Shouldnt Bush be impeached for spying on US citize

[Guest]

nm

[Guest]

Edited.  Roland crossed the line, you responded in kind.
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Griz - For once I wish you had left other guys attack up. Nothing I could say could ever match him "owning" himself.

[Zarathustra]

edited

Nevermind. Not worth stepping into this one.

[Occhidiangela]

edited
Nevermind.  Not worth stepping into this one.
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Rats. You usually have something good to say when you break lurk mode.

Care to reconsider? :blink:

Occhi

[Roland]

Griz - For once I wish you had left other guys attack up. Nothing I could say could ever match him "owning" himself.
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I freely admit I completely and utterly screwed up, and made a total ass of myself. Give a fool enough rope, and all that. *shrug* Just goes to show how much of that media frenzy I followed. Truth be told, I don't even remember anything past the mentioning of the "Stars report", or whatever the hell it was. I just plain tuned out.

And here it comes back to bite me in the rear, by my own mouth no less! Ah well, teach me to get snappy when I shouldn't, eh?

[Roland]

Now that was a good example for a shot into the own foot.

:mellow:

Greetings, Fragbait
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See, that's what you get for posting at 2 in the morning after a rought night fighting with the g/f. You cross a line you shouldn't have, and normally wouldn't, AND you make a complete fool out of yourself.

I picked a bad time and place to vent, and it cost me. I take my licks. And of course NOW I remember that, yes, as someone quoted in this thread, Clinton was the 2nd President to be impeached. I do remember that now, after 20 minutes trying to jog my brain into remembering. Honestly, you're out of school for long enough and the whole process of memorization seems to just fade right along with it. Maybe I need to do some mental Pilate's? ;)

[TaMeOlta]

Rats.  You usually have something good to say when you break lurk mode.

Care to reconsider?  :blink:

Occhi
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G.W. and THE FOUR GHOSTS

One night, George W. Bush is tossing restlessly
in his White House bed. He awakens to see George
Washington standing by him.

Bush asks him, "George, what's the best thing I
can do to help the country?" "Set an honest and
honorable example, just as I did," Washington
advises, and then fades away.

The next night, Bush is astir again, and sees the
ghost of Thomas Jefferson moving through the
darkened bedroom.

Bush calls out, "Tom, please! What is the best
thing I can do to help the country?" "Respect the
Constitution, as I did," Jefferson advises, and
dims from sight.

The third night sleep is still not in the cards for
Bush. He awakens to see the ghost of FDR hovering
over his bed. Bush whispers, "Franklin, What
is the best thing I can do to help the country?"
"Help the less fortunate, just as I did," FDR replies
and fades into the mist.

Bush isn't sleeping well the fourth night when he
sees another figure moving in the shadows. It is the
ghost of Abraham Lincoln. Bush pleads, "Abe, what's
the best thing I can do right now to help the country?"
Lincoln replies, "Go see a play."

:lol:

[Minionman]

If we don't consider Lincoln the greatest president, though, what does Illinois do for its liscense plates?

[Doc]

Etu Rove?

[Zarathustra]

Rats.  You usually have something good to say when you break lurk mode.

Care to reconsider?  :blink:

Occhi
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Occhi, my esteemed fellow oldschool Lurker, I'm going to have to pass. I had a bit to say on this, starting with a question over why perjury was considered a "laughable crime" by Ghostiger. Then I read over it all, opened up the thread in its entirety in another window, and realized the discussion was not going to go anywhere.

The majority of my posts as of late have been in the WoW boards while I maintain Lurk mode in the general. (But oh yes... I see EVERYTHING that goes on in here... mwa ha ha ha ha...) After reading over it all, I just don't care to stoke the flames.

*tips his hat*
*re-lurks*

[eppie]

One night, George W. Bush is tossing restlessly
in his White House bed.
:lol:
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Any british Lurkers around?
No seriously, I thought Bush was a good christian, they don't do these kind of things.

[Occhidiangela]

Any british Lurkers around?
No seriously, I thought Bush was a good christian, they don't do these kind of things.
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Ooooh, eppie, that was pure evil. :lol:

I imagine Laura would have a thing or two to say about that sort of thing, with a frown on her face, but since she isn't British, I don't think she'd understand the problem. :blink: Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

That would explain a few things . . . like why the Texas Rangers never won a pennant.

Occhi

[Doc]

Well great. Now this is going to be a thread about salad.

[Occhidiangela]

Well great. Now this is going to be a thread about salad.
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Or about Brain Salad Surgery.

(Two points for the ref!)

Occhi

[Chesspiece_face]

On a day not too much like any other for the President, Bush is riding in Air Force one chatting it up and laughing with Cheney and Rumsfield. Without warning all the systems fail and the plain crashes to the ground.

A little while later Bush wakes up looking into the beady little eyes of a man with red skin, horns, and a wicked little goatee. President Bush bellows "Oh lord, i've died and gone to hell!" to which the devil replies "sorry to say, yes you have."

