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MongoJerry,Feb 26 2006, 05:34 PM Wrote:Ah, I love shadow focus too much. It makes Mind Control so much better -- much more reliable and the mobs stay controled so much longer. Since MC is one of my favorite skills, I consider it a personal must. I can understand if someone else not getting it if they don't use MC as much as I do, though. However, I personally think Spirit Tap is a waste at level 60. How often do you get the killing blow in a party or raid? Even if you get the killing blow, the mana regeneration isn't big. Plus, f it's at the end of a fight, you can just drink. Plus, the mana regeneration is most important in long boss fights, so it would seem like Spirit Tap would only be useful in those fights where there are lots of small adds and where you're fighting rather than healing. That doesn't happen very often for me. I guess I just don't see Spirit Tap being useful for anything other than solo farming to reduce downtime between pulls.
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I think Genkar uses Spirit Tap for PvP. He gets LOTS of KBs in there.
--Mav
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Mavfin,Feb 27 2006, 11:54 AM Wrote:I think Genkar uses Spirit Tap for PvP. He gets LOTS of KBs in there.
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Mav's right. Ever since I got above +300 damage on my priest, I seemed to have hit that 'magical point' where I get a LOT of KBs. I routinely am taking top 5 (if not top 1) in AV, and am routinely highest in WSG. Just yesterday, while facing one of the horde PvP guilds, we pulled out a 3-2 victory, and I had 22 KBs, 2 deaths. The next highest was 12 KBs .. I mostly played 'flag carrier secret service', peeling off and destroying the guys who were trying to get at the flag carrier.
Plus, it'd be nice to see how many KBs I get in things like MC ;)
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Flymo,Feb 27 2006, 11:45 AM Wrote:Spiritual Guidance is particularly pathetic if you work out what it actually gives you[right][snapback]103083[/snapback][/right]
While I agree that it stinks that Spiritual Healing is harder to get now, I want to disagree with your point about Spiritual Guidance.
A raid-buffed priest with healing-oriented gear can probably expect to have 350-500 spirit. This means +87 to +125 healing from the SG talent. This is more than 10% of a Renew (rank 9, 810 HP). For flash heal it is +37 to +54 after the 43% multiplier, which is 4% to 6% of a rank 7 flash (885 HP average).
So Spiritual Guidance would give you between +5% and +10% to your healing spells, depending on which spells you use. This is weaker than, but comparable to, Spiritual Healing (flat 10%). On the other hand, SG will also give you +damage from your spirit.
So again, I agree that I'd prefer SH to SG, but at least SG isn't terrible.
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Xanthix,Feb 27 2006, 05:56 PM Wrote:While I agree that it stinks that Spiritual Healing is harder to get now, I want to disagree with your point about Spiritual Guidance.
A raid-buffed priest with healing-oriented gear can probably expect to have 350-500 spirit. This means +87 to +125 healing from the SG talent. This is more than 10% of a Renew (rank 9, 810 HP). For flash heal it is +37 to +54 after the 43% multiplier, which is 4% to 6% of a rank 7 flash (885 HP average).
So Spiritual Guidance would give you between +5% and +10% to your healing spells, depending on which spells you use. This is weaker than, but comparable to, Spiritual Healing (flat 10%). On the other hand, SG will also give you +damage from your spirit.
So again, I agree that I'd prefer SH to SG, but at least SG isn't terrible.
[right][snapback]103090[/snapback][/right] If you add in the extra from crits and + healing gear to Renew and Flash Heal, you will find that Spiritual Guidance increases them by rather less than 5-10%. And 500 Spirit is an unrealistic amount to expect a buffed priest with healing gear to have. But what Spiritual Guidance does have going for it is that the longer the fight the more you benefit from it.
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Flymo,Feb 28 2006, 08:08 AM Wrote:If you add in the extra from crits and + healing gear to Renew and Flash Heal, you will find that Spiritual Guidance increases them by rather less than 5-10%. And 500 Spirit is an unrealistic amount to expect a buffed priest with healing gear to have. But what Spiritual Guidance does have going for it is that the longer the fight the more you benefit from it.
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Well, crits and +healing do not affect the bonus from Spiritual Guidance, but they don't affect the bonus from Spiritual Healing either - for healing, percentage bonuses are applied first, then flat bonuses like +healing. So SG may give you less than 5-10% in practice, but then so will SH, which is what I was comparing it to.
