hate to see good stories butchered by film, but I do like to see a faithful interpretation transformed to different media. [snip] Anyway, there are no sacred cows when it comes to Disney or Hollywood profits.  Just be happy it is not another Pocahontas-ized animated Disney "classic", but rather a dignified re-telling which is faithful to the story C.S. Lewis penned.
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I tend to not have any desire to see a great book made into a movie of any stripe. Why would I - I already have the book! No matter how great the movie, something is always lost in the translation to film. Even the best translations, like the 6-hour BBC version of Pride and Prejudice lose a little something along the way.

I especially don't want to overwrite my childhood memories with Hollywood snapshots. That's why I have never seen the LotR movies (and hopefully never will), and why I'll be similarly avoiding this movie as well. Once you allow a picture into your head, you can never get it out. I prefer the pictures that my mind has painted to any that Hollywood can devise.

[whyBish]

One little detail I am pissed off about.

Disney gave the White Witch dreadlocks.

Thanks a lot you bastards. As if people with dreadlocks didn't have enough problems with ignorant stereotypes already. Now you get it in to little kid's heads that people with locks are somehow evil and shouldn't be trusted.

Why, WHY do people with locks in movies always have some sort of negative light shed on them? Whisky Tango Foxtrox is up with that? Really... Why do the people with locks always have to be the bad guys, or the people you shouldn't trust, or the people that you should always be afraid of? You just look at them in a movie and think "Oh hey, that must be the bad guy! Just look at his hair!"

SCREW YOU HOLLYWOOD.
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Once again I point you to the most respected person in this country:
Most respected man in NZ

..funny... he seems to have dreads... or am I seeing things again

Ignore hollywood, and come join the real world :P (... well, except for the fact that Narnia was filmed over here, and produced by a NZer :/ )

P.S. All of the reviews I've heard so far say that Narnia is crap, and only the white witch and Lucy are any good as actors, but the whole thing is unbelievable... e.g. first step through the wardrobe and no shiver when touching the snow etc.)

[Rhydderch Hael]

I tend to not have any desire to see a great book made into a movie of any stripe. Why would I - I already have the book! No matter how great the movie, something is always lost in the translation to film. Even the best translations, like the 6-hour BBC version of Pride and Prejudice lose a little something along the way...
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What is "lost" in a movie adapatation is that fact that nothing's missing when it's put to film...

...that is the problem. Nicholas Meyer put it this way: art is supposed to be incomplete— it should be missing some element. Paintings do not move. Music does not have scenery. Yet a painting conveys motion. Music suggests imagery. The "missing" element isn't absent: it's simply filled in by the viewer or listener. They supply the missing element, and involve themselves in the art piece as a result.

You're not supposed to have everything served to you. That quashes the audience involvement, robs them of the investment they must make in order to fully comprehend. Movies tend to commit this very crime: they display the director's scope of imagination at the expense of denying that of the audience's.

[Occhidiangela]

Once again I point you to the most respected person in this country:
Most respected man in NZ

..funny... he seems to have dreads... or am I seeing things again

P.S.  All of the reviews I've heard so far say that Narnia is crap, and only the white witch and Lucy are any good as actors, but the whole thing is unbelievable... e.g. first step through the wardrobe and no shiver when touching the snow etc.)
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Did you read the books? As to the unbelievable, it is a fantasy story. The unreal is commonplace in such stories.

Sorry to see the Captain of the All Blacks hang up the spikes. :(

Occhi

[Doc]

I reckon she is a rather wicked looking witch.

Remember kiddies, evil wicked people are easy to spot. They never comb their hair. If they are not responsable enough to pick up a comb now and then, they obviously shouldn't be trusted.

:lol:

[NiteFox]

I must be evil then.

That said, combing my hair has absolutely no effect when its dry. It just naturally springs back into place within five seconds.

Or it could be that I am evil. Buah.

[Munkay]

I reckon she is a rather wicked looking witch.

Remember kiddies, evil wicked people are easy to spot. They never comb their hair. If they are not responsable enough to pick up a comb now and then, they obviously shouldn't be trusted.

:lol:

In all fairness Doc, evil is presented in both the 'feral' and the 'civilized' views. There are plenty of examples of the Devil (or evil characters) being extremely civilized.

Look at Al Pacino in The Devil's Advocate,


The Devil in End of Days,


Or perhaps the best example is Christian Bale in American Psycho.


