Real world money for game items(take 2)

[Guest]

A while ago we had a disscussion on this following Sonys implemtation of a system to trade virtual items for real money.

Some people here thought that it was a wise step foward. I and others thought it was a step toward ruining the game/fun aspect of MMORPs.

This artical addresses an issue that seems to strongly support Blizzes position that it its best for the game company to maintain ownership of all virtual property and to prohibit trades for real money.

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January...ll_janfeb06.msp

[--Pete]

Hi,

== snipped ==
[right][snapback]98907[/snapback][/right]

What a crock of crap. Picasso sells his paintings for millions. So, if I do a paint-by-numbers, I should have to pay taxes on its *potential* worth? Steven King gets big bucks for his writings. So I should pay a few thousand in taxes for each of my posts?

There is a big difference between something potentially valuable (a unsold painting, book, online character, etc.) and income. And anyone stupid enough not to realize this isn't worth their weight in fertilizer (and probably works for the IRS as well).

Sometimes I think Jefferson was right -- we should guillotine everyone in government every generation or so and start over. Might not give us better government, but it's bound to increase the average intelligence.

--Pete

[Chesspiece_face]

Although i respect the author for bringing up a possible point of contention in the evolving MMO market the taxation of online items is not something that is feasable with the present legal oversite of online games. Who am i supposed to be paying taxes to? If i play WoW in germany but on an american server am i then supposed to pay american taxes because my items are stored in america? If i do obtain one of these items in such a scenario do i then have to pay an export charge? where does this go? and where does it end?

These are global markets and the same thing that keeps blizzard or any other game developer from claiming ownership over the users is the same thing that will keep taxation of these items and goods from becoming a reality for a very long time. There are just too many opposing legal systems spread across many sovereign territories for any sort of universal regulation to take place.

[cheezz]

If nothing else, I'm guessing that any profits you make can have capital gains taxes assessed.

I realize that you don't own the imaginary item, but you do own the right to use that item, and that is what you are selling.

Just remember, they can only levy taxes on income they can prove you receive. ;)

[Guest]

Well of course. Thats real income so there is no debate that its taxable. The article seemed to make that clear though.

[whyBish]

[right][snapback]98907[/snapback][/right]

Cheers for an intersting read...
but that hurt my head :)

[Occhidiangela]

A while ago we had a disscussion on this following Sonys implemtation of a system to trade virtual items for real money.

Some people here thought that it was a wise step foward. I and others thought it was a step toward ruining the game/fun aspect of MMORPs.

This artical addresses an issue that seems to strongly support Blizzes position that it its best for the game company to maintain ownership of all virtual property and to prohibit trades for real money.

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January...ll_janfeb06.msp
[right][snapback]98907[/snapback][/right]

1. This quote made the article worth reading. :)

"I don't think we're recognizing Dungeon and Dragon [sic] currency as legal tender."

2. I found the barter club and IRS reaction tidbit both interesting and disappointing. <_<

3. Your error rate needs work. :( The "Preview Post" button is an included feature at the Lounge for a reason. Please use it.

Occhi

EDIT: Comma splicing

[jahcs]

Evil plan to suck as much money for the system as possible: Tax game companies for the manufacture and distribution of these virtual items at time of initial "barter."

Timeline:
1. Player enters server
2. Player completes quest
3. Special item spawns
4. Item is transfered to player's account
5. Tax the game company at point of sale based on estimated value of item on open market
6. Company charges player the taxes
7. Server does a "roll back" and the item disapears
8. Customer is out real world money for an imaginary item he/she was in fact "renting" for $13.99 a month that the game company will accept no responsibility for according to their EULA


Next evil plan: Figure out how to establish a monetary value for memories and an appropriate charge for each time they are recalled. Most people regard their memories as priceless so we can make a fortune!

[Occhidiangela]

Most people regard their memories as priceless so we can make a fortune!
[right][snapback]98973[/snapback][/right]

In Pamela Anderson's case, she and her agent may regard her mammaries as priceless: I'd guess she has them insured. Should she be taxed on the "priceless" amount per the dream model (versus the lingerie model), the insured asset amount (her asset is probably insuredet as wellet :P ), or only on the improvements to real property undertaken by various Hollywood surgeons? :blink:

What is the marginal tax rate (Schedule D-cup) on such enhancements? Is the depreciation based on gravity or elasticity?