Just then Bush realizes there are 3 doors behind the devil and asks what they are for. The devil says "Well here in Hell we like you to have choices. Behind one of these doors is where you will spend all eternity"

Bush approaches the first door and enters to see Rumsfield being whiped, waterlogged, and otherwise being beaten mercilessly. "Uhhh. No, i'll pass on that one"

The next room Bush finds Cheney straped to a table with his mouth clamped open with all the worlds oil pouring down this throat. "No. NO. I don't like that at all."

Finally Bush opens the third door to find President Clinton strapped to a bed with Monica Lewinsky doing what she does best. "YES! YES i'll take this room" Screams Bush.

The devil says "Ok Monica, you're out"

[Ashock]

Finally Bush opens the third door to find President Clinton strapped to a bed with Monica Lewinsky doing what she does best.  "YES!  YES i'll take this room" Screams Bush.

The devil says "Ok Monica, you're out"
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So, what you're saying is that Clinton is gay or at least bi, right?


-A

[Occhidiangela]

So, what you're saying is that Clinton is gay or at least bi, right?
-A
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I was under the impression he was from the Arkansan "anything that moves" school of lechery. I may be mistaken, that might be the Prime Directive of his native cuisine.

Occhi

[Lissa]

Today's paper pointed out that there was a 1978 law that set up a court, or board, through which security sensitive warrants/taps could be vetted. I am going to look into more on that topic before I comment on that piece, but I see two problems.

Justice/FBI have been stovepiped vis a vis Intelligence for years.  Look at the 9-11 commission report, for what it is worth, and the Able Danger issue still in work for how that left significant cracks in the security wall.

The last 30 years have significantly changed, security wise, with the Information Age.  Legislation and policy, IMO, have not caught up.  Getting the policies changed is hard, as most people are clueless on how war, information war, is waged and fought.  But doint that hard job is exactly the President's and the Congress' job.  I don't think the Patriot Act covers the NSA taps, and it has its own shortcomings. 

Many very smart people can't seem to understand that "war" and "economic war" and "propaganda war" are part of a continuum, not a set of stovepiped or discrete products.  This leads them to follow idiotic policies, and fight the last information war, as it were, sort of like using cavalry against attack helicopters. 

The problem of weak policy is no excuse to break the law.  :angry: 

I think President Bush's critics are going to milk this cow until it is dry, and will use it as leverage in the 2006 elections.  If a bit more comes to light on the dealings with Congress regarding the Iraq War, it could be enough to send him packing.

Should be interesting, particularly as he has been completely unapologetic about the wire tap.   

Who here is ready for Dick Cheney to be President?  :whistling:

Occhi
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Here's the act: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

I can't remember where it is in the act, but someone did point out to me that in the act is says that it is illegal to monitor a US citizen without a warrant which is what Bush has done, monitored US Citizens with connections to international terrorism without warrants from the court setup by FISA. Until Bush came along, there has been a warrant issued for each and every use of wire taps against US Citizens (one was retroactively applied, but was still asked for since there was a time sensitive need to get the information). So Bush broke the law involving FISA.

[Ashock]

I was under the impression he was from the Arkansan "anything that moves" school of lechery.  I may be mistaken, that might be the Prime Directive of his native cuisine.
Occhi
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Considering who he is married to, I'd have to agree with you.


-A

[Occhidiangela]

Here's the act:  Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

I can't remember where it is in the act, but someone did point out to me that in the act is says that it is illegal to monitor a US citizen without a warrant which is what Bush has done, monitored US Citizens with connections to international terrorism without warrants from the court setup by FISA.  Until Bush came along, there has been a warrant issued for each and every use of wire taps against US Citizens (one was retroactively applied, but was still asked for since there was a time sensitive need to get the information).  So Bush broke the law involving FISA.
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Apparently not. Apparently, the Clinton administration filed briefs in the mid 1990's (aftermath of the 1993 WTC bombing?) seeking relief from the warrants in the case of contacts with "citizens" by foreign nationals and got it. Don't have enough on that, will need to look into it tomorrow.

And I will ask you how you determine who is a citizen within US borders? By phone records? Do you have any idea how many non citizens live in this country. Well over 10 million. Not all domestic phone calls are necessarily being made by citizens, but rather residents in this country, persons located inside the borders.

Which takes us to the real problem, which is the stovepipes between NSA and the FBI and why they are unable to coordinate so the FBI handles the domestic side.

This is a seam in regulation that is as blatant a strategic vulnerability in the Information WAr as an unprotected flank is on a battlefield.

I am still very uncomfortable about this, as what Pres Bush is asking is

"Trust me, I am looking out for civil liberties." Sorry, but won't buy a used car from that bunch.

That said, I find that our laws and processes are

COMPLETELY UNSAT

for waging Fourth Generation Warfare, which includes Information Warfare. If you've ever heard of William Lind, he's at it again, out ahead of the mainstream.

Fourth Generation Warfare. Worth a look.

Occhi