As for the 500 spirit claim, I disagree. I have 460 spirit with raid buffs (including Kings), and that's with only 3 purples, and no spirit on my rings or cape. I think 350 spirit is very obtainable by any priest focusing on spit gear, and I have heard many reports of people hitting 450-500 when decked out in purples. Don't forget to drink your http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35818 :)
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Xanthix,Feb 28 2006, 11:13 AM Wrote:As for the 500 spirit claim, I disagree. I have 460 spirit with raid buffs (including Kings), and that's with only 3 purples, and no spirit on my rings or cape. I think 350 spirit is very obtainable by any priest focusing on spit gear, and I have heard many reports of people hitting 450-500 when decked out in purples. Don't forget to drink your http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35818 :)
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Well, are you a Spirit build? I decked my Priest out in all mana/5sec and +heal gear from DM so I have about 280 Spirit buffed with both MotW and DS. The only way I see making SG be worth it is to sacrifice other stats which, in my opinion, wouldn't make it worth it. Actually, once you get to raiding, you don't have a choice what gear you use, really. So if Proph and Trans have Spirit, yay for them :P
"Just as individuals are born, mature, breed and die, so do societies, civilizations and governments."
Muad'Dib - Children of Dune
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ima_nerd,Feb 28 2006, 12:26 PM Wrote:Well, are you a Spirit build? I decked my Priest out in all mana/5sec and +heal gear from DM so I have about 280 Spirit buffed with both MotW and DS.
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Yes, I tend to focus on spirit for boss fights at least, since we use healing rotations and I can be out of the 5-second rule for 50% of the fight. I don't know how much spirit Proph has since it refuses to drop for me. :)
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Well I've spent several days thinking about the priest talent changes. When I first looked at them I was literally drooling. It's true that healing specced priests now have some very nice improvements to solo and PvP play. I'm thrilled to get Holy Nova so cheaply, and happy to get Holy Fire back (limited usefulness, but I just like my column of fire into the sky).
But when it comes down to the pure PvE healing role what we mostly got is:
1. Much faster cast times (and therefore HPS) for Greater Heal
2. Efficiency nerf (can't get Mental Strength and Spiritual Healing)
Hopefully #1 makes up for #2.
The Holy tree is frustrating me, due to the rich talents high in the tree and the dearth of things in tier 3. Since I'm pretty much limited to 20 man raids and below, inspiration is ok (I have it now) but not stellar, and I feel like I've got a lot of 'meh' points in trying to get down to Spirit of Redemption, Improved PoH, Spiritual Guidance, and Spiritual Healing.
The fact that I can't seem to come up with a build that gives me Divine Spirit and maxes Spiritual Guidance and Spiritual Healing is aggravating me.
I love the concept of the Spiritual Guidance talent -- it's exactly the kind of thing needed to help boost spirit for more than big raids. It just feels like it isn't quite enough.
Perhaps it's a sign of good design that I can't make up my mind... but there is a lot of meh in the lower holy tree it feels like.
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03-03-2006, 11:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2006, 11:41 AM by Flymo.)
vor_lord,Mar 2 2006, 05:05 PM Wrote:But when it comes down to the pure PvE healing role what we mostly got is:
1. Much faster cast times (and therefore HPS) for Greater Heal
2. Efficiency nerf (can't get Mental Strength and Spiritual Healing)
Hopefully #1 makes up for #2.[right][snapback]103393[/snapback][/right] Don't forget the 10% reduction in mana cost of greater heal - that does more to compensate for the loss of Mental Strength than Spiritual Guidance does imo. I felt a lot better about my about-to-be-reduced mana pool when I noticed that change.
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This is what my current prospective PvE/PvP build that I'll be going ahead with, I believe. It's a decently well-rounded build, and I think fits, at least, my playstyle.
The most important thing is that it involves every piece of aggro reduction that could happen.
PvE/PvP Shadow Build
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Flymo,Mar 3 2006, 04:41 AM Wrote:Don't forget the 10% reduction in mana cost of greater heal - that does more to compensate for the loss of Mental Strength than Spiritual Guidance does imo. I felt a lot better about my about-to-be-reduced mana pool when I noticed that change.
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Oh this is on the base skill? I forgot about that!
That is nice. Plus I currently don't have the 15% mana cost reduction on Greater Heal so I'll see a big change in efficiency for it.
You've made me feel better!
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