And even in Children's stories the evil character is sometimes 'civilized', take Cinderella's evil stepmother for example.
(Sadly I could not find a good image)

Cheers,

Munk

[Drasca]

I reckon she is a rather wicked looking witch.
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Really? When looking at those pictures, all I could think was: If I could only date a girl like that :wub:

Swords, hair, living all naturale. Ice crown and castle... Both fierce and quietly observant moods... I bet she can appreciate a good beer too :blush:

I bet there'll be at least a few viewers who want to woo her or be her.

yes yes, I know you're mocking the evil jig... but I can't help swooning with the pictures you've chosen

[kandrathe]

Some people complained about the EVIL person being female.

Some people complained about the EVIL person being albino like.

The Roar Over C.S. Lewis's Otherworldly Lion

Tilda's take on her wardrobe and the character.

" . . . it’s as if she just covers herself up in a bit of Narnia. So the dress is made out of a substance that’s a little bit like the bottom of an amazing waterfall I saw in the middle of New Zealand. So it’s like the White Witch is made of water or ice, or smoke, or, something natural. And being the epitome of, of all evil, of course, and this comes very strongly from the book, she’s covered in fur. And she has hair that doesn’t look like hair, it looks like it’s come from the ground - maybe it’s roots or something. And her crown is made of ice, and it melts throughout the film, so it’s not going to look like a costume that she got out of a wardrobe anywhere. It’s like she just whipped it up out of somewhere. And I wish that it were really a computer generated costume [laughs] ’cause it was really difficult to wear!"

(Tilda Swinton from the
New Straits Times interview)

I think the hair design was to be more feral, like roots, or smoke.

[Doc]

Really? When looking at those pictures, all I could think was: If I could only date a girl like that  :wub:

Swords, hair, living all naturale. Ice crown and castle... Both fierce and quietly observant moods... I bet she can appreciate a good beer too  :blush:

I bet there'll be at least a few viewers who want to woo her or be her.

yes yes, I know you're mocking the evil jig... but I can't help swooning with the pictures you've chosen
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Ah, my poor lovestruck friend...

She is the White Witch.

She is frigid.

You would get nothing, nothing at all.

Edit.

My wife looks HAWT since she let her hair lock up and has gone makeup free. She has many long pencil thin locks that curl and wiggle and stick out in all directions. For most of the summer, she has been going around wearing a crown of wildflowers woven in to her hair. She is really a radiant creature now, her true inner beauty has finally been released. She has taken to wearing long loose flowing skirts... Either patched ragwork quilted skirts like she has been wearing though the fall, or long loose tye dyed gauzy skirts that flutter in the summer breezes. She looks like a nymph.

My wife does not look tame. She frightens people out in public almost as much as I do now.

[Occhidiangela]

Some people complained about the EVIL person being female.

Some people complained about the EVIL person being albino like.

The Roar Over C.S. Lewis's Otherworldly Lion

Tilda's take on her wardrobe and the character.
I think the hair design was to be more feral, like roots, or smoke.
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From the article:

"Or not. Philip Pullman, author of the "His Dark Materials" trilogy of children's fantasies, describes "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" as "a peevish blend of racist, misogynistic and reactionary prejudice."

There is the pot calling the kettle black, and a hack at that. "His dark materials" was a loosely compiled load of anti Christian diatribes loosely wrapped around a rather clunky plotline.

I read good reviews of the tales, read them, and wondered what book the reviewers had read.

Glad I only paid full price for one volume, and got the other two at half price books.

Occhi

[kandrathe]

...
And as far as caucasians with locks, white folk have a long rich history that most seem to ignore with locks. Saying they can't have locks is rather ignorant and slightly racist. Some do, but they seem to forget what goes along with locks, wearing them as a fashion statement.
...

Locks are a powerful religious and social statement.
...

So tell me, what is wrong exactly with white folks having locks? So long as they are doing it to embrace their own history, their own culture, their own roots, and not trying to be something they are not, and believe me, I see a lot of folks that get them for all the wrong reasons, what is wrong with having them?
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There is a difference between people fighting for the rights of everyone to express themselves culturally, and appropriating a culture thinking it is in support of it.

Mostly, I see alot of appropriating cultures and in the case of dreadlocks its reached the point of cultural absorption. It's just sad. Like Vanilla Ice sad.

[Doc]

There is a difference between people fighting for the rights of everyone to express themselves culturally, and appropriating a culture thinking it is in support of it. 