I begin to understand how accountants stay busy in the boom and bust world of Hollywood stars. :rolleyes:

Occhi

[Guest]

Seriously why dont you stay off my threads.

You made bit of <moderated> out of yourself last time making a mistake accussing me of something I didnt do.

I wont complain ig your going to be only a mod when you talk to me, but if your going to get involved with the thread and be a mod - just dont.

As you showed last time, you too easily pull out the mod stick when your not happy with the substance.

[jahcs]

Seriously why dont you stay off my threads.

You made bit of <moderated> out of yourself last time making a mistake accussing me of something I didnt do.

I wont complain ig your going to be only a mod when you talk to me, but if your going to get involved with the thread and be a mod - just dont.

As you showed last time, you too easily pull out the mod stick when your not happy with the substance.
[right][snapback]98976[/snapback][/right]

2 things I will point out:

1. This sort of thing might be better taken to PM.

2. I view the threads on the Lurker Lounge as "ours" not the individual authors. Credit for starting the thread, and every individual member's posts, goes to their authors, of course, but not complete ownership of topics or threads.

[Guest]

Let me rephrase.


I would prefer Occhi did not adress me except as a mod. Because he uses his modship to make an unfair field in the cases that I would disagree with him.

[Bolty]

So I should pay a few thousand in taxes for each of my posts?[right][snapback]98908[/snapback][/right]

Wait, I think Pete's on to something here. We should explore this. :)

-Bolty

[Occhidiangela]

Seriously why dont you stay off my threads.

[right][snapback]98976[/snapback][/right]

I won't, and there is nothing you can do about it. I would do this whether or not I were an Admin (I am not a Mod on this part of the board) which is what I chose to do for the Net 54 forums. I have been playing Grammarian for about 5 years. Your request that I stop doing so is denied.

Deal with it.

Your posting style lends itself to correction. The best way to get me off your back is to clean up your act. You assertion of me hiding behind some status is an ignorant assumption on your part.

Further comments you and I can PM.

Occhi

PS: Your assertion with the reason for Grammarian activity is related to the substance of your posts, rather than style, is false. Indeed, I have noted more than once that I find your substance and ideas to be of interest, but that your style of delivery is maddeningly sloppy and careless.

[Occhidiangela]

Let me rephrase.
I would prefer Occhi did not adress me except as a mod. Because he uses his modship to make an unfair field in the cases that I would disagree with him.
[right][snapback]98981[/snapback][/right]

That is either an error or a bald faced lie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and write it off as an error, based on

"Where you sit determines what you see."

I hide behind nothing.

Occhi

[Malakar]

I can see it now... an IRS employee discovers MMOs... and a duping exploit. :huh:



I finally know where that damn 5% auction house cut goes. ;)

[Guest]

I am not allowed to point out your mistakes because you are mod - per Griz.


If you want to correct my grammer and spelling - thats fine. But please dont speak to me on the substance of my posts(you did both in one post here.)

Its not fair.

You go after me on spelling/grammer/posting methods when you are unhappy with where I am going with my ideas. If I defend myself I get in trouble for talking back to a mod.

So sence you feel the need to be a mod and correct me, please do talk about substance with me, just be a mod. That way you wont get carried away like you did in the last thread.

[Artega]

I probably shouldn't make this worse than it is, but I remember seeing this as a rule or guideline on one of the forums I peruse (and, hell, it may have been in the LL forum rules), but it went like this:

The mods may not always be right, but they are never wrong.

Occhi's not making a special case out of you; it's just that you're leaving yourself wide open for it, with punctuation and spelling errors all over the place.

[Artega]

Wait, I think Pete's on to something here.&nbsp; We should explore this.&nbsp; :)

-Bolty
[right][snapback]98987[/snapback][/right]

You're evil.

[Occhidiangela]

I am not allowed to point out your mistakes because you are mod - per Griz.
If you want to correct my grammer and spelling - thats fine. But please dont speak to me on the substance of my posts(you did both in one post here.)

Its not fair.

You go after me on spelling/grammer/posting methods when you are unhappy with where I am going with my ideas. If I defend myself I get in trouble for talking back to a mod.

So sence you feel the need to be a mod and correct me, please do talk about substance with me, just be a mod. That way you wont get carried away like you did in the last thread.
[right][snapback]99174[/snapback][/right]

Request denied. We had an argument, move on, put it behind you.

Occhi