Mostly, I see alot of appropriating cultures and in the case of dreadlocks its reached the point of cultural absorption.  It's just sad.  Like Vanilla Ice sad.
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I agree. And it bothers me. White kids at the mall with Lee Press On Locks trying to act, well, sorry for sounding racist, but trying to act black. They have no idea that white culture also has a deep rich history with locks. Instead, they look like retards or Rasta-impastafarians. And don't even get me started on the stupid white kids smoking weed and thinking they are Rastas. Bother. Or for that matter, stupid black kids with locks thinking they are Rastas as they chow down on a bacon cheese burger from some nasty fast food place. That's just bloody wrong. They need to STFU and find out what a bowl of mushy peas and rice taste like. And learn what Rasta-Kosher foods are. Sure as hell wouldn't be eating no pork. Eat more veggies and the tiny fish from the sea that don't eat no other fish. Nothing that eats filth. Nothing that eats flesh.

Cultural appropriation is a very real pain in my ass. And no, I am not a Rasta. There has been a real explosion of locks lately where I live. For the longest time, it was not exactly safe to wear locks in redneck central. Doing so was a powerful statement. It used to mean something. Now, there are a bunch of kids doing it. I thought I would be happy seeing more locks on people where I live, that people were becoming open minded and that the world around me was becoming a better place. But no. I am not happy at all with some idiot white kid that has dreadlocks, with his pants around his knees, looking like his drawers are full of #$%&, his cap on backwards, wearing gaudy gold jewelry, and a wife beater tank top saying "whassup nigga."

I would very much like to smack the smug slack jawed looks off of their faces. I am an equal opportunity old fart too... I would gladly smack them no matter their race and tell them to show some respect for themselves.

Humbug.

[Occhidiangela]

I agree. And it bothers me. White kids at the mall with Lee Press On Locks trying to act, well, sorry for sounding racist, but trying to act black. They have no idea that white culture also has a deep rich history with locks. Instead, they look like retards or Rasta-impastafarians. And don't even get me started on the stupid white kids smoking weed and thinking they are Rastas. Bother. Or for that matter, stupid black kids with locks thinking they are Rastas as they chow down on a bacon cheese burger from some nasty fast food place. That's just bloody wrong. They need to STFU and find out what a bowl of mushy peas and rice taste like. And learn what Rasta-Kosher foods are. Sure as hell wouldn't be eating no pork. Eat more veggies and the tiny fish from the sea that don't eat no other fish. Nothing that eats filth. Nothing that eats flesh.

Cultural appropriation is a very real pain in my ass. And no, I am not a Rasta. There has been a real explosion of locks lately where I live. For the longest time, it was not exactly safe to wear locks in redneck central. Doing so was a powerful statement. It used to mean something. Now, there are a bunch of kids doing it. I thought I would be happy seeing more locks on people where I live, that people were becoming open minded and that the world around me was becoming a better place. But no. I am not happy at all with some idiot white kid that has dreadlocks, with his pants around his knees, looking like his drawers are full of #$%&, his cap on backwards, wearing gaudy gold jewelry, and a wife beater tank top saying "whassup nigga."

I would very much like to smack the smug slack jawed looks off of their faces. I am an equal opportunity old fart too... I would gladly smack them no matter their race and tell them to show some respect for themselves.

Humbug.
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I have to laugh out loud at protestations of anyone trying to claim ownership of so called "culture." How is it that culture does not evoleve and grow, for better and worse, like any other social organism? Static cultures dies. Some cultures catch cultural diseases and die. And so it goes, per Ellerby's show title.

Me, I find cultural entropy to be painful, but I also find air pollution to be a damned shame.

Build a bridge and get over it.

PS: saw the movie, enjoyed it, and remembered why the book is children's literature. Salon had a great article recently about the disputes between Tolkein and Lewis in re their literary worlds, and Tolkein's dissapointment in Lewis fusing such disparate mythological symbols.

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/12...wis/index2.html

Worth a read.

Occhi

[Fragbait]

Hi,

I felt like I ought to say this:

I was disappointed. Never having read the book, I went into the movie quite forthright and unbiased, I think. Maybe that was a mistake.

The story is nice, but every major element of suspence is entirely predictable. I won't go into detail and include spoilers, but the impression that is continually created is the following:
"Wow. I predicted this 10 minutes ago already."
The movie is full of pathos and protracts several times. The following dialogue (not original) may reflect the essence of the film:

"Gee - Lucie!"
"Jesus - Edmond!"
"Why - Susan!"
"Ohmygod - Peter!"
"Hell - everybody!"
"We're still alive!"
"Yes, we are!"
"Aslan saved us!"
"He saved everybody!"
"Gee - Lucie!"
"Jesus - Edmond!"
"Why - Susan!"
"Ohmygod - Peter!"


Note the exclamation mark in each and every statement. :wacko: This dialogue is of course fictional, but should give you an impression. One thing, though: I liked the beaver. ;)

Only do go into the movie if you're

a] a huge fan of this universe;

b] going with your kids.



Greetings, Fragbait

[Doc]

I wont be going today.

Some idiot weather forecaster said "snow" last night on the news. A very, very small chance.

Everything was called off for safety purposes till the forecast is free of the dreaded "snow".

It is sunny outside. And quite nice.

**Seethes**

[ShadowHM]

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/12...wis/index2.html

Worth a read.

Occhi
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Thanks Occhi !

This particularly intrigued me:

"The Screwtape Letters," in which a senior demon advises his infernal student on how to achieve a human's downfall, was published in 1942 (with a dedication to Tolkien) and has apparently never been out of print since. This is all to the good, since "Screwtape" contains some of Lewis' most waspishly elegant writing. (Some years ago there was an audiobook version, narrated by John Cleese, that needs to be reissued immediately.)

I want that John Cleese version ! The Screwtape Letters are wonderful, and I cannot imagine a better voice than Cleese's for listening to it. :wub:

I also have to agree with the author's assessment of the Space Trilogy. Out of the Silent Planet was a fine book, but the second two were far less compelling.

[Minionman]

I wont be going today.

Some idiot weather forecaster said "snow" last night on the news. A very, very small chance.

Everything was called off for safety purposes till the forecast is free of the dreaded "snow".

It is sunny outside. And quite nice.

**Seethes**
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I'm guessing if there had been snow, it would be a light sprinkling that covers maybe half the ground below it.

[kandrathe]

I tend to not have any desire to see a great book made into a movie of any stripe. Why would I - I already have the book! No matter how great the movie, something is always lost in the translation to film. Even the best translations, like the 6-hour BBC version of Pride and Prejudice lose a little something along the way.

I especially don't want to overwrite my childhood memories with Hollywood snapshots. That's why I have never seen the LotR movies (and hopefully never will), and why I'll be similarly avoiding this movie as well. Once you allow a picture into your head, you can never get it out. I prefer the pictures that my mind has painted to any that Hollywood can devise.
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On the contrary, I am able to segregate, and evaluate each instance of artistic expression distinctly. The original story, and then even multiple portrayals of that story in theatre, dance or film.

I always prefer to reading the story before seeing it interpreted to film for the very reason that I do not want my impression of the story to be the film, but rather I would like to absorb the original source. I think this way then you are careful not to allow the film to become Cliff's notes of the story. Now, (un)fortunately I sometimes find out later than that great movie I saw has an even greater original story which the movie has led me into.

My first exposure to "The Hobbit" was as a high school play my older sister was acting in. I was confused, but it did not rob me of any enjoyment when I sat down later and read the book. I've read The Chronicles of Narnia, viewed many images inspired by the book, seen the TV version of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, and now seen the latest movie. Each is a celebration of its own media, with a great story.

The Nibelungenlied was a good epic poem, but in my opinion, it is a better as Wagner's opera Der Ring des Nibelungen. Even the Uli Edel made for TV movie version is a "good" presentation of the story. Some people would prefer the TV version, or even Fritz Lang's films to the opera, or the middle high German poem translated.

I appreciate music, painting, sculpture, theatre, dance, and all facets of the arts. Why deny oneself the appreciation of all the nuances of artisticness in film? I see film as a symphony of arts, rather than a solo or quartet. A good story, good acting, good directing, good cinematography, good artistry in many forms culminating in a good film. Tolkien, or Lewis still get credit for the artistic expression of the story, which we might choose to re-read and imagine ourselves, or be swept away within anothers impression of the story in theatre, opera, dance, or film.

Once I see the original rendition of an artistic expression, should I shun any other version as a it might distort my original impression? Would I do that with other arts, like painting, or music? If Mona Lisa were described in a poem, would I shun the painting for fear it might change my original mental impression?

[Doc]

I am going tomorrow come hell or high water.

I made some phone calls. Made it very clear that I will not be told "no" again and that there would be consequences for failure.

Make it happen... Three simple little words, how can people screw it up?